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Dundee V St.Johnstone - Wednesday 1st December

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17 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

It was Callum Davidson who targeted Hayden Muller, Cammy MacPherson and Ali Crawford this Summer.

It was Callum Davidson who told the club his strategy for Ali McCanns departure was Charlie Gilmour stepping up. That's why Gilmour got handed a long term deal.

It was Callum Davidson who decided to spend money this Summer chucking long term deals at MOH and May.

This Summers window was a complete mess but let's not pretend the manager had no part to play in that. He had 12 months to plan for the, according to everyone, agreed departure of Kerr this Summer and decided to sign a kid from Millwall.

He had 12 months of a secure CM position to build a new midfield, and went for 2 loanees and Gilmour.

Steve Brown's biggest mistake was waiting so long to hire a HOR to take the role of identifying players away from the manager.

Kerr was actually a decent bit of business. I'm happy with that in isolation - £600k? Good business. 

I don't know the ins-outs of SB and CD relationship, but he gave him 3 years. 

Forget top 6, let's go for 8th. That's realistic. Fight to stay up. 

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8 hours ago, Sergei said:

Only the Steve fan boys and the gullible actually believe that nonsense. McCann was the final straw after the squad decreasing in the summer plus not strengthening before the Euro games, start of the league and first cup defence. The chairman's biscuit tin mentality probably cost us the £3m group stage money. Looks like some life changing amounts are easy to turn down after all. 

We should have made at least 2 new signings for Europe regardless whether Kerr & McCann left. We would have had guys willing to sing for s team in Europe. I can't see anyone knocking at the door to join us now. We might have beat Gala but definitely would have beat Lask who I don't think have won a league game but think are doing well in Conference league.

Lack of ambition has always hurt us.

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Just a few random thoughts after last night.

If you look at the players who have started most games under CD and who he clearly trusts - Clark, Rooney, Gordon, McCart, Booth, Spoony, MOH and Kane, plus Kerr and McCann before they left - those players were all signed or brought through by Tommy Wright. Nearly all of Callum's additions, with the exception of perhaps Bryson, McNamara and Crawford, have struggled to hold down a place in the team. And most of them have been temporary signings.

Inheriting Tommy Wright's team is probably as cushy a position as you can come into as a new manager. The squad already had the heart, the discipline, the organisation. CD really only had to tweak a few things to get them playing his way and inject a bit of freshness. I actually see a lot of similarities between this and when Sandy Clark took over from Paul Sturrock.

But now we're in a situation where good players have left and not been replaced, others are getting too old to be relied on, and the squad basically hasn't been developed in a year and a half. We've also not brought through any of our own youngsters into the first team in quite some time.

I'm not saying that's all CD's fault, by the way. I think a lot of what we're seeing now is the knock-on effect of the club's understandable reluctance to invest in the squad during lockdown. I'd say the club were right to have that cautious attitude at the time, but after being in a brilliant position to capitalise on last season's circumstances, we've stood still (and now gone backwards) and other clubs have overtaken us.

Not strengthening ahead of the European games was criminal and has probably cost us a lot of money (not to mention incredible memories we could have had - which is surely what it's all about). Selling McCann for a pitiful fee on the last minute of the deadline with no adequate replacement in mind was arguably even worse. These things aren't CD's fault either and I think he resorts to loans because that's all his budget allows. Just because he's not complaining about the budget in the way Tommy Wright did, doesn't mean that problem has gone away.

We desperately need the board to get behind Davidson in January and back him to strengthen properly and bring in the players he wants and make this his team. But can people honestly see the club pushing the boat out now, to tie down expensive longer term players when we may end up going down?

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

Just a few random thoughts after last night.

If you look at the players who have started most games under CD and who he clearly trusts - Clark, Rooney, Gordon, McCart, Booth, Spoony, MOH and Kane, plus Kerr and McCann before they left - those players were all signed or brought through by Tommy Wright. Nearly all of Callum's additions, with the exception of perhaps Bryson, McNamara and Crawford, have struggled to hold down a place in the team. And most of them have been temporary signings.

Inheriting Tommy Wright's team is probably as cushy a position as you can come into as a new manager. The squad already had the heart, the discipline, the organisation. CD really only had to tweak a few things to get them playing his way and inject a bit of freshness. I actually see a lot of similarities between this and when Sandy Clark took over from Paul Sturrock.

But now we're in a situation where good players have left and not been replaced, others are getting too old to be relied on, and the squad basically hasn't been developed in a year and a half. We've also not brought through any of our own youngsters into the first team in quite some time.

