St.Johnstone V Hibernian - Saturday 27th November


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55 minutes ago, Sergei said:

Not so good but thought it might have been much worse than that. Fingers crossed for him.

Dont know because I only caught the discussion half way through. Sounded bad, do they talk like that if its a few months? All the "not my place to say from Preston and Davidson". Sounds like getting a 2nd opinion on the injury.

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Maybe worth bearing in mind we're only one point behind where we were after the same number of games last season. But I think we can all see that things aren't clicking the way they were before the summer. I can sort of forgive our lack of potency up front as we've never had that - didn't have it under Tommy and haven't had it under Callum, but we always found a way to be successful regardless. What's a bigger worry for me is that we seem to have lost the sharpness, togetherness, fitness and pressing ability that was our trademark last season. Even when we created little last season, I always felt we looked fitter than our opponents and seemed to win a lot of our battles all over the pitch. I'm not sure if we've gone backwards since then or other teams have got wise to us (possibly a bit of both) - but it's clearly not working any more and I think it's time for Davidson to step up and recognise our system has lost its effectiveness.

I'd hoped the enforced changes up front might be a blessing in disguise as we've desperately needed changes in attack and I don't think CD would have made those changes if his hand hadn't been forced. But I don't think playing Eetu through the middle on his own was ever going to work. He's clearly got a good touch and some really nice skill but he also looked a bit lightweight and unable to hold the ball up. I wouldn't be against seeing him and Kane played as a partnership as Kane would be able to do the 'dirty work' and create space for Eetu to flourish. But I suspect Eetu may well now go back to sitting on the bench for the foreseeable future, sadly.

VSO looked good when he came on and if we don't change the system against Dundee I'd like to see him start in Spoony's wide left role. Possibly a front three of VSO, Kane and MOH. Crawford, for me, isn't doing it at the moment and I'm starting to lose my confidence in the idea of keeping him permanently. MacPherson is someone who I think shows quite a bit of promise and of the two of them I'd probably prefer to see him stay on. I also thought Brown looked good again when he came on and I'd have him starting every week at the moment (if he's fit).

Two absolutely massive games on the horizon now. Weird to think that if we'd held on for the three points yesterday we'd actually be in the top 6 right now - instead, we're suddenly looking over our shoulder.

P.S. Our discipline is absolutely rotten and that's something else CD really needs to get a grip of.

 

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48 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

Maybe worth bearing in mind we're only one point behind where we were after the same number of games last season. But I think we can all see that things aren't clicking the way they were before the summer. I can sort of forgive our lack of potency up front as we've never had that - didn't have it under Tommy and haven't had it under Callum, but we always found a way to be successful regardless. What's a bigger worry for me is that we seem to have lost the sharpness, togetherness, fitness and pressing ability that was our trademark last season. Even when we created little last season, I always felt we looked fitter than our opponents and seemed to win a lot of our battles all over the pitch. I'm not sure if we've gone backwards since then or other teams have got wise to us (possibly a bit of both) - but it's clearly not working any more and I think it's time for Davidson to step up and recognise our system has lost its effectiveness.

I'd hoped the enforced changes up front might be a blessing in disguise as we've desperately needed changes in attack and I don't think CD would have made those changes if his hand hadn't been forced. But I don't think playing Eetu through the middle on his own was ever going to work. He's clearly got a good touch and some really nice skill but he also looked a bit lightweight and unable to hold the ball up. I wouldn't be against seeing him and Kane played as a partnership as Kane would be able to do the 'dirty work' and create space for Eetu to flourish. But I suspect Eetu may well now go back to sitting on the bench for the foreseeable future, sadly.

VSO looked good when he came on and if we don't change the system against Dundee I'd like to see him start in Spoony's wide left role. Possibly a front three of VSO, Kane and MOH. Crawford, for me, isn't doing it at the moment and I'm starting to lose my confidence in the idea of keeping him permanently. MacPherson is someone who I think shows quite a bit of promise and of the two of them I'd probably prefer to see him stay on. I also thought Brown looked good again when he came on and I'd have him starting every week at the moment (if he's fit).

Two absolutely massive games on the horizon now. Weird to think that if we'd held on for the three points yesterday we'd actually be in the top 6 right now - instead, we're suddenly looking over our shoulder.

P.S. Our discipline is absolutely rotten and that's something else CD really needs to get a grip of.

 

Agree with every word.

