Tranmere Saintee Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 Having a defence in front of you that parts like the Dead Sea every time the opposition come close must be a nightmare for every keeper. Saintdunc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintJet Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 37 minutes ago, Pat McGroin said: I’m not actually blaming him for the goals tonight, but the stats don’t lie. He saves next to nothing. Knowing you have a keeper behind you that concedes 1 in every 2 shots on target must play on the mind of every defender, and I’m damn sure they know. Utter tosh! I'm sick tothe back teeth of everybody and their dog piling on. The defense have been very patchy and there is no commanding figure at the back leading the way. It's easy to pick on the easy target but some of Zanders saves have got us points - away at Ross for instance. Saintdunc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny B Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 42 minutes ago, Pat McGroin said: Are you fishing again or seriously blaming him for the second Some will some will not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cagey Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, SaintJet said: Utter tosh! I'm sick tothe back teeth of everybody and their dog piling on. The defense have been very patchy and there is no commanding figure at the back leading the way. It's easy to pick on the easy target but some of Zanders saves have got us points - away at Ross for instance. Wow ,one point compared to the amount he has lost us. A goalkeeper should command his area & defence. With a confident & competent keeper behind them I would say we had one of the best defenses in the league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny B Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, SaintJet said: there is no commanding figure I said this last season we do have good young defenders. All apprentices and no senior tradesman to teach and mould them on the park. Nothing has changed. From what I hear Gordon is the one doing all the shouting but he is little experience of leading a defensive unit.. I used the example of (Rangers)David Wier teaching and coaching Danny Wilson during a game and controlling the defence. So much so he made Wilson look like a superstar. He got a move to Liverpool and we all know what happened next.. This could be our problem all good young defenders and not tradesman to talk them through the game. SaintJet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintJet Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 31 minutes ago, Cagey said: Wow ,one point compared to the amount he has lost us. A goalkeeper should command his area & defence. With a confident & competent keeper behind them I would say we had one of the best defenses in the league We'll have to agree to disagree. The defending at the first United goal was shocking. We don't seem to be tracking players like we used to and I've seen this over and over all season. Zander has lost a bit of confidence but good defending as a unit can change that in a heartbeat. We have good defenders but we need to be doing the hard graft and chase the opposition down. Scott1884 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cagey Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 25 minutes ago, SaintJet said: We'll have to agree to disagree. The defending at the first United goal was shocking. We don't seem to be tracking players like we used to and I've seen this over and over all season. Zander has lost a bit of confidence but good defending as a unit can change that in a heartbeat. We have good defenders but we need to be doing the hard graft and chase the opposition down. Agree about the first goal. Holding midfielder should be dealing with goalscorer. I was Zanders biggest fan a couple of years ago but not sure if he can get it back again. Not much he could do with Shanklands goal though. On another day it hits or goes over the bar,or Zander gets an easy catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintdunc Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) Just google ‘players who have scored from the half way line’ and you will see quite a few decent keepers who have been beaten from that distance. Zander just joins the long list. Yeah it was good, but blaming him is nonsense. I am sure all those keepers would have been shaking their heads but I bet there are hundreds of attempts that ended up failing to hit the target. Speculative and opportunistic from Shankland, but doesn’t require any great skill, only luck. Edited January 13, 2021 by Saintdunc south inch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.B.B:- Adz Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 6 hours ago, SaintJet said: Utter tosh! I'm sick tothe back teeth of everybody and their dog piling on. The defense have been very patchy and there is no commanding figure at the back leading the way. It's easy to pick on the easy target but some of Zanders saves have got us points - away at Ross for instance. You’re the one talking utter tosh on this one I’m afraid. The stats don’t lie. Also, to keep it simple, I urge you to watch these highlights: In a nutshell our currently problem is exemplified by the situation at 1:30 vs the situation at 5:30. Dundee United first goal and Melamed’s late chance were almost identical. If anything, Melamed’s was a better finish. What was the only difference, Sietgrist saved Melamed’s shot, Zander didn’t save Appere’s trickler... Please tell me I am wrong after watching the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintJet Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 19 minutes ago, R.B.B:- Adz said: You’re the one talking utter tosh on this one I’m afraid. The stats don’t lie. Also, to keep it simple, I urge you to watch these highlights: In a nutshell our currently problem is exemplified by the situation at 1:30 vs the situation at 5:30. Dundee United first goal and Melamed’s late chance were almost identical. If anything, Melamed’s was a better finish. What was the only difference, Sietgrist saved Melamed’s shot, Zander didn’t save Appere’s trickler... Please tell me I am wrong after watching the above. I'm