california_saintee

St Johnstone European campaign 2021-2022

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52 minutes ago, Cagey said:

Can anyone tell me whether I want Villareal or Man United  to win ? Cause it's all Greek to me.

The way I read it, Man United. Ultimately, the confusion come about because some usually reliable and clever bods are trying to figure out from the UEFA guidance what clubs would go where. Confusion is that conference league is new, so not 100% clear how uefa will apply some grey areas in their guidance.

Either way, I think a decision is made on teams tomorrow.

The worst case scenario would be having to wait on whether Juve, Barca and Real get booted out.

 

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1 hour ago, Abernethy Saint said:

I saw the penalties given out to those who changed their minds and left the Super League - surprisingly steep (all financial). If that is the benchmark, it wouldn’t be at all surprising if the 3 clubs standing by the Super League arnt absolutely hammered. Indeed, expulsion from the CL might be the least of their worries. 

Even if it happens (and it won't), they'll appeal it to CAS, and it won't be sorted in time to make a difference to Saints. 

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I do not understand either.

The Spanish cup winners Athletic Balboa finished 10th in league and go into Group stages as does Leicester City.

Man Utd already qualified for Champions League and the winners of tonight's game goes into Champions league. I fail to see why the outcome affects us in the Europa League

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13 minutes ago, Johnny B said:

I do not understand either.

The Spanish cup winners Athletic Balboa finished 10th in league and go into Group stages as does Leicester City.

Man Utd already qualified for Champions League and the winners of tonight's game goes into Champions league. I fail to see why the outcome affects us in the Europa League

It's as clear as mud.

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12 minutes ago, Johnny B said:

I do not understand either.

The Spanish cup winners Athletic Balboa finished 10th in league and go into Group stages as does Leicester City.

Man Utd already qualified for Champions League and the winners of tonight's game goes into Champions league. I fail to see why the outcome affects us in the Europa League

I think it's to do with the trickle down of qualification spots. Just now UEFA are hedging their bets and showing every club qualifying at the lowest possible level they can.

Villareal could end up in either the Conference League or Champions League depending on tonight result.

If Villareal win then they automatically qualify for the Champions League, which then bumps a team from the Champions League down into the Europa League, and pushes us back a round in the Qualifiers.

If Man U win, then Villareal go into the Conference League due to their league finish, and teams above them get bumped up a round.

That's my understanding of it.

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39 minutes ago, Johnny B said:

I do not understand either.

The Spanish cup winners Athletic Balboa finished 10th in league and go into Group stages as does Leicester City.

Man Utd already qualified for Champions League and the winners of tonight's game goes into Champions league. I fail to see why the outcome affects us in the Europa League

It's to do with a team taking up two spots in the list of clubs that qualify directly for the Champions League group stage.

Man Utd have already got a spot from their domestic league finish. The winners of the Europa League also get a spot.

If a team takes two spots, one of the spots gets filled with a different team, and there's a corresponding reshuffle.

So, if Man Utd, win today, the reshuffle rules for Champions League say that one of the group stage spots gets taken by the next highest ranked team that's already in that competition, and their vacant spot is filled by the next team, and so on. PSV Eindhoven and Galatasaray are two of the beneficiaries: They'd get byes into the next round of qualifiers.

The impact on Saints is subtle: We're in the the "Main Path" of qualifiers for Europa League, along with a couple of other diddy country cup winners. The three of us are due to play against three teams that drop out of one specific path in the the CL qualifiers. But, if the above shuffle happens, the number of teams that can drop down changes from 3 to 2 (because PSV and Galatasaray got byes).

With me so far? The problem UEFA has is that the rules are murky from this point. Everyone assumed that they'd just move Luzern from the conference league into our round to make up the numbers, but the latest suggestion is that they'll just give Saints a bye instead.

It's a grey area because there are conflicting guidelines, and they haven't hit this before because the conference league is new.

I think we need to hope for a Man Utd win, and then figure out who to bribe in Nyon.

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1 minute ago, california_saintee said:

It's to do with a team taking up two spots in the list of clubs that qualify directly for the Champions League group stage.

Man Utd have already got a spot from their domestic league finish. The winners of the Europa League also get a spot.

If a team takes two spots, one of the spots gets filled with a different team, and there's a corresponding reshuffle.

