Steve Brown

[Denzil]

2 hours ago, garydavidson said:

How many are out of contract at the end of the season? January could be a massive window and it's notoriously difficult!

Player contracts up 31 May 2022:

Shaun Rooney

Liam Gordon

Jamie McCart

Zander Clark

Craig Bryson

Callum Booth

Liam Craig

Callum Hendry

Murray Davidson

Elliot Parish

 

January has the potential now to be utterly catastrophic. Thoroughly depressed now.

[ex-montrosesaintee]

I'd also be very surprised if Callum is here beyond Christmas too.

[Cagey]

36 minutes ago, aagb1884 said:

Looking back at his record:

• Stevie May scores 27 goals in 2013-14, and goes for around £800k + add ons. The transfer was accepted by the chairman with May unclear as to whether he was staying or going (comparison: Nisbet scored 18 goals last season, Hibs rejected a transfer request for him and value him at £5 mill)
• Failure to use the Scottish Cup win as a platform for...anything really.
• Hires Roddy Grant to do...something? On a decent wage anyway.
• Hires Kirsten Robertson to basically do the day to day work of being chairman because he can't be ****ed with it
• Drey Wright is one of many players who wants to stay, the manager wants them to stay, but negotiations are so slow and frustrating that he leaves
• Stevie May returns, held up by his agent demanding an extra condition on his contact, and rather than simply go 'No' or negotiate something Steve Brown goes into a rage and refuses to sanction the transfer, much to Tommy Wright's confusion
• Wallace Duffy leaves on a permanent deal instead of a loan because someone used the wrong form
• Tommy Wright, our then most successful manager, is sacked because he's fed up with the chairman/Robertson
• We sign someone frmo Finland and don't have the paperwork to get him a work permit
• We accept a £200k bid for Jason Kerr from Charlton. £200k.
• Having said it would take a figure higher than £1.75m to buy Ali McCann, we accept one around £1-£1.2mill with add ons. Adds ons take figure to £2m before sell on fees.
• Replacements for these players are all loans. No new striker. Defensive replacements are inexperienced. Not totally sure why we needed a new midfielder.
• We still have players likely to leave for nothing at the end of the season.

 

Have I missed anything?

 

I am sure you have but covered most of it.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[aagb1884]

19 minutes ago, Cagey said:

I am sure you have but covered most of it.

Welcome to the forum.

 

Lovely to be here. Lurking for a while but now pissed off enough to something.

[TheYellowBox]

3 hours ago, garydavidson said:

I wonder if we have spent the loan the government handed us? If so that is probably us just broken even from the European games and the sale of our two best players. That makes it even worse if it won't even be money in the bank.

Brown has absolutely drained any goodwill and enthusiasm. 

I think we are probably sitting on a hefty sum in the bank.

Back of fat packet maths, but the club had c£2m in bank pre covid. The aborted season, we furloughed most staff, still got the season ticket money, sponsorship, tv and prize money, so probably not a huge loss.

Last season, club still banked the season ticket money, sponsorship, tv deal, prize money from 2 cups and played off a load of staff. Will have taken a hit, bit the £2m will have more than covered it.

This season, we have the covid loan (assume for now it covers just the covid losses), c £1m from Europe and now £1.8m in transfer fees up front.

If you assume the loan or the £2m covers covid, you would have to say we have around £5m minimum in the bank right now. £2m already, plus £1m european and then £1.8m transfers. There will of course be delays in Euro Prize money and transfer fees etc, but roughly, that is what we should have. Even if you were really negative and say covid cost us double, we should still have £3m. 

[Melbourne Saint]

3 hours ago, Denzil said:

Player contracts up 31 May 2022:

Shaun Rooney

Liam Gordon

Jamie McCart

Zander Clark

Craig Bryson

Callum Booth

Liam Craig

Callum Hendry

Murray Davidson

Elliot Parish

 

January has the potential now to be utterly catastrophic. Thoroughly depressed now.