I'm not saying that's all CD's fault, by the way. I think a lot of what we're seeing now is the knock-on effect of the club's understandable reluctance to invest in the squad during lockdown. I'd say the club were right to have that cautious attitude at the time, but after being in a brilliant position to capitalise on last season's circumstances, we've stood still (and now gone backwards) and other clubs have overtaken us.

Not strengthening ahead of the European games was criminal and has probably cost us a lot of money (not to mention incredible memories we could have had - which is surely what it's all about). Selling McCann for a pitiful fee on the last minute of the deadline with no adequate replacement in mind was arguably even worse. These things aren't CD's fault either and I think he resorts to loans because that's all his budget allows. Just because he's not complaining about the budget in the way Tommy Wright did, doesn't mean that problem has gone away.

We desperately need the board to get behind Davidson in January and back him to strengthen properly and bring in the players he wants and make this his team. But can people honestly see the club pushing the boat out now, to tie down expensive longer term players when we may end up going down?

The manager turned down permanent alternatives as he wanted MacPherson/Crawford on loan, and viewed them as permanent signings after.

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We all knew this was coming! Anyone who has watched us this season could see that we had regressed and the new guys have just not measured up. Maybe there has been a bit complacency on everyone's part at the club.

We have arguably lost our three best players ( including Spoony to injury). There is absolutley no point in going over the McCann situation - it's done and we don't know how Ali's form might have been affected if we kept him - he's gone get over it.

The lack of goals has been a problem for a few seasons and we've never really been able to get a reliable consistant goal scorer; even Tony Watt falttered to deceive when he was here. Our midfield players have always chipped in with goals in the past few seasons and this hasn't happened this year.

In the past few weeks we've managed to get points against Hearts when we've been under the cosh and a great win at Tannadice mainly down to Zander. I came away from McD after we played St.Mirren thinking we'll never get a more valuable point.

Facing up to the fact that we are in trouble will hopefully be the catalyst for us turning this around to steer us away from relegation.

We have never had a bigger league game in recent years as the one we face on Saturday against Ross County.

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44 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

Just a few random thoughts after last night.

If you look at the players who have started most games under CD and who he clearly trusts - Clark, Rooney, Gordon, McCart, Booth, Spoony, MOH and Kane, plus Kerr and McCann before they left - those players were all signed or brought through by Tommy Wright. Nearly all of Callum's additions, with the exception of perhaps Bryson, McNamara and Crawford, have struggled to hold down a place in the team. And most of them have been temporary signings.

Inheriting Tommy Wright's team is probably as cushy a position as you can come into as a new manager. The squad already had the heart, the discipline, the organisation. CD really only had to tweak a few things to get them playing his way and inject a bit of freshness. I actually see a lot of similarities between this and when Sandy Clark took over from Paul Sturrock.

But now we're in a situation where good players have left and not been replaced, others are getting too old to be relied on, and the squad basically hasn't been developed in a year and a half. We've also not brought through any of our own youngsters into the first team in quite some time.

I'm not saying that's all CD's fault, by the way. I think a lot of what we're seeing now is the knock-on effect of the club's understandable reluctance to invest in the squad during lockdown. I'd say the club were right to have that cautious attitude at the time, but after being in a brilliant position to capitalise on last season's circumstances, we've stood still (and now gone backwards) and other clubs have overtaken us.

Not strengthening ahead of the European games was criminal and has probably cost us a lot of money (not to mention incredible memories we could have had - which is surely what it's all about). Selling McCann for a pitiful fee on the last minute of the deadline with no adequate replacement in mind was arguably even worse. These things aren't CD's fault either and I think he resorts to loans because that's all his budget allows. Just because he's not complaining about the budget in the way Tommy Wright did, doesn't mean that problem has gone away.

We desperately need the board to get behind Davidson in January and back him to strengthen properly and bring in the players he wants and make this his team. But can people honestly see the club pushing the boat out now, to tie down expensive longer term players when we may end up going down?

 

 

 

Agree with most of this. However, all football contracts routinely have release clauses covering various circumstances, including relegation.
 

I still think relegation is unlikely simply because there are other teams worse than us. In the last 10 days, we ran Celtic and Hibs very close, and we are not getting hammered by anyone - you can see this in the respective goal differences. 

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2 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

The manager turned down permanent alternatives as he wanted MacPherson/Crawford on loan, and viewed them as permanent signings after.

Has Davidson said this? And who were the players? MacPherson and Crawford may well be better than them.

