Linky

January 2021 Transfer Window

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On 27/01/2021 at 3:23 PM, Linky said:

The rumour I heard is that we tried to get Jones & Stewart on loan from Rangers. Both said no, so we're going for Middleton and Gilmour instead.

I would find this bizarre. 

You target two players more than proven in this league, one a full international and the other a former Player of the Year nominee, and end up with a guy who has started 4 league games for Rangers and a player who has never started a domestic British game. Seems some turnaround from the initial targets. 

Gilmour is maybe worth a gamble but there has been no long-term thinking in our transfer strategy this season. If we lose players in the summer, there is going to be a lot of work to do. 

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7 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

No.

Is there any attainable striker that would score goals in our preferred system? 

Think Jason Cummings is a great signing for Dundee. Will build up his confidence in the Championship and take that into the Premiership if they get promoted. 

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30 minutes ago, Templar Saint said:

Dundee sign Jason Cummings.

Would he been an option for our goal scoring problem or not??

In a time of no crowds Dundee seem to be spending even more than before.

They might get a play of place & even if they get through that they have to best second bottom premiership team.

Huge financial gamble. Look where it got United who they might meet in play of.

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It’s a big signing for Dundee. I think any club, rightly or wrongly, in the bottom 6 would’ve been willing to take a chance on him if the price was right. It’s hard to tell if he’ll be a success or it’ll go horribly wrong.

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52 minutes ago, Radford 72 said:

Is there any attainable striker that would score goals in our preferred system? 

Did Kane receive a single pass in the box last night? 

I've never really been sure what the plan is to get strikers scoring in the 5-2-3 tbh. They spend the whole match pretty isolated. I'm genuinely struggling to think of a game a striker has scored in while playing that formation, aside from May away to Hamilton. Did Kane score v St Mirren while we played it?

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33 minutes ago, Linky said:

It’s a big signing for Dundee. I think any club, rightly or wrongly, in the bottom 6 would’ve been willing to take a chance on him if the price was right. 

Doubt it, tbh. His goal return is dreadful, aside from a few seasons in the second tier with Hibs, yet he would still demand a wage likely higher than all our strikers perhaps bar May. How many teams desperate for a proven goalscorer would go after him?

@Radford 72 mentioned him before, but George Oakley would've been a better signing than Jason Cummings. Proven performer at this level, hard working, aerial threat, and cheaper. 

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7 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Did Kane receive a single pass in the box last night? 

Touched the ball once in the box all night. The positive at least was that the touches he did have were fairly central, as opposed to what we've seen at times when May has started and everything is out wide.

You can kind of envisage what sort of striker you need for the system. You can't envisage that sort of striker being attainable for Saints. 

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9 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Doubt it, tbh. His goal return is dreadful, aside from a few seasons in the second tier with Hibs, yet he would still demand a wage likely higher than all our strikers perhaps bar May. How many teams desperate for a proven goalscorer would go after him?

@Radford 72 mentioned him before, but George Oakley would've been a better signing than Jason Cummings. Proven performer at this level, hard working, aerial threat, and cheaper. 

I would suggest the likes of Hamilton, Ross County, St. Mirren, Killie would all be happy with him in their team, if the price was right.

Ross County have just signed a striker from Motherwell who played 18 games for them this season and scored no goals & made no assists. In fact, he only scored 7 goals in the Championship last season. Livingston signed Gavin Reilly who scored no goals in League 2 this season & only 4 last season. St. Mirren signed a striker who hasn't scored a goal in almost 2 years. I think they'd all bite your hand off for Cummings on a wage they could afford. His recent goalscoring form isn't any better than these guys, but at least he's scored a lot of goals at some point in his career. I imagine Dundee it's just that are willing to pay more.

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52 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Did Kane receive a single pass in the box last night? 

I've never really been sure what the plan is to get strikers scoring in the 5-2-3 tbh. They spend the whole match pretty isolated. I'm genuinely struggling to think of a game a striker has scored in while playing that formation, aside from May away to Hamilton. Did Kane score v St Mirren while we played it?

Livi are proof that you can do pretty well without a goalscoring striker.

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4 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

Did Kane receive a single pass in the box last night? 

I've never really been sure what the plan is to get strikers scoring in the 5-2-3 tbh. They spend the whole match pretty isolated. I'm genuinely struggling to think of a game a striker has scored in while playing that formation, aside from May away to Hamilton. Did Kane score v St Mirren while we played it?

Was saying to mates he needs likes of melamed. The games he has played up front and gets the ball and looks to flick it or pass it on and nobody there to get it.

