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Ginger Bakers rebel army

Would 14 team top division benefit Saints?

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19 hours ago, TheMarkChristie said:

2 Leagues of 20 then split out into Highland League and Lowland League below that.

There are enough full times to sustain a 20 team league and the top 5 of the next division could be full time as well

I don't think that would work in Scotland. The gulf in standard between top and bottom would be huge (so the OF would dish out even bigger hammerings than they do already), there'd be a big increase in meaningless mid-season games (especially with Scotland's lack of European places), and the reduction in Old Firm games would make it a non-starter. I also think you'd have to make big allowances for smaller clubs with poor facilities, small grounds and part-time squads being allowed into the top flight, because if you go 20 clubs down you'll start to have clubs like Arbroath, Alloa, East Fife, Montrose etc playing in the Premier League.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

I don't think that would work in Scotland. The gulf in standard between top and bottom would be huge (so the OF would dish out even bigger hammerings than they do already), there'd be a big increase in meaningless mid-season games (especially with Scotland's lack of European places), and the reduction in Old Firm games would make it a non-starter. I also think you'd have to make big allowances for smaller clubs with poor facilities, small grounds and part-time squads being allowed into the top flight, because if you go 20 clubs down you'll start to have clubs like Arbroath, Alloa, East Fife, Montrose etc playing in the Premier League.

 

 

What’s wrong with Arbroath, etc? Montrose have already shown they can compete with us :)

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On 1/12/2020 at 1:35 PM, Ginger Bakers rebel army said:

With around 7million extra TV money from next season I think this would be the ideal time for 3 divisions of 14 teams. 

Play each other once, equals 26 games then split 7 and 7 playing each other home and away to make a further 12 games, total 38.

Retain a down 1 up and the playoffs. 

Bottom 7 in top division loose 1 old firm home game but this is more than compensated from the increased prize money. 

If you make the top 7 you are guaranteed 2 further old firm home games. 

2 additional teams would mean additional grounds to visit which has to be a good thing. 

From saints point of view, we are so established in the top division this structure would secure our top flight status for many years to come. 

It would create a level playing field on matches played and would increase the likelihood of more local derbies which would be a great thing. 

With a 7 and 7 split there is incentive all season to finish as high as possible. 

Below the top division there would be 2 new divisions of 14teams each. 

Relegation could be cancelled this year and the top 2 from the championship promoted. 

What do you think? 

3 leagues of 14 could happen if this seasons fixtures cannot be completed. 

Only going to take one team to pick up the virus and not be able to complete its fixtures. 

Here's hoping any teams affected are all OK but I would love to see 3 divisions of 14.

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Just me who has absolutely no idea why you're so excited about adding two more teams to the league?

Youd still have the issue of playing the same teams 4 times a season in the league, youd have the prize money being split between more clubs, so the increased prize money would barely be noticed. Youd have a bigger "dead zone" in the middle of the league, especially with having the split earlier (for example, in your scenario our season would already be over and we'd simply be playing to finish 7th).

I just dont understand why it's so exciting?

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Playing each other 3 times before a split is a ridiculous situation. I read if the top 6 remain the same Celtic are due to play all 5 at home which cannot happen. They have a split here in Cyprus. The 12 teams play each other home and away then split 6 and 6 and play each again other home and away. That is  32 games 6 less than the SPFL. If the SPFL want more games increase the league to 20 and play each other home and away. One other division and the others regional leagues. But that will not happen as the game is driven by money.

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13 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Just me who has absolutely no idea why you're so excited about adding two more teams to the league?

Youd still have the issue of playing the same teams 4 times a season in the league, youd have the prize money being split between more clubs, so the increased prize money would barely be noticed. Youd have a bigger "dead zone" in the middle of the league, especially with having the split earlier (for example, in your scenario our season would already be over and we'd simply be playing to finish 7th).

I just dont understand why it's so exciting?

Increased variety of teams to play, more local derby's and more stability. 

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3 minutes ago, Johnny B said:

Playing each other 3 times before a split is a ridiculous situation. I read if the top 6 remain the same Celtic are due to play all 5 at home which cannot happen. They have a split here in Cyprus. The 12 teams play each other home and away then split 6 and 6 and play each again other home and away. That is  32 games 6 less than the SPFL. If the SPFL want more games increase the league to 20 and play each other home and away. One other division and the others regional leagues. But that will not happen as the game is driven by money.

Of course Celtic wont play all 5 games at home. We dont have enough full time teams for a 20 team division, youd end up with Arbroath/East Fife/Dumbarton sides arriving for a season then being papped out fairly quickly. Relegation wouldn't be an issue for most sides.

3 minutes ago, Ginger Bakers rebel army said:

Increased variety of teams to play, more local derby's and more stability. 

I just dont see it, after a season or two it would be the same old grind.

