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Hibernian V St.Johnstone - Sunday 26th September

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I think the lack of discipline in the team at these time's in a game is showing an underlying frustration, the lack of ability to claw back a goal or 2 after going down, lack of outlets up front and capability to finish a good goal scoring move. 

The bookings and red card's for stupid needless actions are testimony to that. 

At the same time there should be a mechanism in place where the actions by referees during a match are reviewed. Player's can be charged and band by the spfl on video evidence after a game or rescind red card's etc on appeal by club's after video evidence. They should also be able to review the referees performance in the same way, no hand ball when a penalty is awarded, then the goal if scored should be chalked off and the result stand as is without that addition of the goal e.g. 0-0 for today's result, also if the ball didn't come off of booth for a throw in and it should've been a saints throw in then the grounds for the 2nd booking didn't exist and it and the subsequent red should be rescinded. 

Referees these days need to be held accountable as their on field decisions cost club's and individual player's £££`s in lost point's, positions at the end of the end of the season. If their decisions are wrong then they need upheld as that by the governing body to maintain credibility. 

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2 hours ago, Auldallianez said:

I think the lack of discipline in the team at these time's in a game is showing an underlying frustration, the lack of ability to claw back a goal or 2 after going down, lack of outlets up front and capability to finish a good goal scoring move. 

The bookings and red card's for stupid needless actions are testimony to that. 

At the same time there should be a mechanism in place where the actions by referees during a match are reviewed. Player's can be charged and band by the spfl on video evidence after a game or rescind red card's etc on appeal by club's after video evidence. They should also be able to review the referees performance in the same way, no hand ball when a penalty is awarded, then the goal if scored should be chalked off and the result stand as is without that addition of the goal e.g. 0-0 for today's result, also if the ball didn't come off of booth for a throw in and it should've been a saints throw in then the grounds for the 2nd booking didn't exist and it and the subsequent red should be rescinded. 

Referees these days need to be held accountable as their on field decisions cost club's and individual player's £££`s in lost point's, positions at the end of the end of the season. If their decisions are wrong then they need upheld as that by the governing body to maintain credibility. 

There is a mechanism there is a big brother is watching policy and as far as I know the punishment is games in division 3 are handed out

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6 minutes ago, Broggy Man said:

There is a mechanism there is a big brother is watching policy and as far as I know the punishment is games in division 3 are handed out

Yup. I believe they measure it and 3-4 sub-par performance = either time out (for really crap performance) or other divisions for more average crapness. They have a few of ref assessors who stooge around at games too...

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6 minutes ago, Melbourne Saint said:

Yup. I believe they measure it and 3-4 sub-par performance = either time out (for really crap performance) or other divisions for more average crapness. They have a few of ref assessors who stooge around at games too...

Aye all their mates=assessor :angry:

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That was the worst penalty decision I can remember seeing in a while. But at the same time, we need to be a lot more grown-up about how we handle this things. You'll always get bad refereeing calls in football and we need to be able to handle that. At 1-0 down we were still in the game, but McCart's indiscipline has totally killed our chances. We need to be a lot more disciplined than that and cut out the pointless dissent.

Those two incidents aside I felt there was basically nothing between the sides and we were probably heading for a 0-0 draw. But yet again we've seen how costly it is to lose a goal when we struggle so much to score ourselves. Our failings up front put pressure on the whole team and leave us fighting an uphill battle whenever we concede.

Surely at this stage Eetu *must" be given his chance against Dundee? We desperately need something different up front and he looked the part when he came on against Sevco. I just keep telling myself that we delayed for a long time with introducing Melamed, but when he eventually played he made a difference and won us a few points, so I guess CD knows what he's doing - but it's bloody frustrating. Looking back, I guess he probably wouldn't have played in the European games even if his work permit had come through in time.

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The margins between success and failure can be incredibly fine. In the case of football coming away with 3 points, 1 point or zero points often depends upon the ability of the officials to officiate in a reasonably competent manner. It could be argued that in the last two league matches Saints have been the victims of some downright abysmal refereeing decisions. Two, arguably dubious, penalty decisions have robbed Saints of at least a point in each match. In both cases the referee simply couldn't wait to point to the spot.

Take the game against Sevco last week. Would that penalty have been given for such an ever so slight touch were it to have happened at the other end. I think not.

Then the ball-to-hand yesterday. If there was an element of doubt, and there was, it should never have been given. The frustrating thing is that we all know that he would never have given it if say, a Sevco player,  was struck by a ball in the same manner.

Edited by Indicator

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Given that I have yet to hear a single pundit agree with the penalty decision , including ex Hibees, does McCart not have any grounds for appeal against his first yellow card?  To misquote Fiddler on the Roof "would it upset some great eternal plan for Beaton to admit he made a mistake and withdraw the card"?

I know - dream on.

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15 minutes ago, south inch said:

Given that I have yet to hear a single pundit agree with the penalty decision , including ex Hibees, does McCart not have any grounds for appeal against his first yellow card?  To misquote Fiddler on the Roof "would it upset some great eternal plan for Beaton to admit he made a mistake and withdraw the card"?

I know - dream on.

Don't think you can appeal bookings 

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19 minutes ago, south inch said:

Given that I have yet to hear a single pundit agree with the penalty decision , including ex Hibees, does McCart not have any grounds for appeal against his first yellow card?  To misquote Fiddler on the Roof "would it upset some great eternal plan for Beaton to admit he made a mistake and withdraw the card"?

I know - dream on.

I noticed one manager last week he was going to appeal a yellow because he got a second.

Like temple I don't think you can appeal bookings.