sorry I can't agree. Zander was off balance and Siegfried or whatever he's called was a reactionary save. But the point is if you want to find faults you can pick away until you find faults. If Zander is so much of a liability I can't see how he can pull the wool over CD and the coaching staff week after week. I'll be the first to admit that I'll give our players the benifit of the doubt becasue I can't stand fans berating their players - I've seen it from the stands and frankly it makes me a wee bit ashamed. I was at Fir park last season when a handful of "fans" roasted Zander at every chance and despite him rising above it you can't tell me that doesn't affect players. He's still a young lad and still learning and when he regains his confidence which will come with our defense getting more water tight he'll be the goalie he was a couple of seasons ago when he beat Manus to the no.1 job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat McGroin Posted January 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 6 hours ago, SaintJet said: Utter tosh! I'm sick tothe back teeth of everybody and their dog piling on. The defense have been very patchy and there is no commanding figure at the back leading the way. It's easy to pick on the easy target but some of Zanders saves have got us points - away at Ross for instance. It’s not Tosh. Quite frankly, right now I’d even give Steve Tosh a chance between the sticks. There are guys that collate these stats and Zander’s are a disgrace for a keeper at any level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.B.B:- Adz Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, SaintJet said: I'm sorry I can't agree. Zander was off balance and Siegfried or whatever he's called was a reactionary save. But the point is if you want to find faults you can pick away until you find faults. If Zander is so much of a liability I can't see how he can pull the wool over CD and the coaching staff week after week. I'll be the first to admit that I'll give our players the benifit of the doubt becasue I can't stand fans berating their players - I've seen it from the stands and frankly it makes me a wee bit ashamed. I was at Fir park last season when a handful of "fans" roasted Zander at every chance and despite him rising above it you can't tell me that doesn't affect players. He's still a young lad and still learning and when he regains his confidence which will come with our defense getting more water tight he'll be the goalie he was a couple of seasons ago when he beat Manus to the no.1 job. I can assure you that I am never one who berates our players during a match, and you wouldn’t have to look too far back on this forum (18 months maybe) where I was very happy with Zander as our keeper. The bottom line is, he doesn’t save enough shots on his goal, compared to other goalkeepers in the anyway. That means we lose more matches than we should. Furthermore, just because CD doesn’t have the resources to sign a keeper he deems to be better than Zander, doesn’t mean that Zander is a keeper performing well this season. Edited January 13, 2021 by R.B.B:- Adz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abernethy Saint Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 Would Tommy have dropped him for Parish by now? Think he probably would have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintJet Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, R.B.B:- Adz said: I can assure you that I am never ones who berates our players during a match, and you wouldn’t have to look too far back on this forum (18 months maybe) where I was very happy with Zander as our keep. The bottom line is, he doesn’t save enough shots on his goal, compared to other goalkeepers in the anyway. That means we lose more matches than we should. Furthermore, just because CD doesn’t have the resources to sign a keeper he seems to be better than Zander, doesn’t mean that Zander is a keeper performing well this season. Fair comment. I don't think Zander has performed well this season but I don't think the defense have played well this season and they are intrinsically linked. I think he'll go on to prove folk wrong and you strike me as somone who would applaud that if it comes to pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rik2304 Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 19 minutes ago, SaintJet said: I'm sorry I can't agree. Zander was off balance and Siegfried or whatever he's called was a reactionary save. But the point is if you want to find faults you can pick away until you find faults. If Zander is so much of a liability I can't see how he can pull the wool over CD and the coaching staff week after week. I'll be the first to admit that I'll give our players the benifit of the doubt becasue I can't stand fans berating their players - I've seen it from the stands and frankly it makes me a wee bit ashamed. I was at Fir park last season when a handful of "fans" roasted Zander at every chance and despite him rising above it you can't tell me that doesn't affect players. He's still a young lad and still learning and when he regains his confidence which will come with our defense getting more water tight he'll be the goalie he was a couple of seasons ago when he beat Manus to the no.1 job. He's 28! Unless he shapes up he should be binned. His position is too important and he's playing poorly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.B.B:- Adz Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 9 minutes ago, SaintJet said: Fair comment. I don't think Zander has performed well this season but I don't think the defense have played well this season and they are intrinsically linked. I think he'll go on to prove folk wrong and you strike me as somone who would applaud that if it comes to pass. Absolutely I would. I’d be over the moon. But the bottom line is he is not playing well enough for the football team that I love and support and I am calling it out for what it is. The example I am giving is Livingston. They have only conceded six goals in their last 12 games... we have conceded 20 goals in our last 12 games!!!!! We as fans are well within our rights to criticise that and I like stats. Particularly ones that are as straightforward to understand