Zander


Pat McGroin
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3 minutes ago, mainstand said:

Lies lies damned lies and statistics.

Your stats are great but in my view mean SFA. 

I mean, it's literally just dividing the shots he faces with the goals he concedes.

There's literally nothing about it that's not factual.

Edited by RandomGuy
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I was diagnosed with high blood pressure recently, and I have no doubt that it has mainly been caused by reading posts from Cagey and mainstand on We Are Perth. If they could inform me that it's purely satirical (even if that's untrue), it would be the kindest thing to do for the sake of my health.

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1 hour ago, Radford 72 said:

It's the same stuff whenever a player is criticised. Need a hate figure, all players in that position are criticised by our dreadful fans etc... 

The irony is that the very people trying to dispute black and white evidence are the ones fabricating claims like above. 

Alan Mannus did have a dip in form in his Saints career and was replaced by Zander Clark, as should happen when a player isn't performing well or to standards set. What happened was that Mannus raised his game and won the shirt back, after which both goalkeepers seemed to bring the best out of each other.

Without going back over the whole thread, I'd suggest virtually all the posts being critical of Clark set out the reasons why. Maybe, instead of just criticising those making the posts and endulging in whataboutery, those backing the goalkeeper could make the case for why he's, in their eyes, playing to an acceptable standard and is above criticism. Anyone? 

I have said I saw a deterioration of Zander in the past two years, whether due to coaching, lack of competition or simply confidence.

Stats have been supplied which would back this up.

I also feel he has improved in the last three or four games, and that it was unfair to castigate him for the 1st utd goal.  This is, to me, blindly assuming that because he has performed below the levels he has previously attained, that its OK to blame him for that one as well.

Others were more responsible in the build up.

Would I like to see a better keeper? Of course. Do I think some one is likely to be brought in in the next six months?  Next to no chance of that.

we are "stuck" with him, so is it useful to try to find fault in everything he is involved in?

He is not above criticism,  but save it for when he has thrown in the inevitable howler.

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1 minute ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

Many that voted Brexit appeared to ignore the abundance of irrefutable facts, preferring instead to pin their hopes on fantasy, blind faith and hyperbole. 

Yes and half of them listened to stats and bull provided by some that used information to suit their arguements. So thanks Nigel :laugh::razz:

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Andrew’s comment about defenders blocking shots could be relevant. Do such shots, if on target,  count for that metric?  I assume not, in which case a goalkeeper with players in front of him who do a good job of blocking such attempts is going to face fewer on target shots than similar in a team with defence that do not manage such blocks. perhaps a more meaningful measure is one that combines shot attempts saved AND blocked against goals scored?

A further musing, are shots that do get through a good defence more likely to produce a goal? Has one bit of play from the opponents led to a high probability goal chance (like the goal by Brighton I think yesterday)?
not supporting or castigating Zander, sitting squarely on the fence.....:)

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15 minutes ago, mainstand said:

Yes and half of them listened to stats and bull provided by some that used information to suit their arguements. So thanks Nigel :laugh::razz:

Touché 

 

However, I wait with bated breath for you to furnish me with the facts that show that Zander is having a good season, Govey.

Edited by R.B.B:- Adz
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17 minutes ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

Many that voted Brexit appeared to ignore the abundance of irrefutable facts, preferring instead to pin their hopes on fantasy, blind faith and hyperbole. 

Confucius he say "one man's irrefutable facts are another man's fantasy, blind faith and hyperbole".

PS No I didn't vote Brexit 

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I think the way we've played in recent seasons have covered some of Clark's issues. However, with the change of formation and style of play, these have been laid bare. Unfortunately there is almost zero chance the club would every do anything about it: he's a home-grown player on a first-team wage.

Having said this, yesterday he looked better. I think he needs a decent back-up 'keeper to push him for the place.

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1 hour ago, Pat McGroin said:

Dinnae say that. Someone will be along to move your post to parts of the forum where very few tread! 

 

31 minutes ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

Touché 

 

However, I wait with bated breath for you to furnish me with the facts that show that Zander is having a good season, Govey.

“Govey” is a keeper.

:mrgreen:

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1 hour ago, dunblanemike said:

Andrew’s comment about defenders blocking shots could be relevant. Do such shots, if on target,  count for that metric?  I assume not, in which case a goalkeeper with players in front of him who do a good job of blocking such attempts is going to face fewer on target shots than similar in a team with defence that do not manage such blocks. perhaps a more meaningful measure is one that combines shot attempts saved AND blocked against goals scored?

