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The big COVID-19 Shutdown

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6 hours ago, Widge said:

Christie is self isolating because he was in Stuart Armstrong's room playing on the playstation. He hasn't broken any rules since they train together and are all in a competitive sports bubble, there is no need to socially distance (in fact it's literally not possible ), but due to Armstrong testing positive he has to islolate as protocol. 

Armstrong could have gotten it from anywhere, a family member, his club team, a coach, a flight attendant. There's no way of knowing where and when players catch it, but a positive case doesn't mean that a player has broken the rules, they could literally catch it at the supermarket the same way any of us could. A player testing positive isn't a clear sign of rule breaking.

Hang on a second, if it was OK for Armstrong and Christie, and presumably Tierney also, to play play on playstation within the confines of a hotel bedroom how come Arsenal and Celtic were complaining that neither player had broken social distancing rules?  Surely if it was known they were all in such close proximity there could be no complaint about the 14 day self isolation period being imposed? 

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18 minutes ago, south inch said:

Hang on a second, if it was OK for Armstrong and Christie, and presumably Tierney also, to play play on playstation within the confines of a hotel bedroom how come Arsenal and Celtic were complaining that neither player had broken social distancing rules?  Surely if it was known they were all in such close proximity there could be no complaint about the 14 day self isolation period being imposed? 

Well they've not broken any social distancing rules have they? They're allowed to be in close proximity to their teammates, hence why they must isolate for 14 days. There is no complaints about this, it's the rules laid down to anyone from any walk of life, if you've been in contact with someone with the virus, you isolate for 14 days.

The complaint is presumably because they get tested several times a week and thus there shouldn't be any real need to isolate; however the stats show it can hide in the system for 14 days and as such that's the rules. 

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2 hours ago, Widge said:

Well they've not broken any social distancing rules have they? They're allowed to be in close proximity to their teammates, hence why they must isolate for 14 days. There is no complaints about this, it's the rules laid down to anyone from any walk of life, if you've been in contact with someone with the virus, you isolate for 14 days.

The complaint is presumably because they get tested several times a week and thus there shouldn't be any real need to isolate; however the stats show it can hide in the system for 14 days and as such that's the rules. 

I think we will have to agree to differ on this one.  As you rightly say Covid can hide in the system for 14 days so to allow players to play video games in the confines of a hotel bedroom when the normal rule is you must self isolate if you have spent 15 minutes within 2 metres of someone who tests positive seems remarkable.  Clearly that is completely different from running around training with each other.

It is possible the clubs did not know about these lax rules as their players merely said they had complied with what they were asked to do.  This would explain the silence after the initial complaints after the rules were explained.  Celtic will have to lump it but don't be surprised if Tierney has a tight hamstring or some other niggle if he is selected for the next round of internationals.

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Nah - they are in a bubble, and can theoretically mingle freely within the bubble, but not with anyone outside it (apart from family). Same as you in your own household. So playing video games together is ok - although I imagine they try to keep it to a minimum. However, once someone within the bubble is positive, obviously anyone in close contact with them has to self-isolate. You can follow every rule and get Covid. 

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On 10/14/2020 at 11:24 PM, Abernethy Saint said:

Nah - they are in a bubble, and can theoretically mingle freely within the bubble, but not with anyone outside it (apart from family). Same as you in your own household. So playing video games together is ok - although I imagine they try to keep it to a minimum. However, once someone within the bubble is positive, obviously anyone in close contact with them has to self-isolate. You can follow every rule and get Covid. 

A bubble was what the England test cricketers and their opponents agreed to no doubt in return for a healthy financial reward.  It would have been impossible to replicate those conditions but I think rich clubs like Arsenal would have expected a better attempt than what has been described above.  A bedroom should have been a bedroom - period.  The cricketers played video games to combat boredom but in controlled circumstances with social distancing and in well ventilated rooms.  As for family - no chance and these guys were locked down for weeks not days.  Joffra Archer was fined and placed in isolation for 7 days for chancing a brief visit to his flat to see his partner whilst transferring venues from Southampton to Manchester.  Mind you by all accounts she was worth every penny!

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1 hour ago, south inch said:

A bubble was what the England test cricketers and their opponents agreed to no doubt in return for a healthy financial reward.  It would have been impossible to replicate those conditions but I think rich clubs like Arsenal would have expected a better attempt than what has been described above.  A bedroom should have been a bedroom - period.  The cricketers played video games to combat boredom but in controlled circumstances with social distancing and in well ventilated rooms.  As for family - no chance and these guys were locked down for weeks not days.  Joffra Archer was fined and placed in isolation for 7 days for chancing a brief visit to his flat to see his partner whilst transferring venues from Southampton to Manchester.  Mind you by all accounts she was worth every penny!

Yeh, she is. Bit noisy.

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3 hours ago, Templar Saint said:

How many times are they allowed to cancel games because of Covid without questions being raised and action taken against them?

 

This is the first time they have cancelled a game the last time they had to borrow a keeper and play. This is a genuine question what punishment would you award? If you award the points to the opposition that penalises the other teams as well. If you fine them in this climate who does that help. I think we just have to grin and bare it. 

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1 hour ago, Stumpy1966 said:

This is the first time they have cancelled a game the last time they had to borrow a keeper and play. This is a genuine question what punishment would you award? If you award the points to the opposition that penalises the other teams as well. If you fine them in this climate who does that help. I think we just have to grin and bare it. 

As Cagey has said this should have been forward planned by SPFL regarding how to deal with this situation.

All the present system does is cause a backlog of games but agree that points being awarded to opposing team is unfair.

