New Manager

[andy rhodes fancy watch]

2 hours ago, Linky said:

You could say the only job he got due to his own credentials was the one at Dunfermline.

So his coaching badges were given to him because he was an ex football player? Tommy made him assistant manager because he used to play for Saints? Scotland used him as a coach just because he was Saints assistant? Then a guy who he played with 10 years ago phoned him up and said I want you to be my right hand man, twice,  just because we played together years ago and you were a good pal?

That's an awful big disservice you're doing Callum Davidson there. The guy is a great coach, I've witnessed it. The only reservations I had were that I thought he wouldn't be vocal enough, wouldn't get his ideas across well enough,  after witnessing him in action I can truthfully say I was wrong.

[RandomGuy]

I think they key thing Davidson has over Cleland is contacts down South.

Like it or not, we dont have a real scouting system so are reliant on finding players through word of mouth.

Who's more likely to be aware of the next Drey Wright/Michael O'Halloran?

Cleland, who's been out of the English game for 18 years, or Davidson, who's currently in it and has been for a few years, and who has best friends involved in the game down there?

You've also got the fact that Allan Preston is a fairly major agent in Scottish football, and he of course played beside Davidson for years.

[Linky]

11 minutes ago, andy rhodes fancy watch said:

So his coaching badges were given to him because he was an ex football player? Tommy made him assistant manager because he used to play for Saints? Scotland used him as a coach just because he was Saints assistant? Then a guy who he played with 10 years ago phoned him up and said I want you to be my right hand man, twice,  just because we played together years ago and you were a good pal?

That's an awful big disservice you're doing Callum Davidson there. The guy is a great coach, I've witnessed it. The only reservations I had were that I thought he wouldn't be vocal enough, wouldn't get his ideas across well enough,  after witnessing him in action I can truthfully say I was wrong.

I'm sure he's a wonderful coach, I don't doubt it, and could be a great manager. However, the argument was about his experience - whether he had more experience than Cleland. I'm saying, I'm not sure that that is indeed the case. Cleland would be the safer option if we were talking about experience, but the safer option isn't always the best.

I wouldn't say Davidson experience at Millwall and Stoke really adds up to much, considering he was there such a short period of time, and part of the reason he got the job was due to his friendship with the manager. That doesn't mean he'll be a bad manager, but I think he's less experienced than Cleland.

[Linky]

8 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

I think they key thing Davidson has over Cleland is contacts down South.

Like it or not, we dont have a real scouting system so are reliant on finding players through word of mouth.

Who's more likely to be aware of the next Drey Wright/Michael O'Halloran?

Cleland, who's been out of the English game for 18 years, or Davidson, who's currently in it and has been for a few years, and who has best friends involved in the game down there?

You've also got the fact that Allan Preston is a fairly major agent in Scottish football, and he of course played beside Davidson for years.

This is true - and a far better reason to go for Davidson over Cleland. There is the possibility of getting some free loans from Millwall too.

[andy rhodes fancy watch]

6 minutes ago, Linky said:

I'm sure he's a wonderful coach, I don't doubt it, and could be a great manager. However, the argument was about his experience - whether he had more experience than Cleland. I'm saying, I'm not sure that that is indeed the case. Cleland would be the safer option if we were talking about experience, but the safer option isn't always the best.

I wouldn't say Davidson experience at Millwall and Stoke really adds up to much, considering he was there such a short period of time, and part of the reason he got the job was due to his friendship with the manager. That doesn't mean he'll be a bad manager, but I think he's less experienced than Cleland.

 

4 minutes ago, Linky said:

This is true - and a far better reason to go for Davidson over Cleland. There is the possibility of getting some free loans from Millwall too.

You're contradicting yourself here, if you hire a manager you're hiring the whole package.

He has less experience than Cleland in timescale only. He has coached at a higher level, been involved in International coaching and all the while making contacts in several pies Cleland can only dream of. Callum is light years ahead as a prospective candidate for St Johnstone imo. Any sane employer will be able to see this.

[Linky]

39 minutes ago, andy rhodes fancy watch said:

 

You're contradicting yourself here, if you hire a manager you're hiring the whole package.

He has less experience than Cleland in timescale only. He has coached at a higher level, been involved in International coaching and all the while making contacts in several pies Cleland can only dream of. Callum is light years ahead as a prospective candidate for St Johnstone imo. Any sane employer will be able to see this.

Not at all. What I'm saying is: if you want experience on the ground and with this squad of players in particular, go with Cleland; if you want connections and contacts then go with Davidson. They offer something different, I'd prefer to go with the latter as it seems you do as well (although I think there are other options & factors too)

You said 'he has less experience than Cleland in timescale only'. I'm not sure how you judge experience other than in regards to time. When I learnt to drive I did so with a more experienced driver than me; in other words, they had spent more years driving than I had. Whether I'd driven a Ferrari for 5 mins, and they a Vauxhall for 20 years made no difference, they were still more experienced than me.

[blueheaven]

I don't think it will end up being either Davidson or Cleland. Could be way out on that though.

[HOODLUM65]

4 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I don't think it will end up being either Davidson or Cleland. Could be way out on that though.

Don't think it will be Davidson.

At the moment he is in secure employment and the team were doing well for 6 months before Lockdown.

Can't see Saints offering similar or more than the salary he is likely to be on at a higher level , to entice him back North.

Besides did he not suffer a financial investment collapse a few years ago and the money comes in handy.

Would suspect he got a payoff figure from Stoke when he left.

[MySpazz]

9 hours ago, Linky said:

This is true - and a far better reason to go for Davidson over Cleland. There is the possibility of getting some free loans from Millwall too.