I don't think anyone on the planet apart from Beaton thought it was a penalty. I don't think any Hibs supporters thought it was a penalty but of course they appealed just as we would have.

I still wonder if we would have won 2 cups if the supporters were allowed in to influence the officials.

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Nor can a player appeal a yellow card, even if it is his fifth of the season and means he is suspended in accordance with Part 1(8)(a), which states: ... To speak in the language of the rulebook, the “disciplinary consequences” of a yellow card are strictly not challengeable.7

and

There is no mechanism within the Laws of the Game to rescind a yellow card. Red Cards can be rescinded for a number of reasons, but ONLY if it was a Straight Red, if it was a red card due to two yellows then it cannot be rescinded, but the penalty can be reduced from three matches to one in certain circumstances.

Edited by Saintdunc

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11 minutes ago, Saintdunc said:

Nor can a player appeal a yellow card, even if it is his fifth of the season and means he is suspended in accordance with Part 1(8)(a), which states: ... To speak in the language of the rulebook, the “disciplinary consequences” of a yellow card are strictly not challengeable.7

and

There is no mechanism within the Laws of the Game to rescind a yellow card. Red Cards can be rescinded for a number of reasons, but ONLY if it was a Straight Red, if it was a red card due to two yellows then it cannot be rescinded, but the penalty can be reduced from three matches to one in certain circumstances.

I thought a red was only a 1 game ban if not violent conduct.

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14 hours ago, Saintdunc said:

Nor can a player appeal a yellow card, even if it is his fifth of the season and means he is suspended in accordance with Part 1(8)(a), which states: ... To speak in the language of the rulebook, the “disciplinary consequences” of a yellow card are strictly not challengeable.7

and

There is no mechanism within the Laws of the Game to rescind a yellow card. Red Cards can be rescinded for a number of reasons, but ONLY if it was a Straight Red, if it was a red card due to two yellows then it cannot be rescinded, but the penalty can be reduced from three matches to one in certain circumstances.

Thanks for the information, can't say it is very logical but that is not your fault.

It seems to be accepted that if we had VAR the penalty decision would have been reversed and Jamie's yellow would not have stood.  I saw a penalty and red card reversed through VAR on Match of the Day a couple of weeks ago.

Scotland can't afford VAR we are told but surely it is not beyond the wit of man to create a procedure to allow for the secondary consequence of a wrong  decision - the yellow card - to be corrected.  I realise there is no way the penalty can be reversed without VAR but the sense of injustice could at least be mitigated.  Some people would call it common sense.

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41 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

To be honest I'd rather put up with occasional refereeing errors than have the disruption that VAR has brought to the English Prem.

Referees getting it wrong is part of the fun, it adds extra spice to the game. I think VAR is one of the worst things that has happened to football in recent years. It's another way of separating the 'top leagues' from the lower ones, and turns the game - with all its mistakes and idiosyncrasies - into a science, bland and boring.

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1 hour ago, blueheaven said:

To be honest I'd rather put up with occasional refereeing errors than have the disruption that VAR has brought to the English Prem.

Much better than it was though! Referees have been instructed to chill, and let a few things go this season. Some tasty 70s like tackles occurring at all levels.

Edited by Saintdunc

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1 hour ago, Linky said:

Referees getting it wrong is part of the fun, it adds extra spice to the game. I think VAR is one of the worst things that has happened to football in recent years. It's another way of separating the 'top leagues' from the lower ones, and turns the game - with all its mistakes and idiosyncrasies - into a science, bland and boring.

Aren't a lot of the rule changes also based around the use of VAR? It has a knock on effect even if it isn't being used.

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2 hours ago, blueheaven said:

To be honest I'd rather put up with occasional refereeing errors than have the disruption that VAR has brought to the English Prem.

 

1 hour ago, Linky said:

Referees getting it wrong is part of the fun, it adds extra spice to the game. I think VAR is one of the worst things that has happened to football in recent years. It's another way of separating the 'top leagues' from the lower ones, and turns the game - with all its mistakes and idiosyncrasies - into a science, bland and boring.

Be interesting to see if you'd still feel like this is we lose the Semi Final to a blatantly offside goal that's missed by the officials, that VAR would've corrected in under 10 seconds.

It was a farce in England last season but seems to be a lot quicker and smoother this season as they've added a "common sense" approach.

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29 minutes ago, Saintdunc said:

Much better than it was though! Referees have been instructed to chill, and let a few things go this season. Some tasty 70s like tackles occurring at all levels.

In England maybe. Most refs in Scotland give free kicks when guys are blown over by a gust of wind. Most even don't use the advantage rule which slows the game down here and stops the game being entertainment.

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49 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Be interesting to see if you'd still feel like this is we lose the Semi Final to a blatantly offside goal that's missed by the officials, that VAR would've corrected in under 10 seconds.

I actually would. We've had plenty of big refereeing errors go against us in the past, but I still feel that it's part of the game and I can't stand what VAR has done to matches down south.

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Following on from Beaton's performance, came across a game where he was the Official in a Saints game against Hearts, where he booked 

Cummins, Foster, Davidson, MacLean, Kane and Craig.

Rossi of Hearts was booked.

AND Saints won 1-0.

He's obviously got a few of those names in his library.

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33 minutes ago, HOODLUM65 said:

Following on from Beaton's performance, came across a game where he was the Official in a Saints game against Hearts, where he booked 

Cummins, Foster, Davidson, MacLean, Kane and Craig.

Rossi of Hearts was booked.

AND Saints won 1-0.

He's obviously got a few of those names in his library.

Did they miss their obligatory penalty :wub:

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