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Dundee V St.Johnstone - Wednesday 1st December

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Well that was a load of crap tonight.

As others have said mid field was not there - not one of them .  Craig/Davidson ineffective,  MacPherson and Crawford loans should be terminated in January and bring back our own youngsters - they cannot be any worse.

Seems to be a lack of togetherness in the team - do not know if that is down to contract negotiations or want away players but there is something wrong.

Taking Eetu off was wrong decision and the 600+ Saints supporters let Davidson know.

Time for Calum to take the blinkers off regarding some players he is picking and start to earn his corn.

 

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1 hour ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

Last team that got relegated the season after winning a cup double? Has there been one ever? 

As the only other teams to have won the double are Aberdeen, Celtic & Rangers (oldco) and none of these have ever been relegated (yes I know....) we could be the first.

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24 minutes ago, Sergei said:

Rooney setting the goal up for them was ridiculous. Nice header up the air to them when I don't even think he needed to play it at all.

As a team we have a complete lack of composure or confidence on the ball, this has been a thing for 90% of the team for a good few years. 

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Our current situation is almost entirely self inflicted. We barely scored any goals even last season and this issue has never been resolved. We sell our best player when we didn’t need to and are paying the price.

Serious question. If you could win the cup double and be relegated the next season would you take it? Most folk would say “aye” but realistically this is what’s happening unless something drastic changes.

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I was actually stunned he put Rooney up front. Under the circumstances it was an obvious thing to do but even at that I didn't expect Callum to be so brave and actually do something a bit different.

 

Edited by Sergei

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What an embarrassing shambles this season is becoming. 

To go from the cup double to this is soul destroying. Relegation looking very much on the cards unless there is serious change to the team in January. 

I have no faith in the current strikers to turn this around. 

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5 minutes ago, garydavidson said:

As a team we have a complete lack of composure or confidence on the ball, this has been a thing for 90% of the team for a good few years. 

That has been the problem most of the season. No one comfortably on the ball & just launching it when it comes to them. Looks like they are panicking that they lose the ball causing a goal.

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The rushed sale of both Jason and Ali is at the crux of the teams implosion this season compounded by the failure to address our lack of goals upfront.If you're going to sell our best players at least get a fair fee for them and have a period of transition when you know they are getting sold and have time to plan suitable replacements.I actually feel sorry for CD losing both players so late in the window.The wind has well and truly come out of our sails when not so long ago we were riding on the crest of a big blue wave!

Edited by saintee in exile

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2 minutes ago, Saintdunc said:

 

This shambles is born off the field.

Don't even get me started on that.

We're heading in the right direction to be a complete laughing stock this season.

From double winners to relegation and Kerr and McCann waved off happily.

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Very hard watch tonight. 
 

Actually thought we weren’t too bad first half, terrible goal to concede but we were at least in the game and played some ok stuff.

Second half was shocking though, Liam Craig had a poor game and gave it away plenty, but at least he wanted the ball, watching Cammy and Ali Crawford hiding from the ball makes you miss the character this team used to have.
 

Crawford for Viv was the obvious sub and when that wasn’t the one made all remaining hope I had disappeared. Actually thought Rooney wasn’t bad, Vertainen looked semi dangerous and Viv had a good cameo but that’s me struggling to look for pass marks. 
 

Reminds me of spells under Tommy Wright but he always found a way to get us back to winning games, we need new signings, but also need Callum to tweak things in December, last season we were not picking up points but at least looking good, this season it feels even our meagre point total is a bit more than we deserve. 

Edited by Ali91

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19 minutes ago, rik2304 said:

Don't even get me started on that.

We're heading in the right direction to be a complete laughing stock this season.

From double winners to relegation and Kerr and McCann waved off happily.

All this guff about we had to let them go or they would have stopped playing. Those guys would still have wanted a move & would have played for it & if they kept up their performance they would have got a move in January & we probably got a decent fee.

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Sad watching that this morning. There's a lot of blame being thrown at the players but they look lost at the moment, and I feel this is coming from the manager / coaching staff who seem clueless as what to do.

Rooney up front being a classic example.

Big one on the weekend and hoping for what feels like a miracle.

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15 minutes ago, Cagey said:

All this guff about we had to let them go or they would have stopped playing. Those guys would still have wanted a move & would have played for it & if they kept up their performance they would have got a move in January & we probably got a decent fee.

 

10 minutes ago, Cagey said:

Having seen all the teams either live or full games on TV we are definitely the worst team in the league…

Totally agree with both those statements.Both players could easily have been sold for  a lot more in the next transfer window.

We definitely play the least entertaining football.The defence is decent but that's it!

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7 minutes ago, saintee in exile said:

 

Totally agree with both those statements.Both players could easily have been sold for  a lot more in the next transfer window.

We definitely play the least entertaining football.The defence is decent but that's it!

Jason Kerr was out of contract and not signing a new deal, nobody would've paid £600k for him in January when they could get him for free in June, I'm afraid.

McCann is a different matter.

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32 minutes ago, Cagey said:

All this guff about we had to let them go or they would have stopped playing. Those guys would still have wanted a move & would have played for it & if they kept up their performance they would have got a move in January & we probably got a decent fee.