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11 hours ago, Linky said:

I would suggest the likes of Hamilton, Ross County, St. Mirren, Killie would all be happy with him in their team, if the price was right.

Yeah, but the price wouldn't be, because Cummings would be expecting top 6 level wages despite being nowhere near that level in terms of career so far.

He could do well for Dundee in the Championship, but he couldn't even score regularly for Rangers in the top flight.

1 hour ago, Johnny B said:

Kane was back to his usual self working hard running all over the park. But not a strike at goal. Lone striker he is not.

That's more on this 5-2-3 than the player. Have Hendry/May looked any different playing as a lone striker in it?

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3 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:
4 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

That's more on this 5-2-3 than the player. Have Hendry/May looked any different playing as a lone striker in it?

 

No they have not. The point is who ever plays lone striker fails to impress. So why play with one. For someone who likes stats Kane is the only player in our top 5 scorers who does not have an assist. At times an assist is as good as a goal for a striker

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I wonder what Kane Hemmings thinks of Dundee signing Cummings, after they bullied him into taking a pay cut less than a year ago.

As far as Saints are concerned: I don't see the point of us trying to sign yet more strikers. We already have four strikers who can score goals. What we don't have is a system that works for any of them. We could sign 100 strikers but unless we do something to play to their strengths it will make zero difference.

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33 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

I wonder what Kane Hemmings thinks of Dundee signing Cummings, after they bullied him into taking a pay cut less than a year ago.

As far as Saints are concerned: I don't see the point of us trying to sign yet more strikers. We already have four strikers who can score goals. What we don't have is a system that works for any of them. We could sign 100 strikers but unless we do something to play to their strengths it will make zero difference.

Exactly.

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The finances at Dundee (as always) are certainly interesting. It's hard to see how Cummings fits into this reduced wage structure and I see McPake is talking about how they had to "get creative" which is the same way he spoke about he Charlie Adam deal, where outside investors are subsidising his wage. 

Dundee certainly aren't alone but there seems little attempt to balance the books, with Timothy Keyes happy to cover any shortfall come the end of each season. As said, he's far from the only guy in Scottish football doing that though. Saints are still run as they were 35 years ago where they don't spend what they don't have. We just have to work that but harder to make sure the signings are right. 

Agree about our strikers too. The only type we lack is a bigger presence but the manager has shown little inclination of adding that type. It's up to him to get a better tune out of the options he does have. 

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2 hours ago, Radford 72 said:

The finanaces at Dundee (as always) are certainly interesting. It's hard to see how Cummings fits into this reduced wage structure and I see McPake is talking about how they had to "get creative" which is the same way he spoke about he Charlie Adam deal, where outside investors are subsidising his wage. 

Dundee certainly aren't alone but there seems little attempt to balance the books, with Timothy Keyes happy to cover any shortfall come the end of each season. As said, he's far from the only guy in Scottish football doing that though. Saints are still run as they were 35 years ago where they don't spend what they don't have. We just have to work that but harder to make sure the signings are right. 

Agree about our strikers too. The only type we lack is a bigger presence but the manager has shown little inclination of adding that type. It's up to him to get a better tune out of the options he does have. 

I'm not against not signing a big guy up top. The temptation would simply to go long every time and hope that he wins it, I get there was some of that against Aberdeen, but you were playing without the 2 guys in the team who take the ball on the turn and between the lines to link play. I don't want us to become a long ball team, we actually play nice football up until the final third, some of our passing moves this season would never have been seen under Wright. It would also mean a return to the aimless balls into the box which we don't want.

I think our strikers would score more goals than they do now (albeit maybe not enough) if we had someone creative in the team, other than Wotherspoon. His output this season has been excellent and it's a bit of a travesty he's not top of the PotY polls, he's been our best player this season easily. If you had his equal or equivalent up top or out wide then you'd end up creating a lot more in and around the box, whilst committing opposition players. None of this team, with the exception of Spoony ever force opposition defenders to actually defend one on one. Hopefully Middleton changes that, but you look at Kane, May, Conway, not one of them ever faces up a defender and runs at them. In this team the only one who regularly does is Shaun Rooney! Let's not get me started on O'Halloran, he can barely stay on his feet these days with nobody around him. 

So in theory I agree with you last statement, the strikers whilst carrying some of the problem are not in isolation. It's the team behind them that causes them to be ineffective, coupled with their own failings. Would Leigh Griffiths score more goals than the players we have, yes he would. Would he score more as a result of being a better player, rather than a change of style dictated by him, yes I think he would. But even the best strikers in the league would be hampered by what they've got to work with.  

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