A further musing, are shots that do get through a good defence more likely to produce a goal? Has one bit of play from the opponents led to a high probability goal chance (like the goal by Brighton I think yesterday)?
not supporting or castigating Zander, sitting squarely on the fence.....:)

Blocked shots are counted.

Zander Clark concedes a goal every 1.96 shots opponents take. Not just shots on target.

Edited by RandomGuy
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3 hours ago, mainstand said:

Lies lies damned lies and statistics.

Your stats are great but in my view mean SFA. 

I'm with you MS. Statistics are for losers!

If Saints made tires or some commodity worth mass manufacture I would see the relevance in these spending time researching stats.

We are a football team and the goalie is the one spot in  the team where there is no one else to blame in that area.

Get behind the laddie. His saves took us to the semi on Saturday and he'll be a key player for us.

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4 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Blocked shots are counted.

Zander Clark concedes a goal every 1.96 shots faced this season. Not just shots on target.

Thanks randoom. So can we say saints defence is blocking a lower proportion of shots than other teams?  
take a hypothetical situation. Rounding that figure to 2, a team that has 6 shots on target will score 3 goals against us by that measure.  Have I got that correct?  So the other three shots, were they saved by the keeper or blocked by defenders?  In the situation where all 3 blocked by defenders then keeper has actually faced 3 shots and let in 3!

To me this measure is therefore a reflection of the whole teams defence, not just the keeper. Am I missing something?

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7 minutes ago, dunblanemike said:

Thanks randoom. So can we say saints defence is blocking a lower proportion of shots than other teams?  
take a hypothetical situation. Rounding that figure to 2, a team that has 6 shots on target will score 3 goals against us by that measure.  Have I got that correct?  So the other three shots, were they saved by the keeper or blocked by defenders?  In the situation where all 3 blocked by defenders then keeper has actually faced 3 shots and let in 3!

To me this measure is therefore a reflection of the whole teams defence, not just the keeper. Am I missing something?

Saints block 28.3% of shots faced, the 6th highest in the league.

Clark faces, including those blocked shots, 2.78 shots per match.

Clark concedes a goal every 1.96 shots.

If you remove the shots blocked by defenders, then Clark is facing 2 shots every match, and conceding every 1.96 shots, meaning we're on course to concede a goal every game he plays. Hes only made more than 2 saves in a match twice this season, away to Celtic, and away to County. The 0-0 draw with Hamilton is the only game wheres hes faced more than 1 shot and kept a clean sheet.

If you believe xG figures, hes already cost us 6/7 goals this season by conceding when the average keeper wouldn't.

Ross McCrorie at Livingston was similarly poor this season, but their replacement keeper Stryjek has some of the best figures this season behind the same defence.

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2 hours ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

Touché 

 

However, I wait with bated breath for you to furnish me with the facts that show that Zander is having a good season, Govey.

Not saying he is having a good season, you are obviously a politician if you are taking what I am saying as meaning that. 

What I am saying is that looking at stats in isolation means nothing.  You have to consider it in full, how many blocks how many shots are from inside the box, is it that shots from outside are being blocked and the majority of shots he is facing is form inside box. How many are from headers at set pieces, how many are deflected.

I could go on.  

As I said previously you can make stats show what ever you want. yesterday was a prime example one commentator saints have not won in 11, another saints are looking to go 4 unbeaten. 

 

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3 minutes ago, mainstand said:

What I am saying is that looking at stats in isolation means nothing.  You have to consider it in full, how many blocks how many shots are from inside the box, is it that shots from outside are being blocked and the majority of shots he is facing is form inside box. How many are from headers at set pieces, how many are deflected.

xG takes all that into account, and also has him as the worst keeper in the league and costing us goals.

In total just under 7 goals this season compared to the average keeper.

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1 hour ago, RandomGuy said:

Blocked shots are counted.

Zander Clark concedes a goal every 1.96 shots opponents take. Not just shots on target.

In our last 6 games, according to the BBC, our opponents have taken 50 shots at our goal and Zander has conceded 8 goals.  Your statement above is either wrong or your information source uses a different measurement system.

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1 minute ago, south inch said:

In our last 6 games, according to the BBC, our opponents have taken 50 shots at our goal and Zander has conceded 8 goals.  Your statement above is either wrong or your information source uses a different measurement system.

I use WyScout.

They have him facing 47 shots in total over that period, 17 shots on target, and conceding 8 goals.

Potentially they've not updated their glossary and are only using shots on target, but are still claiming its all shots?

I'll double check.

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