The big COVID-19 Shutdown

[RandomGuy]

2 hours ago, Pat McGroin said:

It’s in Tayside. It’s everywhere. It’s just not hospitalising people in the same numbers as Delta. 

Almost like giving people a vaccine works great tbh.

[Abernethy Saint]

10 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Almost like giving people a vaccine works great tbh.

Vaccines plus immunity from prior infections plus a less serious version of the virus. There’s a long way to go, but this might be the point that covid moves from being a pandemic (we’re all going to die) to an epidemic (granny might die, like a bad flu year, meh). The end of all or most restrictions might be in sight - as long as the NHS can cope.

[RandomGuy]

3 minutes ago, Abernethy Saint said:

Vaccines plus immunity from prior infections plus a less serious version of the virus. There’s a long way to go, but this might be the point that covid moves from being a pandemic (we’re all going to die) to an epidemic (granny might die, like a bad flu year, meh). The end of all or most restrictions might be in sight - as long as the NHS can cope.

It should be over already. The numbers are better than most flu seasons and if there wasn't this daft obsession with constant testing and restrictions then nobody would even be aware it wasn't just a flu going about.

[mainstand]

32 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

It should be over already. The numbers are better than most flu seasons and if there wasn't this daft obsession with constant testing and restrictions then nobody would even be aware it wasn't just a flu going about.

Feck sake your a epidemiologist now. Get your head out your arse folk in hospitals and in health boards are not working all the hours god sends to make things up. You really think if it was safe to let it run ragged and unrestricted we would still be enforcing restrictions. 

For God sake man get a life. 

[RandomGuy]

7 minutes ago, mainstand said:

Feck sake your a epidemiologist now. Get your head out your arse folk in hospitals and in health boards are not working all the hours god sends to make things up. You really think if it was safe to let it run ragged and unrestricted we would still be enforcing restrictions. 

For God sake man get a life. 

Yeah, folk at some hospitals are struggling because half the staff are having to isolate for 7-10 days and they're massively understaffed. I know that because I have family that work at a hospital. Most emergency doctors are having to help other departments.

There was 1 person in Scotland in ICU due to Covid throughout December. Less than 50% of hospital admissions are because of Covid.

Literally every year over the past decade there's been a paper story about the NHS struggling over winter. Due you think we should just lockdown the entire country for 2 months every year from now on?

England have far less restrictions than Scotland but, per head in the population, are seeing less cases. Maybe take a second to think that forcing everyone to stay in a house with an infected person for 7-10 days is more likely to spread the virus? Everyone will get it eventually, you literally cannot control an airborne virus much better than vaccines.

Edited January 9, 2022 by RandomGuy

[dunblanemike]

7 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Yeah, folk at some hospitals are struggling because half the staff are having to isolate for 7-10 days and they're massively understaffed. I know that because I have family that work at a hospital. Most emergency doctors are having to help other departments.

There was 1 person in Scotland in ICU due to Covid throughout December. Less than 50% of hospital admissions are because of Covid.

Literally every year over the past decade there's been a paper story about the NHS struggling over winter. Due you think we should just lockdown the entire country for 2 months every year from now on?

Hmmm, let’s fact check that. I person in ICU in December? I can only assume you mean in Tayside as up to yesterday 19 patients had been in ICU for more than 28 days across Scotland.  
 

where has MS suggested lockdown every year? There is a vast difference between a lockdown and sensible health measures, you know that of course but are being typically obtuse. 

[RandomGuy]

3 minutes ago, dunblanemike said:

Hmmm, let’s fact check that. I person in ICU in December? I can only assume you mean in Tayside as up to yesterday 19 patients had been in ICU for more than 28 days across Scotland.  

Yes, but how many just for Covid?

You realise other illnesses are still happening don't you? They've been recording hospital trips and deaths as "covid cases" as long as the person has tested positive within 28 days of going in.

As in, I could test positive today, then fall down a set of stairs next month and be rushed to ICU, and that would be classed as Covid related.