Perhaps a system where teams cancel games of a pre agreed number then they are deducted points - similar to clubs who go into administration.  This would have to have been set out prior to any games being played. 

Only a suggestion but no doubt will be shot down by some.

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There is a system. Just because folk don’t like it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. No one at fault = game postponed. Investigation finds fault = possible forfeit & 3-0. There is still just enough time to live with some postponements. Aside from the two postponed when the Government intervened, because of the “play if at all possible” rule, there has been, I think, just one Covid postponement to date. If things go completely tits up, and football is closed again, then it won’t make a blind bit of difference if a few games are being carried over or not.

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On 10/17/2020 at 11:51 PM, Abernethy Saint said:

There is a system. Just because folk don’t like it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. No one at fault = game postponed. Investigation finds fault = possible forfeit & 3-0. There is still just enough time to live with some postponements. Aside from the two postponed when the Government intervened, because of the “play if at all possible” rule, there has been, I think, just one Covid postponement to date. If things go completely tits up, and football is closed again, then it won’t make a blind bit of difference if a few games are being carried over or not.

Not sure there is much room for postponement. There is the Betfred cup, International weeks,Europa & Champions league ,SPFL midweek  games, games to be rearranged due to Scottish cup semifinal & final. Motherwell have two games to catch up on & we don't know what the winter will throw at us.

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10 hours ago, Cagey said:

Not sure there is much room for postponement. There is the Betfred cup, International weeks,Europa & Champions league ,SPFL midweek  games, games to be rearranged due to Scottish cup semifinal & final. Motherwell have two games to catch up on & we don't know what the winter will throw at us.

That’s why I didn’t say there was much room for postponement. I said there was some. 

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St Mirren have another 3 positives + a contact.

This has been going on since our friendly with them was cancelled. Either they are unlucky because they are in the worst hit part of Scotland or they are poor at sticking to Nicolas F A C T S.

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7 hours ago, Cagey said:

St Mirren have another 3 positives + a contact.

This has been going on since our friendly with them was cancelled. Either they are unlucky because they are in the worst hit part of Scotland or they are poor at sticking to Nicolas F A C T S.

None of the players are in bubbles outside of football. They’ll have partners that work, kids at school etc. 
 

I think their infection rate probably ties in with their local situation. 
 

Impossible to say how many asymptomatic carriers have the virus but I’d wager it’s between 20-40x the quoted numbers. 

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On 10/17/2020 at 11:51 PM, Abernethy Saint said:

There is a system. Just because folk don’t like it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. No one at fault = game postponed. Investigation finds fault = possible forfeit & 3-0. There is still just enough time to live with some postponements. Aside from the two postponed when the Government intervened, because of the “play if at all possible” rule, there has been, I think, just one Covid postponement to date. If things go completely tits up, and football is closed again, then it won’t make a blind bit of difference if a few games are being carried over or not.

Further to this, that’s Kilmarnock up before the League on a charge of breaking restrictions before the postponed game with Motherwell the other week. So you’re now seeing the system in action. If found guilty, will they go hard, with a 3-0 forfeiture, or will it be a slap on the wrists?

Oh the excitement.

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1 hour ago, Abernethy Saint said:

Further to this, that’s Kilmarnock up before the League on a charge of breaking restrictions before the postponed game with Motherwell the other week. So you’re now seeing the system in action. If found guilty, will they go hard, with a 3-0 forfeiture, or will it be a slap on the wrists?

Oh the excitement.

They should be treaded exactly the same as the “2 big clubs” were who broke the rules at the start. If you punish Kilmarnock you also punish Saints and all the other clubs who were effected by Celtic and Aberdeen players who broke the rules..

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1 hour ago, Abernethy Saint said:

Further to this, that’s Kilmarnock up before the League on a charge of breaking restrictions before the postponed game with Motherwell the other week. So you’re now seeing the system in action. If found guilty, will they go hard, with a 3-0 forfeiture, or will it be a slap on the wrists?

Oh the excitement.

This is a really dangerous route for the SPFL to go down. You cannot start having points deductions/awards for team as a punishment, when the rules have not been in place all season.

Say Killie were to get relegated by being a couple of points behind St Mirren due to a forfeit game while St Mirren were able to postpone. Would be more chaos than there currently is.

The game is tearing itself apart. All games should be played over the course of the season regardless of exactly when. If it means 4 games a week for some teams once they have no isolating players, then so be it.

For the good of the future of the game too, the entire SPFL leadership and board must replaced at the end of this. There is no trust and so to have any future, new faces need to be introduced that have no history of infighting or the Rangers saga, Hearts demotion, poor TV deals, armageddon predictions etc etc etc.

 

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Wasn’t Doncaster brought in precisely because he had no “Old Firm” baggage? It hasn’t been impressive for a while, though, so I get what you are saying - time for a change. In an atmosphere where EVERY decision is widely interpreted as either a Vatican or Masonic plot, I don’t think there will be an enormous queue, especially as there won’t be much money to pay the next guy. Serious suggestion  - putting a woman in charge would (literally) take some testosterone out of it.

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Talk about punishment for Killie & St Mirren. SPFL will have to tread carefully as any decision will have to replicated for everyone. 3 points deductions could mean relegation or losing the title.

Why did Rangers get away with fielding untested against United pre season. That was the time to put down a marker & set out rules.

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Dundee United asking their players & backroom staff to take a 20% wage cut but not their summer signings which is not going down well. Aparantly they are paying £5 k a week for McNulty.

I think we can all see United being in trouble even without covid.

They think the government should help. Yeah,spend beyond your means & ask the government to bail you out.

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