So, if Man Utd, win today, the reshuffle rules for Champions League say that one of the group stage spots gets taken by the next highest ranked team that's already in that competition, and their vacant spot is filled by the next team, and so on. PSV Eindhoven and Galatasaray are two of the beneficiaries: They'd get byes into the next round of qualifiers.

The impact on Saints is subtle: We're in the the "Main Path" of qualifiers for Europa League, along with a couple of other diddy country cup winners. The three of us are due to play against three teams that drop out of one specific path in the the CL qualifiers. But, if the above shuffle happens, the number of teams that can drop down changes from 3 to 2 (because PSV and Galatasaray got byes).

With me so far? The problem UEFA has is that the rules are murky from this point. Everyone assumed that they'd just move Luzern from the conference league into our round to make up the numbers, but the latest suggestion is that they'll just give Saints a bye instead.

It's a grey area because there are conflicting guidelines, and they haven't hit this before because the conference league is new.

I think we need to hope for a Man Utd win, and then figure out who to bribe in Nyon.

Oh and the potential reshuffle if the superleague clubs are kicked out and Villareal win the Europa today is:

- Barca and Real lose their CL spots, which are awarded to the next highest La Liga finishers

- Villareal move up to qualify for next seasons Europa League group stage instead of the conference league, through their "new" league position

- Then they win the EL today and qualify as a fifth Spanish team in next season's CL. Their spot in next season's EL group stages gets filled through a shuffle of teams already in the competition

- The reshuffle means that Saints get moved into the playoff round.

 

But this is all unlikely -- I can't see the superleague clubs being banned.

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28 minutes ago, california_saintee said:

It's to do with a team taking up two spots in the list of clubs that qualify directly for the Champions League group stage.

Man Utd have already got a spot from their domestic league finish. The winners of the Europa League also get a spot.

If a team takes two spots, one of the spots gets filled with a different team, and there's a corresponding reshuffle.

So, if Man Utd, win today, the reshuffle rules for Champions League say that one of the group stage spots gets taken by the next highest ranked team that's already in that competition, and their vacant spot is filled by the next team, and so on. PSV Eindhoven and Galatasaray are two of the beneficiaries: They'd get byes into the next round of qualifiers.

The impact on Saints is subtle: We're in the the "Main Path" of qualifiers for Europa League, along with a couple of other diddy country cup winners. The three of us are due to play against three teams that drop out of one specific path in the the CL qualifiers. But, if the above shuffle happens, the number of teams that can drop down changes from 3 to 2 (because PSV and Galatasaray got byes).

With me so far? The problem UEFA has is that the rules are murky from this point. Everyone assumed that they'd just move Luzern from the conference league into our round to make up the numbers, but the latest suggestion is that they'll just give Saints a bye instead.

It's a grey area because there are conflicting guidelines, and they haven't hit this before because the conference league is new.

I think we need to hope for a Man Utd win, and then figure out who to bribe in Nyon.

Great work CS, will be watching the score tonight 

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41 minutes ago, california_saintee said:

I think we need to hope for a Man Utd win, and then figure out who to bribe in Nyon.

Thanks very well explained. I will be cheering on Utd

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Barca/Real/Juve bring too much money in for UEFA to fully kick them out. At worst they may be dropped down to EL/Conference, which would barely be a punishment as it vastly increases their chances of winning an, albeit lower, trophy. While this would probably promote us to the EL Playoff round, beyond that it may be a hindrance, as their presence at the lower levels of competition, and the resulting effect on seedings throughout the tournament, would ultimately result in a more difficult draw for us.

Also, as California suggests, there's a fair chance that they would appeal it through CAS, we may end up playing and winning games just to get shafted when they have to re-jig it all following the appeals.

Sorry if this is a bit pessimistic, but clubs like ours benefitting at the expense of the huge European clubs is not something EUFA are famed for.

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1 minute ago, Bruno Strasser said:

Will we be in the first or second qualifying round ? The ties are in July and I won't be able to make it then. Any ideas ?

No, it's probably the third with games August 5th and 12th.

There's maybe a sneaky chance that we get a bye into the next round (playoffs) with games August 19th & 26th. See above for the complicated details.

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Do they not know we won the double and are one of the greatest teams of all time and so really unless we get a bye then they will look a bit daft. :laugh:

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32 minutes ago, california_saintee said:

Oh for ****s sake Man U. 

 

32 minutes ago, california_saintee said:

Oh for ****s sake Man U. 

No Maguire and they have De Gea in goal tonight!

Edited by Saintdunc

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