George Grieve

Taxi For Davidson

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13 hours ago, John Bonham said:

Nothing is going to change between now and of the season with only 5 fanes left and a relegatiov scrap. Its not the time to start a protest against the manager imo, it would be counter productive for the players I think

Have to agree. As much as I feel a change is required, I think the most important thing that we as fans can do for the remainder of the season is focus on getting right behind the team.

There needs to be one mother of a post-mortem once this is all over, though.

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I think there is a strong case to change now.

Kelty was obviously the nadir, our reaction after going behind as cup holders was pitiful and screamed of a side not playing for the manager. Much has been made of the scenes afterwards and they possibly triggered a personal reaction in some players. 

Results have obviously been better but I really don't see it in performances generally. Livingston away was a good performance and beating Hearts obviously took something but that apart, it's been more of the same, the difference being we have had decisions go for us rather than against us, the back three is a bit more settled (McCart improved) and we have a striker with a real point to prove to a manager who has wasted his talent and cost us a good player. 

Does losing 7-0, allowing Celtic to break records for passes made, show a team playing for a manager? Did they look like a team motivated by their leader? Does his reaction of it being "disappointing" and "not nice" convey the right message? 

Usually you'd expect to a reaction from such a defeat but such is Davidson and this group, I wouldn't bank on it as things stand.

A change isn't just about getting an immediate bounce though, it would allow a new man to assess the players that are here moving forward, although most of them should have big marker pen black crosses next to their names in any case.

I don't really understand the logic that he stays on if he keeps us up but goes if not. I do accept managers should be judged over extended periods but there also has to be an element of discretion and what has been served up and presided over this season hasn't been good enough, whatever the end result. He shouldn't be in charge next season, so why delay the inevitable if you don't believe Callum Davidson will have any influence over whether we stay up or go down? 

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1 hour ago, Radford 72 said:

I think there is a strong case to change now.

Kelty was obviously the nadir, our reaction after going behind as cup holders was pitiful and screamed of a side not playing for the manager. Much has been made of the scenes afterwards and they possibly triggered a personal reaction in some players. 

Results have obviously been better but I really don't see it in performances generally. Livingston away was a good performance and beating Hearts obviously took something but that apart, it's been more of the same, the difference being we have had decisions go for us rather than against us, the back three is a bit more settled (McCart improved) and we have a striker with a real point to prove to a manager who has wasted his talent and cost us a good player. 

Does losing 7-0, allowing Celtic to break records for passes made, show a team playing for a manager? Did they look like a team motivated by their leader? Does his reaction of it being "disappointing" and "not nice" convey the right message? 

Usually you'd expect to a reaction from such a defeat but such is Davidson and this group, I wouldn't bank on it as things stand.

A change isn't just about getting an immediate bounce though, it would allow a new man to assess the players that are here moving forward, although most of them should have big marker pen black crosses next to their names in any case.

I don't really understand the logic that he stays on if he keeps us up but goes if not. I do accept managers should be judged over extended periods but there also has to be an element of discretion and what has been served up and presided over this season hasn't been good enough, whatever the end result. He shouldn't be in charge next season, so why delay the inevitable if you don't believe Callum Davidson will have any influence over whether we stay up or go down? 

You make really valid points - I just think it’s a massive gamble now when we have (Saturday aside) been grinding out results (2wins on the bounce prior) and I just don’t see making a change now helpful - January would have been the right time and I think we have to see this through to the end of the season. 
 

i think psychologically it would give those around us(Dundee in particular) a boost if we binned Callum now. We would look like a club in dissaray rather than a club who, I think going by the stats of recent weeks, are actually by hook or by crook in mid table form. Dundee can’t seem to buy a win at the moment but I think they would take more heart from us binning our manager with 5 games to go, than any bounce we might get from doing so. 
 

i think you just need to look at Aberdeen, St Mirren and Dundee all changing their managers recently (under various different circumstances of course) and if anything becoming poorer for it. Aberdeen in particular have gone for a rival manager and taken a backward step in terms of performance. 
 

i totally get there is a longer term picture to consider but I think we’re more likely to get 11th and grind our way through the play offs as we are. It might be a short term view but the financial hit of dropping out of the top flight is such that I think we csn only look at the short term picture right now and hope the club have a plan to sort it out in the summer. 
 

no player wants a relegation on their cv and I think a lot of them will take personal responsibility to ensure it doesn’t happen regardless of their views on manager so binning Callum only boosts rivals imo.  
 