Well... One thing I'm a bit concerned about,  is whether we're going to meddle with our wage structure to extend contracts- specifically McCart, Zander, Gordon. SB has been adamant that the wage structure/budget is set in stone. Would he make exceptions to some of those and increase an offer already on the table? It would be some good news for fans.

Or, would they/ their agents go on the offensive with saints on the basis that we've checked out on our 2 best players now demand an increase in the offer?

There's a couple on that list that will either retire, or move down a league. They're all replaceable, but god, nil fees for those 3 if they leave and Christ, we'll have a team that don't know each other soon.

[rik2304]

12 minutes ago, Melbourne Saint said:

Well... One thing I'm a bit concerned about,  is whether we're going to meddle with our wage structure to extend contracts- specifically McCart, Zander, Gordon. SB has been adamant that the wage structure/budget is set in stone. Would he make exceptions to some of those and increase an offer already on the table? It would be some good news for fans.

Or, would they/ their agents go on the offensive with saints on the basis that we've checked out on our 2 best players now demand an increase in the offer?

There's a couple on that list that will either retire, or move down a league. They're all replaceable, but god, nil fees for those 3 if they leave and Christ, we'll have a team that don't know each other soon.

I think we be quite clear that he won't be making any exceptions.

It's take it or leave it with Brown.

[Stumpy1949]

4 hours ago, aagb1884 said:

Looking back at his record:

• Stevie May scores 27 goals in 2013-14, and goes for around £800k + add ons. The transfer was accepted by the chairman with May unclear as to whether he was staying or going (comparison: Nisbet scored 18 goals last season, Hibs rejected a transfer request for him and value him at £5 mill)
• Failure to use the Scottish Cup win as a platform for...anything really.
• Hires Roddy Grant to do...something? On a decent wage anyway.
• Hires Kirsten Robertson to basically do the day to day work of being chairman because he can't be ****ed with it
• Drey Wright is one of many players who wants to stay, the manager wants them to stay, but negotiations are so slow and frustrating that he leaves
• Stevie May returns, held up by his agent demanding an extra condition on his contact, and rather than simply go 'No' or negotiate something Steve Brown goes into a rage and refuses to sanction the transfer, much to Tommy Wright's confusion
• Wallace Duffy leaves on a permanent deal instead of a loan because someone used the wrong form
• Tommy Wright, our then most successful manager, is sacked because he's fed up with the chairman/Robertson
• We sign someone frmo Finland and don't have the paperwork to get him a work permit
• We accept a £200k bid for Jason Kerr from Charlton. £200k.
• Having said it would take a figure higher than £1.75m to buy Ali McCann, we accept one around £1-£1.2mill with add ons. Adds ons take figure to £2m before sell on fees.
• Replacements for these players are all loans. No new striker. Defensive replacements are inexperienced. Not totally sure why we needed a new midfielder.
• We still have players likely to leave for nothing at the end of the season.

 

Have I missed anything?

 

First ever Scottish cup win, second Scottish cup win, first ever league cup win and back in Europe. No I think you have all the positives covered. 

[aagb1884]

10 minutes ago, Stumpy1966 said:

First ever Scottish cup win, second Scottish cup win, first ever league cup win and back in Europe. No I think you have all the positives covered. 

pretty confident we achieved these in spite of Brown, not because of him. Also, as I mention, his complete failure to kick on from these wins is a signifcant problem.

[Pat McGroin]

6 minutes ago, aagb1884 said:

pretty confident we achieved these in spite of Brown, not because of him. Also, as I mention, his complete failure to kick on from these wins is a signifcant problem.

I wouldn’t agree with that completely. They clearly know what they look for in a manager. We haven’t sacked a boss since John Connolly which is an exceptional run. Our success has been largely down to stability and what that breeds. 

[Stumpy1949]

Just now, aagb1884 said:

pretty confident we achieved these in spite of Brown, not because of him. Also, as I mention, his complete failure to kick on from these wins is a signifcant problem.

