Saints Summer 2020 Transfers & Contracts

[rickardo]

1 hour ago, THE LARK SAINT said:

Na its bollocks!

So that’s that then ? It’s bollocks .

[THE LARK SAINT]

1 minute ago, rickardo said:

So that’s that then ? It’s bollocks .

I think so 

[Johnny B]

11 hours ago, THE LARK SAINT said:

Chris Kane 750  Shite!! Jamie McCart 750 that's a good ane!!

McCart went to Inverness (Championship) for the 2018–19 season, signing a two-year contract. As a 20 year old who had very few if any first team games for Celtic his salary would have been low. McCart signed a pre-contract agreement with St Johnstone in January 2020. Later in the month, Inverness and St Johnstone agreed a deal that allowed him to join the Saints immediately. having yet to prove himself at this level and desperate for a game in the Premiership, he may have signed for the wages stated,

Kane was on a 6 month contract and accepted a second 6 month contract he could have accepted the wage stated rather than be unemployed or into the Championship. 

[mainstand]

11 hours ago, Cleveland-Saint said:

Assume this site has no substance? Has Bryson almost exactly on what RBB quoted.

https://footballleaguefc.com/st-johnstone-fc-player-wages/

Zander quite rightly the highest paid and shows he can afford his spectacular Media Wall with Venetian finish.

There are a few reports that have been done over the last few years. Bases on that list our average weekly wage is £1097 which is about £300 less than the average weekly wage shown on a recent STV article. If you also look at Global sports research they showed Saints average salary as £63k a year. 

I don't even know if the players will know what each other are on. The figure being branded around for McCann is low and Rooney when he was at ICT was in court and quoted his wage at that time at £30k a year. 

[blueheaven]

15 hours ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

Average basic salary equates to around £1200-£1400 per week. Basic salaries aren’t a very good measure for Saints anyway. There are a VAST variety of bonuses, expenses and incentives  on offer which vary wildly from player to player.

 

I am of course, making this up 

I haven't seen anyone say you're making it up. I've seen people quite reasonably ask how you can be so sure of the figures you're presenting to us as fact, and you've repeatedly avoided responding to them. To people on here you're just a random anonymous name on a football forum - no one's going to just lap up what you're saying as gospel.

Personally I can't help but think that only a limited number of people are likely to know the true numbers and contractual details relating to individual players, and I'd really hope that those people would know better than to post them on here.

[blueheaven]

I don't really get all the people saying they'd release Parish - is Davidson really going to find someone better to be our back-up keeper? The only reason I'd get rid of him would be if I had a new number 1 in mind who was better than Clark.

[RandomGuy]

10 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

I don't really get all the people saying they'd release Parish - is Davidson really going to find someone better to be our back-up keeper? The only reason I'd get rid of him would be if I had a new number 1 in mind who was better than Clark.

Id be guessing Parish would want to go somewhere where he'll actually play. It's quite clear now he won't be first choice with us.

[Widge]

Depends on how Ross Sinclair is developing, obviously his playing time was brought to a halt with the lower leagues ceasing, but he must be back training with saints now full time. If he's looking capable of playing if required you'd think they'd promote him to replacement goalie and save on the senior wage, which I'm not against. Would mean little competition for Clark again, but in recent weeks it appears he's maybe screwed the nut and is showing he can be a decent keeper who doesn't make mistakes week in week out like he was.

[R.B.B:- Adz]

2 minutes ago, Widge said:

Depends on how Ross Sinclair is developing, obviously his playing time was brought to a halt with the lower leagues ceasing, but he must be back training with saints now full time. If he's looking capable of playing if required you'd think they'd promote him to replacement goalie and save on the senior wage, which I'm not against. Would mean little competition for Clark again, but in recent weeks it appears he's maybe screwed the nut and is showing he can be a decent keeper who doesn't make mistakes week in week out like he was.

I think you are probably right given the precarious financial situation in Scotland at the moment. However, I remember Tommy Wright talking about how important it was to have two top quality keepers fighting for one place(Zander Clark and Alan Mannus at that time). He also attributed Zanders successful rise to number 1 to the competition between he and Mannus.

Id like to see us get rid of Parish and bring in a genuine contender. It’s clear that Davidson doesn’t trust Parish as number 1, so he clearly isn’t good enough. That isn’t a positive for Saints or Zander.

