Johnny B Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 3 hours ago, RandomGuy said: Why? Why the **** should Arbroath, one of the best sides in the second tier this season and on the verge of a play off spot and potential promotion, be denied a spot in the top two tiers until they go full time, something they cannot afford to run on their support? Its elitist pish that you expect fans of the Old Firm, or Hearts, to be spouting and I've zero idea why a St Johnstone fan is trying to force clubs out the league system based on their size, considering less than 40 years ago we ourselves were bottom of the league system, part time, and had one of the smallest supports in the Country. Theres only 20 full time clubs in Scotland anyway, bright spark, so your two leagues of 12 doesnt even add up. It annoys the **** out of me when people suggest stuff like this. As for 20 full time clubs if another 2 do not turn full time then it is 2 divisions of 10 surely a bright spark can work that out? As for elitist pish it is good business sense and there is no room for sentiment. Too many clubs for a country our size. Yes you are correct less than 40 years ago we ourselves were bottom of the league system, part time, and had one of the smallest supports in the Country. Therefore if we can do it so can others. Just because It annoys the **** out of you does not mean it is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy rhodes fancy watch Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 We never had one of the smallest supports in the country lads, we were actually one of the better supported sides in division 2. St Johnstone FC have always been big time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Johnny B said: As for elitist pish it is good business sense and there is no room for sentiment. Too many clubs for a country our size. It is, you actively want to kick out clubs, virtually killing them off, because they're not full time. Why not just close off the top flight? Split the prize money between 12 instead of 42. Why even stop there? Cut it down to the 6 best supported sides, surely that makes the most sense financially? Edited June 13, 2020 by RandomGuy Cagerf, Cagey and south inch 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cagey Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 56 minutes ago, RandomGuy said: It genuinely gets me raging. Same with Steve Browns pish about 5 tiers and 12 Colt sides being put into the 5th tier. Clubs below League Two have fought for decades to get a pyramid system, and theyve finally got a half arsed version of it (you need to win a play off to get into League Two), but how do people want to reward these sides? Stick a bunch of shite kids in their way. 12 colt teams in tier 5. Is that not the same as an under 21 league that we used to have before they brought in some kind of elite system & some brave heart shite. south inch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixties saintee Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) So hearts thistle stranraer looking for 6 mill compensation because of failed re construction failed who broached it in the first place ? And why because they were the shite teams in the first place Edited June 13, 2020 by sixties saintee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abernethy Saint Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 3 hours ago, RandomGuy said: It genuinely gets me raging. Same with Steve Browns pish about 5 tiers and 12 Colt sides being put into the 5th tier. Clubs below League Two have fought for decades to get a pyramid system, and theyve finally got a half arsed version of it (you need to win a play off to get into League Two), but how do people want to reward these sides? Stick a bunch of shite kids in their way. As someone brought up watching Highland League, always been a huge fan of the pyramid system. I’d have no objection to Colts sides being promoted through that, starting say around the 6th or 7th level. Although that just transfers the issue to the 8th or 9th level, I suppose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Johnny B said: As for 20 full time clubs if another 2 do not turn full time then it is 2 divisions of 10 surely a bright spark can work that out? As for elitist pish it is good business sense and there is no room for sentiment. Too many clubs for a country our size. Yes you are correct less than 40 years ago we ourselves were bottom of the league system, part time, and had one of the smallest supports in the Country. Therefore if we can do it so can others. Just because It annoys the **** out of you does not mean it is wrong. So what are you going to do about promotion and relegation in a system where there are two divisions of ten and only 20 full-time teams? Do you want to start blocking clubs from getting promoted just because they're not full-time? Never understand this "too many clubs" stuff. "Too many" for who, or for what? How does taking clubs away benefit anyone, and how would you decide which clubs to take away? And how is it good business sense to dictate whether clubs should be full-time or not? Creating a situation where small clubs are forced to become full-time, when it doesn't work for them, is the opposite of good business sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Abernethy Saint said: As someone brought up watching Highland League, always been a huge fan of the pyramid system. I’d have no objection to Colts sides being promoted through that, starting say around the 6th or 7th level. Although that just transfers the issue to the 8th or 9th level, I suppose! If they want in they should start at the lowest level possible. That would be no benefit to young players, so hopefully would kill the whole dreadful idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abernethy Saint Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 Perthshire League Division 