I can assure you Millwall don't do free loans. 

They will also loan the players from the U23s that are going to be released in the summer out to non -league clubs or if they have more potential, local league 1 or 2 teams in the january before releasing them in the summer.

But for sure, and in no uncertain terms do they do "free" anything!!!!

[blueheaven]

13 hours ago, MySpazz said:

I can assure you Millwall don't do free loans. 

They will also loan the players from the U23s that are going to be released in the summer out to non -league clubs or if they have more potential, local league 1 or 2 teams in the january before releasing them in the summer.

But for sure, and in no uncertain terms do they do "free" anything!!!!

I think it's unlikely that the sort of players they'd be willing to loan to Saints would be good enough for us in any case. We'd be taking kids from them who would just sit on our bench. Hardly a major plus point in appointing a manager.

[rik2304]

Cleland has gathered plenty of experience. Primarily at Saints, latterly as assistant. 

Davidson now has experience as an assistant in Scotland across two leagues, down south and in the international set up he's also been fully responsible for managing Saints on the occasion when Tommy was ill/indisposed.

 

I don't actually think it will be Davidson though. Or Cleland. 

Callum may be the next again manager though.

[jhq]

On 6/6/2020 at 12:54 PM, Linky said:

Not at all. What I'm saying is: if you want experience on the ground and with this squad of players in particular, go with Cleland; if you want connections and contacts then go with Davidson. They offer something different, I'd prefer to go with the latter as it seems you do as well (although I think there are other options & factors too)

You said 'he has less experience than Cleland in timescale only'. I'm not sure how you judge experience other than in regards to time. When I learnt to drive I did so with a more experienced driver than me; in other words, they had spent more years driving than I had. Whether I'd driven a Ferrari for 5 mins, and they a Vauxhall for 20 years made no difference, they were still more experienced than me.

I've held a driving license longer than Lewis Hamilton has. I wouldn't consider myself a more experienced driver than him.

[Pat McGroin]

35 minutes ago, jhq said:

I've held a driving license longer than Lewis Hamilton has. I wouldn't consider myself a more experienced driver than him.

You are, in both years and miles.

You might even be a better driver than him.

You’re not a quicker driver than him.

[andy rhodes fancy watch]

24 minutes ago, Pat McGroin said:

You are, in both years and miles.

You might even be a better driver than him.

You’re not a quicker driver than him.

But is he better? Experience means **** all if you are stuck in your ways and are hardly tested. Variety hones experience in ways someone doing the same routine untested can only dream of.

We've probably all had/have careers here, you don't start truly learning till at least your second or third job after you're qualified imo. That experience is invaluable. 

[Pat McGroin]

14 minutes ago, andy rhodes fancy watch said:

But is he better? Experience means **** all if you are stuck in your ways and are hardly tested. Variety hones experience in ways someone doing the same routine untested can only dream of.

We've probably all had/have careers here, you don't start truly learning till at least your second or third job after you're qualified imo. That experience is invaluable. 

I don’t know. I don’t know how either of them actually drive on the road. Lewis might be an awful driver, JHQ might be great. 
 

I do remember Lewis pranging a super car in Monte Carlo a few years ago. I can’t imagine Lewis does much driving nowadays. He’s likely driven everywhere!
 

The only thing I can say for certain is that Lewis is a better racing driver! 

[HOODLUM65]

2 hours ago, Pat McGroin said:

You are, in both years and miles.

You might even be a better driver than him.

You’re not a quicker driver than him.

Lewis has probably had more speeding tickets.

Something money can't buy, ....experience.

Edited June 8, 2020 by HOODLUM65

[sixties saintee]

9 minutes ago, HOODLUM65 said:

Lewis has probably had more speeding tickets.

Something money can't buy, ....experience.

That you talking about yourself then

[shiresaint]

On 6/5/2020 at 11:59 AM, Cagey said:

I think HMRC will have bigger fish to fry. There will be loads trying to work the system.

Raith are getting praise for furloughing players that they are going to release. I think that kind of thing will be picked up but even that is small fry.

What's this with all the fish analogies.

Small fry.

Bigger fish to fry.

Plenty more fish in the sea.

Is this not by definition the purpose of furlough? It is a job retention scheme to try and keep people employed who would normally be made redundant. If Raith or anyone else are extending contracts short term with the sole purpose of keeping them on furlough then yeah, see where you're coming from.

[dave mc]

The Courier saying SB getting stuck into the manager picking,not been advertised,but a lot of excellent applications ,hoping it’ll be sooner rather than later  

[mainstand]

13 hours ago, shiresaint said:

Is this not by definition the purpose of furlough? It is a job retention scheme to try and keep people employed who would normally be made redundant. If Raith or anyone else are extending contracts short term with the sole purpose of keeping them on furlough then yeah, see where you're coming from.

HMRC have said that where players return to organised training sessions they have to come off furlough as they are then under the control of the Club, this was in response to English premiership rugby claim that as they were unable to play games and full training had not resumed they should be able to resume on furlough. 

[jhq]

Peter Grant 

[mainstand]

1 hour ago, jhq said:

Peter Grant 

done well at Alloa and was well thought of in the Scotland set up. 

 

[rik2304]

Would be bad news for Zander if Peter Grant got it.

[mainstand]

Just now, rik2304 said:

Would be bad news for Zander if Peter Grant got it.

Why??

[blueheaven]

2 minutes ago, mainstand said:

Why??

There was a bit of a war of words involving Peter Grant's part in Zander's lack of a Scotland call-up a couple of years ago. If you Google their two names you'll see some media coverage of it.

I find it highly unlikely Saints will appoint Peter Grant. Seems very Billy Starkish.