It's a farce now and there's no need for restrictions to be as severe as they are as its literally helping nobody.

[RandomGuy]

8 minutes ago, dunblanemike said:

where has MS suggested lockdown every year? There is a vast difference between a lockdown and sensible health measures, you know that of course but are being typically obtuse. 

The virus isn't going away. It can't until the vast majority of the planet has been vaccinated which is years away if it happens at all.

All we've seen in retaliation to a new variant from the Scottish Government is severe restrictions brought in. What makes you think that we won't see a different variant every winter and the same restrictions brought in every time?

[Pat McGroin]

40% of hospital Covid admissions were discovered to have Covid coincidentally on arrival, whilst in for something else so numbers aren’t all black and white. 

[Broggy Man]

I kind of agree with @RandomGuy here the way we are reporting deaths especially is nuts. It has been questioned by the professionals. The fact remains test positive on Monday have a car accident on Tuesday and your added to to covid death figures makes no sense.

even the hospital figures no say that the covid figures in hospital are 60% the other 40% are there for other reasons but have covid.

the government biggest problem is the position changes and us poor fools just can’t work out what they are trying to do. On Friday we had professor bauld saying take lateral flow tests on day 6 and 7 and Gillian ainsley saying you can’t use lateral flow tests for 90 days clear as mud

[RandomGuy]

My main issue is the restrictions.

If people/business decide they want to enforce mask wearing/social distancing upon themselves/customers then that's fine. Everyone needs to feel comfortable and I daresay there's people that now need masks/social distancing to be able to go to public places. 

I just don't understand why they government are forcing some arbitrary restrictions on everyone when there's both virtually zero danger to the vast majority or proof that it actually works.

I genuinely think they'll do this every winter now when flu cases fly up.

[Pat McGroin]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy said:

My main issue is the restrictions.

If people/business decide they want to enforce mask wearing/social distancing upon themselves/customers then that's fine. Everyone needs to feel comfortable and I daresay there's people that now need masks/social distancing to be able to go to public places. 

I just don't understand why they government are forcing some arbitrary restrictions on everyone when there's both virtually zero danger to the vast majority or proof that it actually works.

I genuinely think they'll do this every winter now when flu cases fly up.

I disagree, I think this will be our last winter with any notable restrictions but I do expect mask wearing to continue much like it has in Asia over the last 20 years. Mask wearing and hand washing has massively reduced cold and flu spread, I think that might influence people going forward. 
 

I can understand governments jumping the gun with Omicron, rather than move too late like the Tories did in March 2020. 
 

I think they had to move quickly and it was a case of “better safe than sorry”, but with annual booster / variant vaccines combined with widespread antibodies, hopefully things shouldn’t get worse than they are now and we’ll continue to improve treatments and understand more about virus spread in the coming months and years.

[RandomGuy]

5 minutes ago, Pat McGroin said:

I think they had to move quickly and it was a case of “better safe than sorry”.

There's doing that, and there's shutting down an entire country, ****ing hundreds of businesses over during the most important part of their year, plus pushing back treatments for other diseases, before you'd even learned what the new variant was about.

It had pretty much burnt itself out in South Africa after a matter of weeks. England is showing the exact same signs with cases plummeting since the turn of the year. While up here our businesses have no financial support, have missed their Christmas funds, the virus is expected to stay around longer as we're stretching it out, more people are getting the virus, and we're still effectively in a lockdown.

What was the benefit? There's no variant that can appear that can destroy the vaccines, that's not how it works. 

[andrew]

My issue is the lack of transparency in and the withholding of government data. How many in hospital and icu solely because of covid? How many of those are vaccinated/unvaccinated? Selecting two health boards and publishing their data may be a politically motivated attempt to keep us guessing and keep us divided. Without accurate and true national figures answering my two questions I am unable to assess whether restrictions are proportionate or disproportionate. None of us can. As ever, the politicians are playing politics. I don’t trust them. And they’ve shut me out of football too.