Crawford has had time & chances to show improvement.

Eetu never took his opertunity yesterday & think he will be back on the bench.

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53 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

Crawford, for me, isn't doing it at the moment and I'm starting to lose my confidence in the idea of keeping him permanently. MacPherson is someone who I think shows quite a bit of promise and of the two of them I'd probably prefer to see him stay on.

 

Neither of them should be kept on, and if they are it should just be to sit on the bench most weeks and provide cover.

CM area used to be our strongest area, has been for years,  just now its a bit of a mess. I honestly wouldn't be against just chucking Muzz and Craig in there as at least you know they'll fight for everything, just now it feels incredibly easy to simply walk through us.

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18 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Neither of them should be kept on, and if they are it should just be to sit on the bench most weeks and provide cover.

CM area used to be our strongest area, has been for years,  just now its a bit of a mess. I honestly wouldn't be against just chucking Muzz and Craig in there as at least you know they'll fight for everything, just now it feels incredibly easy to simply walk through us.

100% Liam Craig at half time would have been my choice.

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1 hour ago, Rob said:

Dont know because I only caught the discussion half way through. Sounded bad, do they talk like that if its a few months? All the "not my place to say from Preston and Davidson". Sounds like getting a 2nd opinion on the injury.

Not sure if he's Spoony's agent or not but the way it was relayed to me was Preston's comments suggested it was such a bad injury it was best the club made a statement about it. Hope not obviously. We'll find out soon enough but it's certainly a worry for a few reasons.

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We failed in summer 2014 to take full advantage of the cup win which whilst not a great outcome, could at least be partially forgiven. This summer however was a cluster bourach. Double cup winners, money in the bank, increased season ticket sales, big European games coming up with decent pay checks. That was the time to push the club on and improve what we had rather than wait to see if anyone came in for our players on last day of window. We did not strengthen for the euro campaign thinking what we had was good enough. It was not. Our goal scoring issue was not addressed, replacements should have been inbound for the likes of Muzz, Craig  MOH who should be squad players at best by now. The fact that we had no big plans to recruit hit the skids on deadline day and the loss of McCann and Kerr is really starting to show now. Crawford and MacPherson were panic buys regardless of what CD has said publicly about them. Lots of people say we are more or less where we were this time last season (not exactly something to be proud of) so not to worry. I am worried as the team is a shadow of last season, we are rocked with injuries, the loan players are not of great calibre with the exception of Dendonker, we lack quality through the midfield to the strikers and other teams around us are looking in a better state. I really do fear for our status this year and to have gone from a top six double cup winning team to the utter crap I watched yesterday is shocking. January window our biggest ever......

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4 hours ago, Sergei said:

Not sure if he's Spoony's agent or not but the way it was relayed to me was Preston's comments suggested it was such a bad injury it was best the club made a statement about it. Hope not obviously. We'll find out soon enough but it's certainly a worry for a few reasons.

Yeah think Preston is his agent. Said he spoke to him midweek. I agree it sounded very bad. It was hard to tell if the suggestion was it was bad because we really need a creative player like Spoony and missing him for months would be a big loss or if there was something else. Hard to put my finger on it but just the way the discussion went, something wasnt right.

Maybe reading too much into it. Maybe because its a blow for his international career. Canada are looking good for qualifying for the World Cup I think.

 

Edited by Rob
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3 hours ago, Gas Monkey said:

We failed in summer 2014 to take full advantage of the cup win which whilst not a great outcome, could at least be partially forgiven. This summer however was a cluster bourach. Double cup winners, money in the bank, increased season ticket sales, big European games coming up with decent pay checks. That was the time to push the club on and improve what we had rather than wait to see if anyone came in for our players on last day of window. We did not strengthen for the euro campaign thinking what we had was good enough. It was not. Our goal scoring issue was not addressed, replacements should have been inbound for the likes of Muzz, Craig  MOH who should be squad players at best by now. The fact that we had no big plans to recruit hit the skids on deadline day and the loss of McCann and Kerr is really starting to show now. Crawford and MacPherson were panic buys regardless of what CD has said publicly about them. Lots of people say we are more or less where we were this time last season (not exactly something to be proud of) so not to worry. I am worried as the team is a shadow of last season, we are rocked with injuries, the loan players are not of great calibre with the exception of Dendonker, we lack quality through the midfield to the strikers and other teams around us are looking in a better state. I really do fear for our status this year and to have gone from a top six double cup winning team to the utter crap I watched yesterday is shocking. January window our biggest ever......