as Scottish Premiership Goalkeeping Shots on Target Save %.... Zander is bottom. Last! Behind every other keeper in the league including those at Hamilton, Ross County, St.Mirren... you’re not trying to tell me that ANY of those teams have a defender that you would swap for any of ours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cagey Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 30 minutes ago, SaintJet said: I'm sorry I can't agree. Zander was off balance and Siegfried or whatever he's called was a reactionary save. But the point is if you want to find faults you can pick away until you find faults. If Zander is so much of a liability I can't see how he can pull the wool over CD and the coaching staff week after week. I'll be the first to admit that I'll give our players the benifit of the doubt becasue I can't stand fans berating their players - I've seen it from the stands and frankly it makes me a wee bit ashamed. I was at Fir park last season when a handful of "fans" roasted Zander at every chance and despite him rising above it you can't tell me that doesn't affect players. He's still a young lad and still learning and when he regains his confidence which will come with our defense getting more water tight he'll be the goalie he was a couple of seasons ago when he beat Manus to the no.1 job. Young lad ¿. At 28 a goalie should be in his prime not gradually going backwards. First goal,Rooney was going to clear it off the line if Zander hadn't reverted it. Maybe a point for not having a goalie & having an additional defender. SPFL wouldn't allow it unfortunately but at the moment we have a goalie that's not saving goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat McGroin Posted January 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 18 minutes ago, SaintJet said: Fair comment. I don't think Zander has performed well this season but I don't think the defense have played well this season and they are intrinsically linked. I think he'll go on to prove folk wrong and you strike me as somone who would applaud that if it comes to pass. I’d be delighted if Zander turned his form around but he’s been poor for over a year now. I just don’t see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linky Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 This club is very loyal to players, which has positives and negatives. One negative can be that, if Clark is considered a first-team player (on a first-team wage) it's very unlikely he'd be replaced unless someone comes in with an offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south inch Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 As is normal with supporters of all clubs we pick fault with our defenders when we lose goals but tend to praise our players when we score. Have a look at our goals last night. For the first we put a good cross over, Guy makes room for himself and puts in a good header. You could, however, say that his marker loses him and as for the keeper he is doing a pretty good impersonation of Ray Clemence when Dalglish scored a famous goal for Scotland many many moons ago. For the second the cross is again good and there is not much anyone could do to stop Kane rising to the ball and sending in a well directed header. But the commentators are critical of United for giving the ball away in the lead up to the cross. Most sports/games would make pretty sterile watching if nobody ever made a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.B.B:- Adz Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 20 hours ago, St. Paddy said: Im thinking thats unfair. He has previously been a very good keeper for us, but in the last couple of years, for what ever reason (coaching? Lack of competition?) he has been distinctly average. Last couple of games he has looked like the Zander of old, but tonight i cant fault him for either goal. 1st point blank shot thru a couple of bodies, 2nd a wonder goal that 9 outta 10 is over the roof of the stand. Have you watched the first goal again??? Scroll to 1 minute 40 seconds for their goal and 5 minutes 30 seconds for Melamed’s shot that gets saved. Compare how Zander deals with their first goal to how Siegrist deals with Melamed’s late chance. Night and day!! Our keeper is poor at stopping the ball going in the back of the net. Bottom line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.B.B:- Adz Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 23 hours ago, Saintdunc said: Happens to the best of them. Shankland wasn’t the first and no doubt will not be the last to take a speculative punt. 22 hours ago, mainstand said: Are you fishing again or seriously blaming him for the second his positioning is where I expect most goalies would be when his team is at half way ready to get any through balls. 10 hours ago, Saintdunc said: Yeah it was good, but blaming him is nonsense. I am sure all those keepers would have been shaking their heads but I bet there are hundreds of attempts that ended up failing to hit the target. Speculative and opportunistic from Shankland, but doesn’t require any great skill, only luck. Shankland himself has stated that he noticed Zander had been too far off his line earlier in the game and knew it was worth trying due to Zander’s choice of positioning. Saintdunc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 7 hours ago, Abernethy Saint said: Would Tommy have dropped him for Parish by now? Think he probably would have. He didn't last season, when Clark was chucking goals in weekly. Goal we conceded at home to Motherwell last season is unlikely to ever be matched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintgscot Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 Guy Melamed nutmeg a keeper with a header what a player haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.B.B:- Adz Posted January 14, 2021 Report Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 hour ago, RandomGuy said: He didn't last season, when Clark was chucking goals in weekly. Goal we conceded at home to Motherwell last season is unlikely to ever be matched. Was that their one and only shot on target that match by any chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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