Saints Summer Transfers 2021

[Melbourne Saint]

I'd expect things will be a lot clearer before May (no pun intended) with regards to re-signs. KM kept on to assist getting offers through (or at least to a conclusion). We've reached our on field objectives (top 6 & cup run), so the club has a better view from the budget side.

I'm actually not that fazed about the players out of contract. I'm more concerned that someone comes in for Rooney or McCart. Our defence has been largely very good and instrumental in our cup run & top 6.

[Cagey]

Callum at the Dunfermline v Dundee game last night.

Don't think he would have seen anything to impress him.

May have been looking at Ashcroft.

Only player that had a decent game was the Pars right back.

Dodds gave McMullen man of the match ?. Probably the worst player on the pitch. Maybe it was him Callum was looking at.

[Widge]

45 minutes ago, Cagey said:

Dodds gave McMullen man of the match ?. Probably the worst player on the pitch. Maybe it was him Callum was looking at.

Why would Callum Davidson be looking at a player who's already signed a 2 year deal with Dundee from the start of next season? I look forward to this answer..

[Stumpy1949]

59 minutes ago, Widge said:

Why would Callum Davidson be looking at a player who's already signed a 2 year deal with Dundee from the start of next season? I look forward to this answer..

Also Ashcroft turned us down to join Dundee and the pars right back is ex-Saints Arron Comrie

[Cagey]

1 hour ago, Widge said:

Why would Callum Davidson be looking at a player who's already signed a 2 year deal with Dundee from the start of next season? I look forward to this answer..

I thought McMullen was only on loan from  United.

Sorry for not being up to date with the contract situation of every player in Scotland.

[Pat McGroin]

34 minutes ago, Stumpy1966 said:

Also Ashcroft turned us down to join Dundee and the pars right back is ex-Saints Arron Comrie

Ashcroft was training with us but was never offered a contract 

[R.B.B:- Adz]

13 hours ago, Melbourne Saint said:

 

I'm actually not that fazed about the players out of contract. I'm more concerned that someone comes in for Rooney or McCart. Our defence has been largely very good and instrumental in our cup run & top 6.

I’ve been banging the drum on this for quite a while now..

It would not have a massive impact on things if any one, two, three or four of Parish, O’Halloran, Kane, May, Hendry, Conway, Bryson moved on.

It would, however, have a massive impact on the club in both the short and long term if we managed to get Kerr, Gordon, McCart and Rooney (and to an admittedly lesser extent Booth) to sign contract extensions.

I’d happily pay double for my season ticket if I was told that this is what the money was being spent on and where the untouchable Kirsten Robertson and bulletproof Steve Brown were putting their energy.

[RandomGuy]

2 hours ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

I’ve been banging the drum on this for quite a while now..

It would not have a massive impact on things if any one, two, three or four of Parish, O’Halloran, Kane, May, Hendry, Conway, Bryson moved on.

It would, however, have a massive impact on the club in both the short and long term if we managed to get Kerr, Gordon, McCart and Rooney (and to an admittedly lesser extent Booth) to sign contract extensions.

I’d happily pay double for my season ticket if I was told that this is what the money was being spent on and where the untouchable Kirsten Robertson and bulletproof Steve Brown were putting their energy.

Aye, but what happens when they sacrifice a couple of players to offer Kerr/McCart/Rooney three times their wages, making them by far our highest earners, and they still reject it?

I'd guess folk like yourself would be here moaning the club didn't "do all they could" to keep them...

[Templar Saint]

13 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Aye, but what happens when they sacrifice a couple of players to offer Kerr/McCart/Rooney three times their wages, making them by far our highest earners, and they still reject it?

I'd guess folk like yourself would be here moaning the club didn't "do all they could" to keep them...

It's all down to timing.

If you were to offer extensions to these three on highest wages then you have a time limit on offer which expires before you decide on the players you are considering sacrificing.  

Then if knocked back you reconsider what you are doing with out of contract players.

[RandomGuy]

17 minutes ago, Templar Saint said:

It's all down to timing.

If you were to offer extensions to these three on highest wages then you have a time limit on offer which expires before you decide on the players you are considering sacrificing.  

Then if knocked back you reconsider what you are doing with out of contract players.

In a perfect world, yes. 