3 (South) Abernethy 4 Rangers* 1 Cagerf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dennis Wise Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Abernethy Saint said: Perthshire League Division 3 (South) Abernethy 4 Rangers* 1 Aberargie would do them at least 6-1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abernethy Saint Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, Abbots Deuglie Saint said: Aberargie would do them at least 6-1. Mebbee, if Tam’s back from the rigs. Mr Dennis Wise 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south inch Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 7 hours ago, Abernethy Saint said: As someone brought up watching Highland League, always been a huge fan of the pyramid system. I’d have no objection to Colts sides being promoted through that, starting say around the 6th or 7th level. Although that just transfers the issue to the 8th or 9th level, I suppose! I too am a fan of the pyramid system but I would not let Colts sides anywhere near it. Instead, let them have a proper Reserve League with provision for say 50% of the listed team being 21 or under with at least 5 on the pitch at all times. Mind you Kinnoull are in the 7th tier. Imagine Kinnoull v Rangers* Colts at an all ticket Tulloch Park. Rangers* fans limited to 200 so that the police can more easily protect them from the locals. In my day police cars heading into Tulloch had 3 officers on board - two to conduct whatever business they were there for and one to make sure the car was still there when they got back. Abernethy Saint and HOODLUM65 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainstand Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 Discussion on Radio Scotland today that they are now down to a 14-10-10-10 proposal but given that ICT will be one of the clubs that will gain from it there is a possibility championship clubs will take revenge for the way they behaved during the former vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny B Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 22 hours ago, blueheaven said: So what are you going to do about promotion and relegation in a system where there are two divisions of ten and only 20 full-time teams? Do you want to start blocking clubs from getting promoted just because they're not full-time? Never understand this "too many clubs" stuff. "Too many" for who, or for what? How does taking clubs away benefit anyone, and how would you decide which clubs to take away? And how is it good business sense to dictate whether clubs should be full-time or not? Creating a situation where small clubs are forced to become full-time, when it doesn't work for them, is the opposite of good business sense. Promotion and relegation it is not blocking promotion it would be abiding by the rules. Do not go full time do not get promotion. Falkirk were denied promotion a number of seasons ago because of their ground is that blocking promotion? How would you decide which clubs to take away? The clubs decide themselves, not full time not included or illegible for the 2 divisions The business sense is that small teams eg. Albion Rovers (ground capacity (1,200) a team going nowhere for a long time will not be given money to keep them afloat. The money will be divided between the 20 or 22 Full time teams the extra may and I say may help teams that qualify for Europe to reach the group stages and thus generate more money through sponsorship and from UEFA It is harsh but that is how I see our game flourishing. Scotland needs to be professional and become full time. This is my last word on the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpy1949 Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Johnny B said: Promotion and relegation it is not blocking promotion it would be abiding by the rules. Do not go full time do not get promotion. Falkirk were denied promotion a number of seasons ago because of their ground is that blocking promotion? How would you decide which clubs to take away? The clubs decide themselves, not full time not included or illegible for the 2 divisions The business sense is that small teams eg. Albion Rovers (ground capacity (1,200) a team going nowhere for a long time will not be given money to keep them afloat. The money will be divided between the 20 or 22 Full time teams the extra may and I say may help teams that qualify for Europe to reach the group stages and thus generate more money through sponsorship and from UEFA It is harsh but that is how I see our game flourishing. Scotland needs to be professional and become full time. This is my last word on the topic. Your last sentence I like. Cagey and andy rhodes fancy watch 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Center Half Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 17 hours ago, south inch said: I too am a fan of the pyramid system but I would not let Colts sides anywhere near it. Instead, let them have a proper Reserve League with provision for say 50% of the listed team being 21 or under with at least 5 on the pitch at all times. Mind you Kinnoull are in the 7th tier. Imagine Kinnoull v Rangers* Colts at an all ticket Tulloch Park. Rangers* fans limited to 200 so that the police can more easily protect them from the locals. In my day police cars heading into Tulloch had 3 officers on board - two to conduct whatever business they were there for and one to make sure the car was still there when they got back. Read somewhere Luncarty are now in the pyramid system so how many leagues are there now in the system! it would appear the traditional Junior teams are now switching to the lower leagues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Johnny B said: Promotion and relegation it is not blocking promotion it would be abiding by the rules. Do not go full time do not get promotion. Falkirk were denied promotion a number of seasons ago because of their ground is that blocking promotion? Yes, that literally is blocking promotion. 