I can see the argument both ways but I’n in the stick camp for now.

Edited by John Bonham

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I personally feel that much of the abuse, vitriol and attempts to undermine both Callum Davidson and the club have been out of order recently, particularly since the weekend.

Yes this season has been far from perfect. There are a number of factors that have contributed towards that, the sale of our best two players, numerous injuries to key players, poor recruitment, lack of investment from the club and a fixation with a particular system, however none of that merits some of the recent criticism towards a St Johnstone legend. Callum was an exceptional player for us, is the player we received our highest transfer for and less than a year ago led us to a historic cup double. 

I don't see the logic in sacking him at this moment. Yes, Saturday was embarrassing, but bigger clubs than us have been on the end of worse results in Glasgow. This was a Celtic side that many of their support are saying are even better to watch than the team under Brendan Rodgers and who are relentless in pursuit of winning the league. What is he supposed to say to the media after the game? That some players are not good enough? That some players heads are elsewhere? All that would do is have a negative impact on an already fragile group of players. Look at some of Robinsons comments at St Mirren recently, they seemed to have worked well.....

In terms of players not playing for Davidson, I dont buy that either. Word usually gets out if that is the case, but as far as I am aware, all the players enjoy playing under him, and he has a good bond with the senior players such as Zander, Liam Gordon and Murray Davidson. Results since January dont back up that argument either. Yes, the wins against Motherwell and Livi were not great entertainment, but given our position, all that matters to me is getting the results on board. 

The time for reflection is in the summer, the club have already made steps to fix some of the errors that have led to our current situation and I am sure that more will be made. Nothing to be gained from turning on the manager and players at the moment. We as supporters just need to get behind the club as much as possible over the next five games and hope that the players/management do enough to keep us up.

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33 minutes ago, Aitchy said:

I personally feel that much of the abuse, vitriol and attempts to undermine both Callum Davidson and the club have been out of order recently, particularly since the weekend.

Yes this season has been far from perfect. There are a number of factors that have contributed towards that, the sale of our best two players, numerous injuries to key players, poor recruitment, lack of investment from the club and a fixation with a particular system, however none of that merits some of the recent criticism towards a St Johnstone legend. Callum was an exceptional player for us, is the player we received our highest transfer for and less than a year ago led us to a historic cup double. 

I don't see the logic in sacking him at this moment. Yes, Saturday was embarrassing, but bigger clubs than us have been on the end of worse results in Glasgow. This was a Celtic side that many of their support are saying are even better to watch than the team under Brendan Rodgers and who are relentless in pursuit of winning the league. What is he supposed to say to the media after the game? That some players are not good enough? That some players heads are elsewhere? All that would do is have a negative impact on an already fragile group of players. Look at some of Robinsons comments at St Mirren recently, they seemed to have worked well.....

In terms of players not playing for Davidson, I dont buy that either. Word usually gets out if that is the case, but as far as I am aware, all the players enjoy playing under him, and he has a good bond with the senior players such as Zander, Liam Gordon and Murray Davidson. Results since January dont back up that argument either. Yes, the wins against Motherwell and Livi were not great entertainment, but given our position, all that matters to me is getting the results on board. 

The time for reflection is in the summer, the club have already made steps to fix some of the errors that have led to our current situation and I am sure that more will be made. Nothing to be gained from turning on the manager and players at the moment. We as supporters just need to get behind the club as much as possible over the next five games and hope that the players/management do enough to keep us up.

What have the attempts to undermine the manager and players been?

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1 hour ago, Aitchy said:

I personally feel that much of the abuse, vitriol and attempts to undermine both Callum Davidson and the club have been out of order recently, particularly since the weekend.

Maybe I'm not looking in the right places, but I haven't seen any of this. I actually think the Saints fans, on the whole, have been incredibly patient and supportive under the circumstances. Kelty match aside, there hasn't really been any significant sign of fan unrest at matches. I think the fans of most other clubs in our league would have been vocally rounding on the manager quite some time ago if they were in our situation.

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14 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

Maybe I'm not looking in the right places, but I haven't seen any of this. I actually think the Saints fans, on the whole, have been incredibly patient and supportive under the circumstances. Kelty match aside, there hasn't really been any significant sign of fan unrest at matches. I think the fans of most other clubs in our league would have been vocally rounding on the manager quite some time ago if they were in our situation.