But just now we could've offered Rooney a new contract, he's verbally said yes but wants small changes. We think fine, we'll punt Bryson and that'll help.

Bryson asks if he's getting a new deal. We say we can't offer him yet. He goes elsewhere and gets a deal at another club.

Rooney gets told there's interest down south, clubs who are willing to wait until next Summer, with the promise Rooney/his agent will get a lump sum as it'll have saved a transfer fee.

Rooney then rejects the deal, we go back to Bryson, who isn't an option anymore.

We try and sign a competent CM this Summer, and end up with a kid on loan from the OF because no other player is willing to be back up to Craig/McCann/Wotherspoon without wanting higher wages than Bryson was on.

Its more complicated than it gets made out to be.

You've also got the issue that Kerr/McCart/Rooney probably don't want to be at Saints beyond next season. They're all at an age now where they'll want to take the next step up the ladder before it's top late.

[R.B.B:- Adz]

57 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Aye, but what happens when they sacrifice a couple of players to offer Kerr/McCart/Rooney three times their wages, making them by far our highest earners, and they still reject it?

I'd guess folk like yourself would be here moaning the club didn't "do all they could" to keep them...

Yet another fictitious scenario concocted and passed off as reality.

And you can stick your “folk like yourself” comment where the sun doesn’t shine.

[RandomGuy]

2 minutes ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

Yet another fictitious scenario concocted and passed off as reality.

And you can stick your “folk like yourself” comment where the sun doesn’t shine.

I'd be absolutely amazed if you're not one of many who come in here to slate the club when one of Rooney/Kerr/McCart having signed a new deal in 3 months while Bryson/Conway have.

[Templar Saint]

46 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

In a perfect world, yes. 

But just now we could've offered Rooney a new contract, he's verbally said yes but wants small changes. We think fine, we'll punt Bryson and that'll help.

Bryson asks if he's getting a new deal. We say we can't offer him yet. He goes elsewhere and gets a deal at another club.

Rooney gets told there's interest down south, clubs who are willing to wait until next Summer, with the promise Rooney/his agent will get a lump sum as it'll have saved a transfer fee.

Rooney then rejects the deal, we go back to Bryson, who isn't an option anymore.

We try and sign a competent CM this Summer, and end up with a kid on loan from the OF because no other player is willing to be back up to Craig/McCann/Wotherspoon without wanting higher wages than Bryson was on.

Its more complicated than it gets made out to be.

You've also got the issue that Kerr/McCart/Rooney probably don't want to be at Saints beyond next season. They're all at an age now where they'll want to take the next step up the ladder before it's top late.

If contract is not signed then the offer would become time expired.  

In Scots Law: " A contract is an agreement which creates or is intended to create a legal obligation between both parties, thus not all agreements are contracts"

Verbally saying yes but want small changes is a counter offer and not agreeing to the contract offered.  Unless signed contract it is still just an offer.

It is very easy to dream up scenarios but as I have said not signed no contract.

[RandomGuy]

20 minutes ago, Templar Saint said:

If contract is not signed then the offer would become time expired.  

In Scots Law: " A contract is an agreement which creates or is intended to create a legal obligation between both parties, thus not all agreements are contracts"

Verbally saying yes but want small changes is a counter offer and not agreeing to the contract offered.  Unless signed contract it is still just an offer.

It is very easy to dream up scenarios but as I have said not signed no contract.

You've missed the point entirely here.

Contracts with agents/players are verbally agreed before it's actually signed all the time. It takes multiple meetings with the players/agents to agree something, and they dont draw up a contract every time because, you know, they're working out the details during the meetings.

The club and Rooney will meet, discuss terms, then if they agree, the contract will be drawn up and signed at a later date.

[Templar Saint]

11 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

You've missed the point entirely here.

Contracts with agents/players are verbally agreed before it's actually signed all the time. It takes multiple meetings with the players/agents to agree something, and they dont draw up a contract every time because, you know, they're working out the details during the meetings.

The club and Rooney will meet, discuss terms, then if they agree, the contract will be drawn up and signed at a later date.

No you miss the point -  a verbal agreement is just that an agreement not a contract.

 

[Cagey]

Anyone got a list of players out of contract ?.

[RandomGuy]

58 minutes ago, Templar Saint said:

No you miss the point -  a verbal agreement is just that an agreement not a contract.