Spot on with all these comments. Dendoncker looks decent and Devine and Muller have been fine as backup. Thats what theyve been loaned for as far as I can see. The others just looks like a massive lack of forward planning and its really starting to hit the fan now. Every other team was strengthening, it was clear as day.

Edited by Rob
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Gonna be a long season!  Saints, Aberdeen, St Mirren, County, Dundee, Livi, well into the season, all capable on their day of winning any match,  all within 6 points of each other, impossible to call how these teams will fare over the busy December fixtures. 
 

Strongest league for some years, Saints need a striker, and quickly! 

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19 hours ago, Sergei said:

Not sure if he's Spoony's agent or not but the way it was relayed to me was Preston's comments suggested it was such a bad injury it was best the club made a statement about it. Hope not obviously. We'll find out soon enough but it's certainly a worry for a few reasons.

I think we'll find out soon that Spoony is out for the season and might be struggling to be back in time for the start of next season. It's a huge blow.

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17 hours ago, Gas Monkey said:

We failed in summer 2014 to take full advantage of the cup win which whilst not a great outcome, could at least be partially forgiven. This summer however was a cluster bourach. Double cup winners, money in the bank, increased season ticket sales, big European games coming up with decent pay checks. That was the time to push the club on and improve what we had rather than wait to see if anyone came in for our players on last day of window. We did not strengthen for the euro campaign thinking what we had was good enough. It was not. Our goal scoring issue was not addressed, replacements should have been inbound for the likes of Muzz, Craig  MOH who should be squad players at best by now. The fact that we had no big plans to recruit hit the skids on deadline day and the loss of McCann and Kerr is really starting to show now. Crawford and MacPherson were panic buys regardless of what CD has said publicly about them. Lots of people say we are more or less where we were this time last season (not exactly something to be proud of) so not to worry. I am worried as the team is a shadow of last season, we are rocked with injuries, the loan players are not of great calibre with the exception of Dendonker, we lack quality through the midfield to the strikers and other teams around us are looking in a better state. I really do fear for our status this year and to have gone from a top six double cup winning team to the utter crap I watched yesterday is shocking. January window our biggest ever......

You make a lot of good points; the injuries are a huge concern and a few of the loanees are not shaping up. Crawford is a clever player but he looks unfit and his loss of possesion if awful. Don't rate McPherson plenty show but no substance. Efe was a good signing to stablise the back players when Gordon was out and he'll do a turn down the line. 

Our biggest worry is the drop off in form from players like Middelton -  he is not performing ( when he's fit). MOH is patchy at best and we need to start him on the wing where he does his best work. Muzz will always put a shift in but he too is close to a ban.

People better start realising we are in serious trouble. We could be bottom by the weekend and this is the wrong time of year to start falling in to the mire. 

This January window that everyone alludes to is another false dawn; players are needed to come in and help out the squad but we are not going to find a Van Nistle Roy.

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2 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I've seen a few people saying this and I don't really get it. I've watched nearly every Saints game this season and the standard I've seen across the league has looked pretty much the same as in any other recent year.

Think they mean there’s no really weak team,as per usual,someone usually gets isolated by now 

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2 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I've seen a few people saying this and I don't really get it. I've watched nearly every Saints game this season and the standard I've seen across the league has looked pretty much the same as in any other recent year.

Based on the last 25 years or so, of the 14-15 clubs you might broadly describe as habitual top division clubs, 12 are in the top division. In addition, there are, for the first time in a while, none of the historically top 6 clubs in lower divisions. On paper, it’s the strongest league for years. I think that’s indisputable.

It wasn’t long ago that both cup finalists were lower league, and that didn’t surprise any one because they were big clubs. If it happened this year, it would be a huge upset.

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I'm the opposite. I don't think the league's strong at all. There's not that much between the 10 non-Old Firm teams but that's because of a levelling down, not up.

Until clubs get back to producing loads of home grown talent it'll keep declining as you see with the level of English clubs top level Scottish clubs are now having to look to. Even then it's almost impossible for good players to stay for any length of time and even the OF can't keep hold of their best youth players. 

My dad was fond of a Jock Stein quote which said you could have a 100 yard sprint between 80 year olds that'd be very competitive. It doesn't make it a high standard though.

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