[Abernethy Saint]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy said:

Yes, but how many just for Covid?

You realise other illnesses are still happening don't you? They've been recording hospital trips and deaths as "covid cases" as long as the person has tested positive within 28 days of going in.

As in, I could test positive today, then fall down a set of stairs next month and be rushed to ICU, and that would be classed as Covid related.

It's a farce now and there's no need for restrictions to be as severe as they are as its literally helping nobody.

This bollocks is an anti-vaxxer myth that has been debunked endlessly. If you die falling down stairs, your death certificate does not show you died of a virus. Grow up.

[Abernethy Saint]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy said:

The virus isn't going away. It can't until the vast majority of the planet has been vaccinated which is years away if it happens at all.

All we've seen in retaliation to a new variant from the Scottish Government is severe restrictions brought in. What makes you think that we won't see a different variant every winter and the same restrictions brought in every time?

“Severe restrictions” = table service in pubs.

The horror…..the horror……

[RandomGuy]

1 minute ago, Abernethy Saint said:

This bollocks is an anti-vaxxer myth that has been debunked endlessly. If you die falling down stairs, your death certificate does not show you died of a virus. Grow up.

They've quite clearly been fiddling the figures m8.

They claimed they'd show data from December, split between actual covid cases and incidental covid cases, on Friday. They didn't, then later produced figures from just two days from December from the busiest hospitals to try and prove their point.

I'm a million miles away from an anti-vaxxer. I just refuse to believe the pish the Scottish Government are feeding us to justify their decisions.

[RandomGuy]

1 minute ago, Abernethy Saint said:

“Severe restrictions” = table service in pubs.

The horror…..the horror……

The irony of this whilst you post on a football forum, based around a club who have been ****ed over for the past 12 months with hospitality issues and crowd size issues, and who had to cancel events held at the stadium over Christmas due to restrictions brought in yet didn't receive any compensation for it.

[Abernethy Saint]

Just now, RandomGuy said:

The irony of this whilst you post on a football forum, based around a club who have been ****ed over for the past 12 months with hospitality issues and crowd size issues, and who had to cancel events held at the stadium over Christmas due to restrictions brought in yet didn't receive any compensation for it.

So you think full crowds should have been allowed 12 months ago? No restrictions on sizes of gatherings at all? A year ago? 
 

Barking mad. 

[RandomGuy]

Just now, Abernethy Saint said:

So you think full crowds should have been allowed 12 months ago? No restrictions on sizes of gatherings at all? A year ago? 
 

Barking mad. 

Not a year ago now, was the vaccine even out then?

In the past 12 months the Government has ****ed over businesses though. Demanding a variety of different things without any funding to support that or guarantees of what comes. They announced New Year's restrictions then handed out no guidelines or compensation. It's a farce.

Im fully aware you're an SNP supporter and as such need to defend them, but even you can surely see restrictions just now are pointless and are just causing harm? It's helping nobody.

[blueheaven]

1 hour ago, Pat McGroin said:

I disagree, I think this will be our last winter with any notable restrictions but I do expect mask wearing to continue much like it has in Asia over the last 20 years. Mask wearing and hand washing has massively reduced cold and flu spread, I think that might influence people going forward. 

I'd love it if you were right about that but I think people have already gone back to their filthy old ways. Any trip to the loo during a Saints game will show you that there are a *lot* of people who can't be arsed to wash their hands. People really are minging.

Of course it would help if football grounds and other public places actually bothered to make sure there was always hot water and soap available.

Personally I think it should be the cultural norm that if people have Covid, or the flu, or even just a regular cold, they should wear a mask in public spaces - but if that shift is not going to happen now, after the last couple of years we've been through, then it never will.

[Abernethy Saint]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy said:

Not a year ago now, was the vaccine even out then?