 

Yes, but everything doesn't perfectly line up, so its inevitable you'll have to make decisions based on verbal agreements at some point, otherwise you'd never sign anyone as the multiple other clubs hanging around every signing would swoop in.

[Rob]

Top six and League Cup winners. Not sure any of our players are going to find better clubs and get a game every week.

Sure they might get offered more money but the grass is not always greener and they could find themselves on the bench wherever they move to. 

[R.B.B:- Adz]

1 hour ago, Templar Saint said:

No you miss the point -  a verbal agreement is just that an agreement not a contract.

 

Stay calm Templar... it’s hard to discuss something with someone who just conjures up fictitious scenarios as if they are the truth.

You stick to reality, let Random witter on about his vivid imaginary story lines.

[Templar Saint]

Randoom

 

The topic was contract extensions so no danger of clubs hanging around swooping unless they meet our transfer fee figure. 

No need for club to allow to drag on at expense of signing/releasing other out of contract players.

 

 

 

[Melbourne Saint]

Oh well, regardless of the scenarios, at least with Covid, one of the oft used statements "agent/player/ his dog is on holidays and will respond once back" cannot be used. That always annoyed me as a thinly veiled, agricultural way of saying "give us 10 days to find a better deal". Contracts should, in theory, move faster. But someone will say their fax machine is broken.

[Melbourne Saint]

2 hours ago, Rob said:

Top six and League Cup winners. Not sure any of our players are going to find better clubs and get a game every week.

I think that is a good point with regards to Premier clubs, one I'm sure players (and agent's) will be aware of. Why move to Hibs/ Aberdeen even if they trounce us on wages? They'll never do anything more than a place in Europe (and fall to some obscure team from deepest frmr Yugoslavia) place 3-5th. Maybe a cup or two every 7-10 years. You'd be mad to go to a Scottish club. English LGE 1 & maybe some championship clubs. Better £££, chance of playing in a promotion side, maybe squirm into the Premier. 

[HOODLUM65]

14 hours ago, Cagey said:

Callum at the Dunfermline v Dundee game last night.

Don't think he would have seen anything to impress him.

May have been looking at Ashcroft.

Only player that had a decent game was the Pars right back.

Dodds gave McMullen man of the match ?. Probably the worst player on the pitch. Maybe it was him Callum was looking at.

The Pars right back Comrie was on Saints books from 2015 to 2019, made 14 appearances in the 1st team, as well as a couple of loan spells to lower league clubs.

[JiangsuedSainty]

8 hours ago, Templar Saint said:

If contract is not signed then the offer would become time expired.  

In Scots Law: " A contract is an agreement which creates or is intended to create a legal obligation between both parties, thus not all agreements are contracts"

Verbally saying yes but want small changes is a counter offer and not agreeing to the contract offered.  Unless signed contract it is still just an offer.

It is very easy to dream up scenarios but as I have said not signed no contract.

Just popping in to say this is pish and Scots law does recognise verbal agreements as contracts (other than in respect of property). The point isn't whether its written or verbal but whether it meets the conditions of a contract, including an intention to create a binding legal agreement, i.e. a contract. It doesn't therefore follow that all verbal agreements are binding contracts, but the possibility very much exists.

You are correct in respect of the small changes constituting a counter-offer and so precluding existence of a contract, but not that a contract must be written to be valid, effective, and binding. I disagree with you also about time expired - which will depend on the circumstances.

Obviously in practice will always be written for evidentiary purposes, but I couldn't let the error slide.

[RandomGuy]

11 hours ago, Templar Saint said:

Randoom

The topic was contract extensions so no danger of clubs hanging around swooping unless they meet our transfer fee figure. 

No need for club to allow to drag on at expense of signing/releasing other out of contract players.

Clubs interested in McCart/Kerr/Rooney will already be in their agents ear about the figures on offer.

Look around and you'll see a swathe of players who've played regularly at other clubs (Allan Campbell at Motherwell, for example), who have been rejecting new, improved, contracts for over 12 months. 

That's because he's well aware that English clubs will offer him more than Motherwell will, so there's no point signing a new deal with them. For all we know Kerr/McCart/Rooney have already decided they won't be staying at Saints beyond their current deals, so they'll simply point blank refuse any extension.

That was my entire point.