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12 hours ago, HOODLUM65 said:

Never been so disheartened by a  Saints performance than this.

Let's just hope that the team can lift the gloom,  with a result on Sat.

C.o.y.s.

They better its my feckin 82nd birthday on Saturday, a good result would be a good start to the day:rolleyes:

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Honestly dont know how anyone at the club didnt see this coming. We sat in the Summer, not bringing anyone in whilst every other club strengthened and boosted their numbers. All our signings were last minute and by being loans its either down to finance or CD isnt completely sure that they would work long term. Our big Summer signing Eetu, nevermind the debacle getting the papers for him, if he wasnt ready straight away then it wasnt the right signing. We needed someone ready for the European games not to mention Scottish football. He seems an okay player that might come good in time but my mind boggles as to why we signed him when we did. Anyway I thought we would struggle last year so what do I know. Arguably we lost a Semi Final by 1 goal only a couple of weeks ago. If we had won that Im sure we would have all been confident we could get out of the rut and had a final to look forward to.

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We went through some horrendous dips in form under Tommy but he always turned it around. It's easy being a manager when things are going right and everybody is doing their job properly. Not taking anything away from his achievements last year but I guess we are going to see how good a Manager Callum really is.

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On 12/2/2021 at 11:35 AM, SlickDT said:

You know that for a stone cold fact?

 

23 hours ago, blueheaven said:

Has Davidson said this? And who were the players? MacPherson and Crawford may well be better than them.

Still no reply. 

On 12/2/2021 at 12:02 PM, Brian Potter said:

I’m not sure how much of an attraction playing in the euro qualifiers actually were in terms of attracting players. 

It was more a glamour tie ('this is the sort of game players want to play in' etc etc) plus a very good chance of playing in the Conference group stages if knocked out of the EL as expected. 

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On 12/2/2021 at 7:15 AM, Melbourne Saint said:

Then the Broonie fan club came out and slagged anyone that noted that we were royally shafted by the McCann deal & the future was bleak - go look back. 

I don't need to look back. It was one of my posts the club sycophant replied to with one of his nauseating, playing to the Steve fanboy crowd diatribes. My toes still haven't fully uncurled. 

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8 hours ago, Sergei said:

I don't need to look back. It was one of my posts the club sycophant replied to with one of his nauseating, playing to the Steve fanboy crowd diatribes. My toes still haven't fully uncurled. 

I really think SB has had enough of this football malarkey. It's taking up too much time with his business interests. 

He's gone on record multiple times that he wants out, but only if the approach "is in the best interests of the club". 

It's interesting because we're the only pro club that has remained in a family dynasty... For 34 years (or whatever it is, GB took over in '87?). 

I just wonder if he truly wants out now & may change/reduce his expectations of a bid.

After all, he did make a messy transfer happen...

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11 hours ago, Melbourne Saint said:

He's gone on record multiple times that he wants out, but only if the approach "is in the best interests of the club". 

That's the sentance that always interests me.

Its one of those ones where when push comes to shove no matter how good an offer or how rich some oil Barron may be will it ever be good enough?

It will be a hard wrench for the Browns to sell or hand the club over. We all know they have the best interests of the club at heart but I often wonder if they see the Brown way as the only way to run it and anyone with differing ideas will be seen as not right. They may be right in this but different is not always worse.

It just feels a bit like a no man...or woman...is good enough for my daughter scenario

Edited by Shaggy Jenkins

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1 hour ago, Shaggy Jenkins said:

That's the sentance that always interests me.

Its one of those ones where when push comes to shove no matter how good an offer or how rich some oil Barron may be will it ever be good enough?

It will be a hard wrench for the Browns to sell or hand the club over. We all know they have the best interests of the club at heart but I often wonder if they see the Brown way as the only way to run it and anyone with differing ideas will be seen as not right. They may be right in this but different is not always worse.

It just feels a bit like a no man...or woman...is good enough for my daughter scenario

He's not ran the club, day to day, for about 3 years now has he?

That's why Kirsten Robertson, and now Scott Boyd, were brought in.

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25 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

He's not ran the club, day to day, for about 3 years now has he?

That's why Kirsten Robertson, and now Scott Boyd, were brought in.

Could you let us know about the permanent signings Callum turned down so that he could bring in loans instead please.

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59 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

He's not ran the club, day to day, for about 3 years now has he?

That's why Kirsten Robertson, and now Scott Boyd, were brought in.

Not physically no.....but I'm pretty sure whoever is there day to day is under pretty clear instructions on how things are to be done

May explain the ever revolving position that is head of football whatever 

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