[Abernethy Saint]

Even if these salary figures are correct, what do they mean by “salary”? There are at least 4 meanings.

1/ What a player actually gets as a baseline salary. Say, £10.

2/ Then add on any bonuses, legitimate expenses, etc. So say, on average, it goes up to £12.

3/ What the employer actually pays in total, after NIC, pension-matching etc. Say, £13.

4/ Then add on the wider costs of employment. Players need physios, trainers, coaches, a groundsman, etc etc. They probably want paid, too. And then there’s machinery, materials, maintenance etc. Say, a total of £20. Double the salary is the usual rule of thumb measure for the true cost of employing someone.

When setting a player budget, any Brown type will use 3/ as a minimum. Around 30% higher than headline salary figures. And if structural changes are being made to the squad size, eg in response to a pandemic, you can start eating into 4/. So letting go say 4 £75k players won’t save you just £300k - it could save you as much as £500k or more. 

But the point is, when you come to consider increasing the squad again, the same applies in reverse. So when you want Davidson to be allowed to sign a couple of players, bear in mind the actual, true costs of doing so. Up to double what some computer algorithm says they are being paid.

 

 

 

[Cagey]

16 minutes ago, Abernethy Saint said:

Even if these salary figures are correct, what do they mean by “salary”? There are at least 4 meanings.

1/ What a player actually gets as a baseline salary. Say, £10.

2/ Then add on any bonuses, legitimate expenses, etc. So say, on average, it goes up to £12.

3/ What the employer actually pays in total, after NIC, pension-matching etc. Say, £13.

4/ Then add on the wider costs of employment. Players need physios, trainers, coaches, a groundsman, etc etc. They probably want paid, too. And then there’s machinery, materials, maintenance etc. Say, a total of £20. Double the salary is the usual rule of thumb measure for the true cost of employing someone.

When setting a player budget, any Brown type will use 3/ as a minimum. Around 30% higher than headline salary figures. And if structural changes are being made to the squad size, eg in response to a pandemic, you can start eating into 4/. So letting go say 4 £75k players won’t save you just £300k - it could save you as much as £500k or more. 

But the point is, when you come to consider increasing the squad again, the same applies in reverse. So when you want Davidson to be allowed to sign a couple of players, bear in mind the actual, true costs of doing so. Up to double what some computer algorithm says they are being paid.

 

 

 

Glad to see you found something to do during lockdown .

[Pat McGroin]

17 hours ago, rickardo said:

I have it from a very good source that a certain Stevie May is on 4 grand a week .Dont ask me where I get this from as am no tellin ., but allegedly true .

I heard years ago that we had offered to make him our highest ever paid player before he went down south and offered him that sort of money. 
 

would be astounded if we were paying him that sort of basic now. 

[Abernethy Saint]

3 hours ago, Cagey said:

Glad to see you found something to do during lockdown .

Very true. Garden is covered in white stuff.

[Abernethy Saint]

53 minutes ago, Pat McGroin said:

I heard years ago that we had offered to make him our highest ever paid player before he went down south and offered him that sort of money. 
 

would be astounded if we were paying him that sort of basic now. 

See above. I’d say the full cost of employing him is at least 5k a week, on average.

[Linky]

7 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I don't really get all the people saying they'd release Parish - is Davidson really going to find someone better to be our back-up keeper? The only reason I'd get rid of him would be if I had a new number 1 in mind who was better than Clark.

My belief is that the perfect squad situation for a club of our size is eleven first team players, and 11 players who are younger and you think can make the grade in a few years time. I hope, for example, this is what we're thinking of for Gilmour: one or two seasons as a back-up midfielder (for Davidson?) and then progression to first-team regular. I'd say the same is needed for a goalkeeper. Most clubs seem to do the opposite and sign someone aged 32-35 as a back-up goalkeeper which makes no sense to me. In this sense, we sort of had the right idea with Wallace Duffy.

[RandomGuy]

1 hour ago, Pat McGroin said:

I heard years ago that we had offered to make him our highest ever paid player before he went down south and offered him that sort of money. 
 

would be astounded if we were paying him that sort of basic now. 

Steve Brown confirmed we made May an offer to be "our highest paid player ever", but never said what the actual number was. Also said we couldn't get near what Sheffield Wednesday eventually paid him.