To be fair you can’t list all his alleged failings without at least mentioning his pluses. You say he hasn’t kicked on since his cup wins, well I think winning two cups since the first one is kicking quite high and again to be fair he’s not had much chance to kick on since the most recent two. Don’t get me wrong I’m as disappointed as you/anyone at the sale of Jason and Ali but I think we have to give the new players a chance they may be world beaters with us

[MrBored]

5 hours ago, aagb1884 said:

Looking back at his record:

• Stevie May scores 27 goals in 2013-14, and goes for around £800k + add ons. The transfer was accepted by the chairman with May unclear as to whether he was staying or going (comparison: Nisbet scored 18 goals last season, Hibs rejected a transfer request for him and value him at £5 mill)
• Failure to use the Scottish Cup win as a platform for...anything really.
• Hires Roddy Grant to do...something? On a decent wage anyway.
• Hires Kirsten Robertson to basically do the day to day work of being chairman because he can't be ****ed with it
• Drey Wright is one of many players who wants to stay, the manager wants them to stay, but negotiations are so slow and frustrating that he leaves
• Stevie May returns, held up by his agent demanding an extra condition on his contact, and rather than simply go 'No' or negotiate something Steve Brown goes into a rage and refuses to sanction the transfer, much to Tommy Wright's confusion
• Wallace Duffy leaves on a permanent deal instead of a loan because someone used the wrong form
• Tommy Wright, our then most successful manager, is sacked because he's fed up with the chairman/Robertson
• We sign someone frmo Finland and don't have the paperwork to get him a work permit
• We accept a £200k bid for Jason Kerr from Charlton. £200k.
• Having said it would take a figure higher than £1.75m to buy Ali McCann, we accept one around £1-£1.2mill with add ons. Adds ons take figure to £2m before sell on fees.
• Replacements for these players are all loans. No new striker. Defensive replacements are inexperienced. Not totally sure why we needed a new midfielder.
• We still have players likely to leave for nothing at the end of the season.

 

Have I missed anything?

 

This is going to sound like I am sticking up for Steve...but some of that doesn't look right.

• May left for £800k because his agent made clear he wouldn't sign the deal on the table at the time.
• Robertson was brought in as Brown felt he didn't have the time to run the club and the family business.
• The 'discussions' for May's return were handled by Vine as his agent....that should be enough to explain that situation!
• Not sure Wallace should have been kept on...first time I've heard that explaination of his leaving (not saying its not true!).
• Wright wasn't sacked.
• We were always going to have players leave for nothing at the end of the season whether we kept McCann and Kerr.

[john.w]

Im away for a lie down

[aagb1884]

1 minute ago, MrBored said:

This is going to sound like I am sticking up for Steve...but some of that doesn't look right.

• May left for £800k because his agent made clear he wouldn't sign the deal on the table at the time.
• Robertson was brought in as Brown felt he didn't have the time to run the club and the family business.
• The 'discussions' for May's return were handled by Vine as his agent....that should be enough to explain that situation!
• Not sure Wallace should have been kept on...first time I've heard that explaination of his leaving (not saying its not true!).
• Wright wasn't sacked.
• We were always going to have players leave for nothing at the end of the season whether we kept McCann and Kerr.

Wright was sacked. May wanted to stay another season and Brown sold him. Vine clearly was at fault with the negotiations but so was Brown. Whether you think Duffy was good or not isn't as important as the fact our 'well run family club' is scraping 50% of those words.

[aagb1884]

5 minutes ago, Stumpy1966 said:

To be fair you can’t list all his alleged failings without at least mentioning his pluses. You say he hasn’t kicked on since his cup wins, well I think winning two cups since the first one is kicking quite high and again to be fair he’s not had much chance to kick on since the most recent two. Don’t get me wrong I’m as disappointed as you/anyone at the sale of Jason and Ali but I think we have to give the new players a chance they may be world beaters with us

his pluses are that Lomas and Wright picked good assistants that made the hiring job easy. 

[Stumpy1949]

2 minutes ago, aagb1884 said:

his pluses are that Lomas and Wright picked good assistants that made the hiring job easy. 

I can see that you’re not willing to give him any real credit so I think I will just leave it there. 