In the past 12 months the Government has ****ed over businesses though. Demanding a variety of different things without any funding to support that or guarantees of what comes. They announced New Year's restrictions then handed out no guidelines or compensation. It's a farce.

Im fully aware you're an SNP supporter and as such need to defend them, but even you can surely see restrictions just now are pointless and are just causing harm? It's helping nobody.

I’m not an SNP supporter, and even if I was, would absolutely not feel any “need” to defend them on every issue. 

If we go back to my original post today, there’s actually little between us. We clearly are at the point where we can BEGIN to think about living with COVID. Some people think we are already there, others think we are not quite yet. You clearly begin in the former camp, which is fine. When we look back in a few years, this difference will be of no importance whatsoever to the big picture.

What is not fine is using that position to then fire out ridiculous, almost hysterical exaggerations and sweeping statements about the current position. Do a couple of shifts in A&E and then tell us how silly restrictions are. Folk in parts of unrestricted England are being told to call a taxi if they have a heart attack, and 20 hospital trusts, covering a larger population than Scotland has, have declared a critical situation. That isn’t happening to the same extent here because of the restrictions, which since Omicron arrived has seen the infection rate in Wales, NI and Scotland around a third lower than England. Figure are now dipping down south because that’s where they are in the infection cycle - it started in London - they will fall here too in due course. Until the next wave.

England has throughout the pandemic been less restrictive than the norm across the world. As a result, it has the fifth highest death toll in the world, and very close to the highest per capita death rate in the world. That was their decision, and that’s fine - it’s not for us to criticise. But what is utterly baffling is why we are somehow at fault for not more closely following their example? 

I mean, why would you simply copy another country exactly anyway in formulating your pandemic response, without taking into account your own circumstances? What other country in the world has done that? And even if you somehow convinced yourself that that was the best way forward, why would you choose to copy a country exactly that is very close to being the world’s worst performer? 
 

It’s nothing to do with politics, it’s just bonkers on every level.

[Setting Son]

1 hour ago, blueheaven said:

people have already gone back to their filthy old ways. 

Yip they have and nothing to do with going to the toilets at McD . 
 

[RandomGuy]

14 minutes ago, Abernethy Saint said:

 

England has throughout the pandemic been less restrictive than the norm across the world. As a result, it has the fifth highest death toll in the world, and very close to the highest per capita death rate in the world. That was their decision, and that’s fine - it’s not for us to criticise. But what is utterly baffling is why we are somehow at fault for not more closely following their example? 

Scotland is not at fault not copying England's approach to the pandemic, they ****ed it up for everyone at the start.

They are at fault for piling restrictions onto already struggling businesses during an important time of year when faced with a variant that offers next to no threat to the population or NHS. England have shown this is the case as their cases spiral downwards in the exact same matters as every other country that's reported Omicron. When the vast, vast, majority of Scotland is vaccinated against the virus, and its impossible for any variant to cause serious illnesses to vaccinated people, it buys the government time to evaluate the best position. Ours defaulted to restrictions and panic.

I'm just frustrated that was their response as it means I'm now convinced we'll face this pish every single winter now as, it has done for about a decade as their funding gets cut constantly, the NHS struggles with the flu hitting the population.

[Abernethy Saint]

How can you say Omicron is “next to no threat to the NHS”? That’s patently utter, utter nonsense. Do you have a TV?

The Scottish Government took £200 million from the rest of the budget for these businesses, which is being paid right now. The UK Government eventually caved and is now contributing some as well. If McD qualifies, they’ll get some of it. St Johnstone also got a £1.5 million zero-interest, pay it back in several years time loan - from the Scottish Government. Again, the “no compensation” statements are patent nonsense. If you mean furlough, only the UK Government can offer that, as they have most of our money and they won’t let us borrow. They have refused. There’s feck all we can do about it.

There’s no reason at all to assume all the restrictions will be repeated every winter if the COVID risk is minor. None whatsoever. No one in Government has said that, no one is calling for it, they didn’t do it with flu. You’re just making shit up.