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31 minutes ago, Johnny B said:

Playing each other 3 times before a split is a ridiculous situation. I read if the top 6 remain the same Celtic are due to play all 5 at home which cannot happen. They have a split here in Cyprus. The 12 teams play each other home and away then split 6 and 6 and play each again other home and away. That is  32 games 6 less than the SPFL. If the SPFL want more games increase the league to 20 and play each other home and away. One other division and the others regional leagues. But that will not happen as the game is driven by money.

Agree current set up is madness, top 20 would not work for TV money as they insist on 4 ugly sister games. 

3 leagues of 14 could work and gets rid of the 3 game pre split nonsense of the current set up. 

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28 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Of course Celtic wont play all 5 games at home. We dont have enough full time teams for a 20 team division, youd end up with Arbroath/East Fife/Dumbarton sides arriving for a season then being papped out fairly quickly. Relegation wouldn't be an issue for most sides.

I just dont see it, after a season or two it would be the same old grind.

Current set up is just not fair, 14 teams would sort that out, has to be better than what we have just now. 

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There could be a massive problem with 14, if it splits of 7/7. A team would have a free week. The team missing out on the last round could lose a position on goal difference as the team playing in the last round then knows what they have to do. Also if they know they need a win they will go all out for that win. That is why the last games of the season all start at the same time.

The league needs to have an even split if 14 teams top 8 and bottom 6 giving but that is too many games or are you talk about no split just 26 games.

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17 minutes ago, Johnny B said:

There could be a massive problem with 14, if it splits of 7/7. A team would have a free week. The team missing out on the last round could lose a position on goal difference as the team playing in the last round then knows what they have to do. Also if they know they need a win they will go all out for that win. That is why the last games of the season all start at the same time.

The league needs to have an even split if 14 teams top 8 and bottom 6 giving but that is too many games or are you talk about no split just 26 games.

Top 6 and bottom 8

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UK Government due to make new announcement today. Apparently they are not going to ban large outdoor events yet (LOTS of criticism of this, so it might not last). 

Meanwhile, individual clubs are starting to be affected. Some Arsenal players are in isolation, and their game was postponed the other night, and Real Madrid have just announced they are affected, and their CL game will be off. A couple of EL games are off because of restrictions in the countries concerned, and at least one club has said they won’t be travelling regardless if the game is on or not. So as someone said above, decisions may need to be taken simply because so many clubs have lost players, irrespective of any overriding Government action. Cup competitions, for example, can’t progress if much of an earlier round hasn’t been played, and with the end of the season fast approaching, where are the alternative dates to come from?

I wonder if they might cancel the Euros, and use the summer to catch up? Money, as always, will speak the loudest.

Ireland just this minute have banned large outdoor events (ie top level football).

Edited by Abernethy Saint

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3 hours ago, Ginger Bakers rebel army said:

Increased variety of teams to play, more local derby's and more stability. 

Yes, I think for any league to be really successful, there needs to be the safety of mid-table for some teams. You have to be able to look up and aspire to the next stage. At the moment, if you're not one of the Big 4 or 5, you're preparing for relegation every season, trying not to get beaten, defensive football, etc. etc.

Any league next season might just be made up of whatever teams have survived the lack of earnings over the next month. This will push come clubs over the edge.

Edited by Linky
x

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The set-up we have isn't entirely fair because of the potential for playing uneven numbers of home/away matches, but to be honest I think it's as good as we're going to get. The 14/20-team solutions suggested on here don't sound better or feasible to me. 

I was sceptical about the idea for the split when it was introduced, but have to say it's really won me over. It means pretty much everyone has something to play for,  and yet again this season we're seeing a really exciting race to make Top 6. Up until the split was introduced, no fan really cared whether or not their team finished bottom of the top half or bottom of the top half.

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44 minutes ago, Ginger Bakers rebel army said:

A system that allows for a club to have 3 home or 3 away games against a rival is unfair. 

But your system could see 3 teams facing relegation on the final day, and one of them not even playing.

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Never really looked at 3 game system as being unfair before the split.  I agree it is unfair as we are playing against Hibs for 6 place and will have played them once at home and twice away. That must be an advantage to HIbs

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2 hours ago, Johnny B said:

Never really looked at 3 game system as being unfair before the split.  I agree it is unfair as we are playing against Hibs for 6 place and will have played them once at home and twice away. That must be an advantage to HIbs

We've only lose once in our last six visits to Easter Road, winning twice.

2012/13 was the last time Hibs beat St Johnstone there in the league.

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4 minutes ago, Ginger Bakers rebel army said:

Seven seven split developed into top 6 and bottom 8 to avoid this situation, per previous posts. 

So you think its fairer that over half the league get ruled out the chance of qualifying for Europe after half a season?

And if the split was after 26 games, you want home/away for each side.

Top 6 would play 36 games, while the bottom 8 would play 40 games, over the course of the season. How is that fair?

Edited by RandomGuy

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6 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

So you think its fairer that over half the league get ruled out the chance of qualifying for Europe after half a season?

And if the split was after 26 games, you want home/away for each side.

Top 6 would play 36 games, while the bottom 8 would play 40 games, over the course of the season. How is that fair?

It's  not.

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