Only the Steve fan boys and the gullible actually believe that nonsense. McCann was the final straw after the squad decreasing in the summer plus not strengthening before the Euro games, start of the league and first cup defence. The chairman's biscuit tin mentality probably cost us the £3m group stage money. Looks like some life changing amounts are easy to turn down after all. 

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1 hour ago, Ali91 said:

Very hard watch tonight. 
 

Actually thought we weren’t too bad first half, terrible goal to concede but we were at least in the game and played some ok stuff.

Second half was shocking though, Liam Craig had a poor game and gave it away plenty, but at least he wanted the ball, watching Cammy and Ali Crawford hiding from the ball makes you miss the character this team used to have.
 

Crawford for Viv was the obvious sub and when that wasn’t the one made all remaining hope I had disappeared. Actually thought Rooney wasn’t bad, Vertainen looked semi dangerous and Viv had a good cameo but that’s me struggling to look for pass marks. 
 

Reminds me of spells under Tommy Wright but he always found a way to get us back to winning games, we need new signings, but also need Callum to tweak things in December, last season we were not picking up points but at least looking good, this season it feels even our meagre point total is a bit more than we deserve. 

Was looking from Row X and until you mentioned his name, (never seen the starting line up)  realised Craig was playing.

Suppose that sums things up.

 

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2 hours ago, rik2304 said:

I have no faith in the current strikers to turn this around. 

This has been a problem for a year and a half now.  Makes you wonder about the quality of the strikers coaching staff - and of course of the management team as a whole for not being able to fix it.

Now we have similar issues in midfield. 

There are too many loanees who are not playing for the shirt - that part is pretty obvious.  Very depressing.

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7 hours ago, rik2304 said:

 

I have no faith in the current strikers to turn this around. 

Strikers Kane May and Vertainen. MOH and Middleton are not strikers they are wingers and the games they have played in a 2 up front proves this. Back to our 3 strikers Kane will run all day but he struggles to score May very occasionally shows flashes of his oldself. Verlainen the jury still out. With these 3 strikers should go back to 21 or 12 up front. In the 21 take you pick from any one of the 3 and we have any 2 from MOH Middleton or VIv. In the 1 2 up front we can Play MOH or Middleton in the 10 role.

Or my best option which you are tired of reading 4 4 2. We need a change as 3 5 2 is not working no matter who he plays.

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Things are dire at the moment. Things need to change fast and our midfield needs an overhaul, but Callum has earned the right to sort it out and given funds in the window he will hopefully do just that. We've had a dire run of injuries and sold two linchpins of the side.

First port of call should be to send Crawford and any of the loanees not up to it packing!

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7 hours ago, Sergei said:

Only the Steve fan boys and the gullible actually believe that nonsense. McCann was the final straw after the squad decreasing in the summer plus not strengthening before the Euro games, start of the league and first cup defence. The chairman's biscuit tin mentality probably cost us the £3m group stage money. Looks like some life changing amounts are easy to turn down after all. 

If you go back through the thread (Saints summer transfers), there were people that held these concerns. Admittedly a lot was in shock at what happened. 

Then the Broonie fan club came out and slagged anyone that noted that we were royally shafted by the McCann deal & the future was bleak - go look back. The concerns were real, the writing on the wall @larksaint.

However, an absolutely appalling transfer of 1 player does not justify the state of the squad right now. 

I fully expected us to make a couple of good permanent signings (striker/midfielder) in the summer. We had cash, not a lot, but enough.

We just laid there like a beached whale. 

Now, those that raised concerns are fully validated. That's not a nice feeling. Our intransigence, the overtly cautious approach has backfired somewhat. Because we were massively successful and didn't have a plan for being massively successful.

My issue with SB is that he's stood still. The league has moved forward (or, we have negatively stagnated). SB is jaded as a chairman. He wants out, apparently, and works ridiculous hours for the club. His motivation is not in question. 

But... It's time SB to hand the baton to someone else. We can be prudent, live within our means, but you, SB, shafted CD. 

I still think we will survive, people may slag MOH, but he works his gut out. The most depressing thing for me last night is when they scored, not one player was shouting, no emotion. Get them up Kinnoull hill 5 times for a beasting.

If we get relegated, I cannot see us getting promoted any time soon. We'll be stuck there for some time.

Stevie, you've continued your dad's work brilliantly. But for once, please, stump up in January... As Nike says, Just Do It.

Edited by Melbourne Saint

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It was Callum Davidson who targeted Hayden Muller, Cammy MacPherson and Ali Crawford this Summer.

It was Callum Davidson who told the club his strategy for Ali McCanns departure was Charlie Gilmour stepping up. That's why Gilmour got handed a long term deal.

It was Callum Davidson who decided to spend money this Summer chucking long term deals at MOH and May.

This Summers window was a complete mess but let's not pretend the manager had no part to play in that. He had 12 months to plan for the, according to everyone, agreed departure of Kerr this Summer and decided to sign a kid from Millwall.

He had 12 months of a secure CM position to build a new midfield, and went for 2 loanees and Gilmour.

Steve Brown's biggest mistake was waiting so long to hire a HOR to take the role of identifying players away from the manager.

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