I'm sure the rumour was that Mays agent (Rowan Vine) was pushing for that offer again last Summer, through either basic or then after bonuses that were almost guaranteed, and along with him constantly pushing for lower bonuses and higher basic every time Brown agreed to something, that's why the deal took so long/kept collapsing (and probably the final straw and why Brown hired Kirsten Robertson).

It was only after May sacked Vine that he ended up signing up.

I'd be surprised if he wasn't earning more than most of our squad, if not the most. He'd be earning a fortune at Aberdeen and would've had better offers than us when it was clear he could leave them.

[mainstand]

7 hours ago, Abernethy Saint said:

Even if these salary figures are correct, what do they mean by “salary”? There are at least 4 meanings.

1/ What a player actually gets as a baseline salary. Say, £10.

2/ Then add on any bonuses, legitimate expenses, etc. So say, on average, it goes up to £12.

3/ What the employer actually pays in total, after NIC, pension-matching etc. Say, £13.

4/ Then add on the wider costs of employment. Players need physios, trainers, coaches, a groundsman, etc etc. They probably want paid, too. And then there’s machinery, materials, maintenance etc. Say, a total of £20. Double the salary is the usual rule of thumb measure for the true cost of employing someone

 

It is an interesting thought that a company would include all of their fixed costs into a salary calculation. I suspect the salary as far as the players are concerned will be 1, similar to a basic salary of a worker before bonuses and shift allowance etc. 

[Abernethy Saint]

2 hours ago, mainstand said:

It is an interesting thought that a company would include all of their fixed costs into a salary calculation. I suspect the salary as far as the players are concerned will be 1, similar to a basic salary of a worker before bonuses and shift allowance etc. 

It’s common to consider full costs, at least notionally. Not in a salary calculation, but in a full cost calculation. Obviously, the player couldn’t care less about that. Why would he? In the Civil Service we had a notional figure at each grade for planning/budgeting purposes that was way, way, way above actual pay of even the highest paid at each grade. Folk don’t realise that basic salary is just a starting point.

Thats why, for example, contracting out (spit) is often much cheaper overall even when the contractor charges far more than the basic salary of the previous in-house guys.

So May might be on 3 or 3.5k, but that could well be costing Broon 4 - 5k. 

[mainstand]

11 hours ago, Abernethy Saint said:

It’s common to consider full costs, at least notionally. Not in a salary calculation, but in a full cost calculation. Obviously, the player couldn’t care less about that. Why would he? In the Civil Service we had a notional figure at each grade for planning/budgeting purposes that was way, way, way above actual pay of even the highest paid at each grade. Folk don’t realise that basic salary is just a starting point.

Thats why, for example, contracting out (spit) is often much cheaper overall even when the contractor charges far more than the basic salary of the previous in-house guys.

So May might be on 3 or 3.5k, but that could well be costing Broon 4 - 5k. 

It is common practice in budgeting to cover full cost allocation, having calculated the costs per grade for the civil service as part of my work many years ago we would include all of the various central services etc. but if advertising or  advising someone of their salary of would be purely basic wage. 

Yes contracting out is one are where evaluation is a great job. 

Certainly costing a lot more for any club over and above the basis with all the add ona 

[Cleveland-Saint]

do clubs or players carry any kind of special insurance or medical coverage for players?

[mainstand]

3 minutes ago, Cleveland-Saint said:

do clubs or players carry any kind of special insurance or medical coverage for players?

I think clubs will have medical insurance on players. I know at youth level a club has to insure players and have public liability insurance per team. Would think it would be similar at pro level

[Melbourne Saint]

59 minutes ago, mainstand said:

I think clubs will have medical insurance on players. I know at youth level a club has to insure players and have public liability insurance per team. Would think it would be similar at pro level

Yes to both. There are various insurance options from surgery, rehab, games/ payments lost. Not sure how much can be measured in any bonus payments though, presume just base. But it's mighty expensive to have ticked the box for salary compensation (and what % is covered). High profile players will often pay for their own surgeons. Because they're on £300k + a week.

[blueheaven]

Really, really hope we can get Melamed tied up for next season. I absolutely love watching him play and feel like he has the potential to go from strength to strength if he can get a pre-season under his belt with us.

Can't help but feel he'll already have been noticed by a good number of other British clubs.

[RandomGuy]

Current status in terms of contracts...

[Johnny B]

No need to rush, none of those going out of contract have been offered a pre contract. Most teams will be in the same boat with the uncertainty in the game, I sure by now CD will have identified those he wants to resign.