[Pat McGroin]

4 minutes ago, aagb1884 said:

Wright was sacked. May wanted to stay another season and Brown sold him. Vine clearly was at fault with the negotiations but so was Brown. Whether you think Duffy was good or not isn't as important as the fact our 'well run family club' is scraping 50% of those words.

How do you know Tommy was sacked? I have never seen that mentioned anywhere, or heard it from those with contacts at the club. Why was he sacked? 

[callander saint]

Whilst i can appreciate the frustration at selling 2 of our best players i think the comments re our Board ( S Brown in particular ) are very undeserved . Last season's  achievements  were incredible and keeping the team together was always going to be very difficult. When offers come in for our players from clubs that can offer 5/10 times the wages we can you are potentially going to have some  very unhappy players if the the offers are turned down . Whilst disappointed to see Kerr and McCann leave i think both deals are sensible for the club and the players concerned. As far as i am concerned The Brown Family have done a fantastic job in looking after St Johnstone for the past 25 + years. As a fan who supported Saints prior to Geoff Brown getting involved i can say i never dreamed i would see Saints win 3 Cups in my lifetime. 

[rik2304]

5 minutes ago, aagb1884 said:

his pluses are that Lomas and Wright picked good assistants that made the hiring job easy. 

I like the cut of your jib, new guy.

This is genuinely the first time I've seen it mentioned that TW was sacked. What has you so convinced?

[rik2304]

2 minutes ago, callander saint said:

Whilst i can appreciate the frustration at selling 2 of our best players i think the comments re our Board ( S Brown in particular ) are very undeserved . Last season's  achievements  were incredible and keeping the team together was always going to be very difficult. When offers come in for our players from clubs that can offer 5/10 times the wages we can you are potentially going to have some  very unhappy players if the the offers are turned down . Whilst disappointed to see Kerr and McCann leave i think both deals are sensible for the club and the players concerned. As far as i am concerned The Brown Family have done a fantastic job in looking after St Johnstone for the past 25 + years. As a fan who supported Saints prior to Geoff Brown getting involved i can say i never dreamed i would see Saints win 3 Cups in my lifetime. 

We can't keep being stuck in the past. If we keep planning for a "rainy day" or "bad times" we'll just drive ourselves there quicker.

[Stumpy1949]

7 minutes ago, aagb1884 said:

Wright was sacked. May wanted to stay another season and Brown sold him. Vine clearly was at fault with the negotiations but so was Brown. Whether you think Duffy was good or not isn't as important as the fact our 'well run family club' is scraping 50% of those words.

You are half right about May he wanted to stay but his previous agent wouldn’t let him extend his contract so of course Brown sold him. How was Brown at fault when he agreed a deal with Vine who came back the next day and tried to change it?

[aagb1884]

Just now, rik2304 said:

I like the cut of your jib, new guy.

This is genuinely the first time I've seen it mentioned that TW was sacked. What has you so convinced?

Think there was a Sun article around the time which, surprisingly given it's them, got it pretty much right based on what I've heard off the record: Tommy was fed up with the chairman and Kirsten Robertson, all those grumbles he had built up til it was untenable. Can't find the link though.

[aagb1884]

3 minutes ago, Stumpy1966 said:

You are half right about May he wanted to stay but his previous agent wouldn’t let him extend his contract so of course Brown sold him. How was Brown at fault when he agreed a deal with Vine who came back the next day and tried to change it?

Because Brown lost it and refused to negotiate. That's not exactly the professional response.

[Stumpy1949]

15 minutes ago, aagb1884 said:

Because Brown lost it and refused to negotiate. That's not exactly the professional response.

You have a very unfortunate habit of only answer part of my posts so not sure what negotiation you are talking about but if you are talking about the vine one why would you think he would start again after it had been agreed. 

[sixties saintee]

20 minutes ago, aagb1884 said:

Think there was a Sun article around the time which, surprisingly given it's them, got it pretty much right based on what I've heard off the record: Tommy was fed up with the chairman and Kirsten Robertson, all those grumbles he had built up til it was untenable. Can't find the link though.

You were doing no bad till you mentioned currant bun.