2 hours ago, Johnny B said: The business sense is that small teams eg. Albion Rovers (ground capacity (1,200) a team going nowhere for a long time will not be given money to keep them afloat. The money will be divided between the 20 or 22 Full time teams the extra may and I say may help teams that qualify for Europe to reach the group stages and thus generate more money through sponsorship and from UEFA We basically already had this scenario when we had the SPL. There was one smaller "elite" group of clubs that divided the wealth amongst themselves and dictated the terms of promotion. Your idea is for there to be 20 clubs instead of the 10 or 12 we had back then, but other than that it seems to be pretty much the same (there was even a plan for an SPL 2 back then, which would have brought it even closer to your suggestion, but it never happened). It didn't work. That's why the SPL merged back with the SFL. The SPL lasted for 15 years and during that time the standard of football gradually dropped, Scotland didn't qualify for a single tournament, and the only clubs to have any sort of success in Europe were (as usual) the Old Firm. Personally I don't want a system that is geared towards making the rich clubs richer and trying to hold all the money at the top end. As a St Johnstone fan, I don't really see why I should consider Celtic or Rangers to be any more important or valuable to Scottish football than Albion Rovers or Forfar. If anything, I'd favour directing funding towards the smaller clubs rather than contribute to increasing the Old Firm's stranglehold over our game. south inch and Cagey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 37 minutes ago, Center Half said: Read somewhere Luncarty are now in the pyramid system so how many leagues are there now in the system! it would appear the traditional Junior teams are now switching to the lower leagues? Personally I reckon Junior football will be dead within the next decade or two, with most of the clubs from that set-up moving into the pyramid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainstand Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 55 minutes ago, blueheaven said: Personally I reckon Junior football will be dead within the next decade or two, with most of the clubs from that set-up moving into the pyramid. Has the west of Scotland junior not folder thought they all moved to wear of Scotland league set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abernethy Saint Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, blueheaven said: Personally I reckon Junior football will be dead within the next decade or two, with most of the clubs from that set-up moving into the pyramid. It’s likely that over the next 10-15 years there will be a big clear-out of the wee clubs that have been happy to stay in the bottom two leagues for decades, operating on a shoe-string, and contributing very little frankly. To be replaced by ambitious and dynamic ex-Junior and semi-professional sides that, in time, will challenge the likes of Saints to improve. The achievements of ex-HL Ross and ICT, along with Ferranti Thistle (and even Gretna (spit)) have been remarkable, and note how Cove and Edinburgh City have hit the ground running. The alternative scenario is that the current wee teams get their act together, but that’s good as well. Its a fantastic, and long-overdue, development that will in time make a big difference. Edited June 14, 2020 by Abernethy Saint south inch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south inch Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Center Half said: Read somewhere Luncarty are now in the pyramid system so how many leagues are there now in the system! it would appear the traditional Junior teams are now switching to the lower leagues? Read that too, they have joined the East of Scotland League. When things get going again I assume they will play in one of the two First Division conferences which is where Kinnoull play. Jeanfield Swifts are in the East of Scotland Premier League which is part of the pyramid level below the Lowland League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunblanemike Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 So when will the clubs be having this vote (is it the 405th vote this year)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south inch Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Not surprisingly the Hootsmon has been banging on day after day trying to influence the various votes around reconstruction and governance in Hearts favour. About two weeks ago it got onto the question of how much compensation Hearts could get from successful court action. A figure of £4 million was headlined. Last week this figure had grown to £6 million without explanation. To day it has grown further to £8 million, no doubt on the "think of a figure and then double it" principle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cagey Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Leslie Deas says SPFL board should impose reconstruction if more than 50% voted for it. His also threatening legal action to prevent season starting along with other threats. Oh ,and Anderson may withdraw £3 million. I think these bullying & threats should see Hearts expelled. south inch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnstoun Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Cagey said: Leslie Deas says SPFL board should impose reconstruction if more than 50% voted for it. His also threatening legal action to prevent season starting along with other threats. Oh ,and Anderson may withdraw £3 million. I think these bullying & threats should see Hearts expelled. At the very least there should be an EXPLOSIVE dossier about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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