Yeah I agree. Fans have been brilliant since Kelty which I think was quite a cathartic moment. 

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2 hours ago, Aitchy said:

I personally feel that much of the abuse, vitriol and attempts to undermine both Callum Davidson and the club have been out of order recently, particularly since the weekend.

Yes this season has been far from perfect. There are a number of factors that have contributed towards that, the sale of our best two players, numerous injuries to key players, poor recruitment, lack of investment from the club and a fixation with a particular system, however none of that merits some of the recent criticism towards a St Johnstone legend. Callum was an exceptional player for us, is the player we received our highest transfer for and less than a year ago led us to a historic cup double. 

I don't see the logic in sacking him at this moment. Yes, Saturday was embarrassing, but bigger clubs than us have been on the end of worse results in Glasgow. This was a Celtic side that many of their support are saying are even better to watch than the team under Brendan Rodgers and who are relentless in pursuit of winning the league. What is he supposed to say to the media after the game? That some players are not good enough? That some players heads are elsewhere? All that would do is have a negative impact on an already fragile group of players. Look at some of Robinsons comments at St Mirren recently, they seemed to have worked well.....

In terms of players not playing for Davidson, I dont buy that either. Word usually gets out if that is the case, but as far as I am aware, all the players enjoy playing under him, and he has a good bond with the senior players such as Zander, Liam Gordon and Murray Davidson. Results since January dont back up that argument either. Yes, the wins against Motherwell and Livi were not great entertainment, but given our position, all that matters to me is getting the results on board. 

The time for reflection is in the summer, the club have already made steps to fix some of the errors that have led to our current situation and I am sure that more will be made. Nothing to be gained from turning on the manager and players at the moment. We as supporters just need to get behind the club as much as possible over the next five games and hope that the players/management do enough to keep us up.

It's the fixation on a particular system that's driving most people nuts.

That IS Callum.

Don't think anyone can disagree he is a club legend. I like Callum. I just don't want him managing St Johnstone going forward.

Edited by Shibbydoo

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Legends don't make long term good managers. St Johnstone Football Club is far far greater than Callum Davidson. A magnificent season last season should not give any individual a free license for 5 years. The team is crap, absolute crap....and hence the club and city is suffering.

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55 minutes ago, GMac said:

Stay up via the play off - he has to go.   Relegated - he has to go.

 

 

 

My worry is if we stay up he will keep his job but I don't want us to go down just to see the back of him w.hich is not guaranteed.

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14 hours ago, Cagey said:

My worry is if we stay up he will keep his job but I don't want us to go down just to see the back of him w.hich is not guaranteed.

I think he'll keep his job regardless of what happens. Even if we're in the Championship next season I think he'll still be in charge. The scary thing is I don't think our performances would be any better in a lower league. We all saw this season how we struggled to score against Arbroath and Kelty. If we go down we could very easily do a Hamilton and end up in the bottom half of that league too. And just imagine how low our crowds would get if that was to happen. I can't help but feel that getting relegated would be absolutely disastrous for us.

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I can fully acknowledge if people don't feel now is the time for change. There are good points that have been made in that regard. I would even accept a change is probably no more likely to keep us up but that's kind of my reasoning, we are just treading water until hopefully making a proactive decision in a few weeks. But why not start moving forward now? 

There isn't an argument to be won or lost on timing because there is no right answer. But he can't be manager next season. Saying that doesn't diminish his place in history or if people want to call him a legend. But equally, as someone else pointed out, no one is bigger than the club. 

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2 hours ago, Radford 72 said:

I can fully acknowledge if people don't feel now is the time for change. There are good points that have been made in that regard. I would even accept a change is probably no more likely to keep us up but that's kind of my reasoning, we are just treading water until hopefully making a proactive decision in a few weeks. But why not start moving forward now? 

There isn't an argument to be won or lost on timing because there is no right answer. But he can't be manager next season. Saying that doesn't diminish his place in history or if people want to call him a legend. But equally, as someone else pointed out, no one is bigger than the club. 

Best case scenario is that we stay up and then we part company, he will always be a Saintees legend and the success last season will go down in my opinion as one of the greatest achievements in Scottish football history.

Our transfer windows have been horrible the days of us being able to pick up a Sergie, Kernaghan, Jenkinson etc are long gone, so a clean slate is what’s required.

Will it work who knows but we are almost at rock bottom and the momentum we should of had after the double hadn’t occurred and a big part of that is down to CD unfortunately.

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