POLL: Should Craig Levein be sacked?

[RandomGuy]

18 minutes ago, Linky said:

I know it’s a small thing, but I think at least MacLean and Levein look(ed) like they care - as if the defeat hits them hard. Davidson just didn’t look like he was bothered at all.

I think Davidson cared, but just didn't express it well. I think some people are just like that and a bit uncomfortable showing everything publicly. 

MacLean was too emotional I think.

Levein seems to find the middle ground more, and that middle ground is where managers probably need to be. Just sometimes he seems exhausted by it all, and you wonder how often he reconsiders his decision to go into management but maybe feels bad if he's brought Kirk away from a good management job only to bail on him and leave him in the lurch.

[Cagey]

1 hour ago, Linky said:

I think Levein’s post match interviews are interesting. Davidson always heeed and haaawd his way through in this really breezy way like it was nae bother, and we’d actually played really well despite what everyone thought.

MacLean looked like he was about to have a breakdown. He was so anxious and angry.

Levein just looks really depressed. In the last interview he actually said to the interviewer he couldn’t answer a question because he was too disappointed. He certainly doesn’t come across as not caring or joking around, he looks a bit desperate actually. I think he knows that this is really his last chance at managing a professional club.

Last job should have been his last one and he and everyone else thought it was.

[Strawman]

We are playing more attractive football this year, big plus for that BUT……

I’m not convinced ……

My biggest worry about Levein is how he treats players.

Im happy if anyone proves me wrong on this but I can see how if I was a dad of a player wanting to sign for us,  my advice would be stay clear.

Do we know if Rae was injured yesterday, it’s been suggested not, Sinclair in goal and Rae not in squad leaves Craig Hepburn on bench. When Sinclair went down injured he might have had to come on. Craigs a really good keeper but so far he’s had a good season at Luncarty followed by a good season at Cowdenbeath. I think he’s a great future in front of him but Lowland league to Premier with no games in between, give the lad a proper chance.

McPake, Smith , Max, Sprangler possibly Keltjons, why sign them and then ruin their confidence and hang them out to dry.

I could add how he treated Stevie May ( easily better than the performances Nicky Clark has given us over last 6 months)

Levein seem to isolate players, leave them out of things, you could say bully them out of the club.

Its this reason as much as anything I d love him gone.

Word goes round and I can see how players wouldn’t want to sign for us.

 

 

[Willie Peat]

48 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

I thought he'd looked, and seemed, more upbeat this season, but the one I saw yesterday (i stopped listening to interviews after TW left really), was grim looking.

He looks tired and I worry the enthusiasm he had for the "project" he started will wane pretty quickly if it keeps going wrong, and we'll be left with an unmotivated manager and an inexperienced squad with no direction.

The man has already had one heart attack and I'm sure Mrs Levein must be wondering if her husband's job is worth all the stress. He also seems to have put on a bit of weight since last year.

[Cagey]

6 minutes ago, Willie Peat said:

The man has already had one heart attack and I'm sure Mrs Levein must be wondering if her husband's job is worth all the stress. He also seems to have put on a bit of weight since last year.

A bit . Last time I saw a belly like that was in Orlando. Must be comfort eating.

[Cagey]

I want him gone but who do we bring in and more important who would want it I en that we can't even get players to sign for us.

Last season I would have said McCabe from Airdrie but this season I don't think they have won a game and had a few hammerings. Maye that's because Rae has gone.

[RandomGuy]

53 minutes ago, Strawman said:

Do we know if Rae was injured yesterday

Levein confirmed there was no injury, he just decided to keep him out the squad entirely.

[Linky]

20 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Levein confirmed there was no injury, he just decided to keep him out the squad entirely.

I think people are assuming this is about Levein freezing him out somehow, I think it’s more likely the player has asked for a break after the last match. I thought he’s looked really dejected after making mistakes, and Levein has always defended him 

[Gekko]

1 hour ago, Cagey said:

I want him gone but who do we bring in and more important who would want it I en that we can't even get players to sign for us.

Last season I would have said McCabe from Airdrie but this season I don't think they have won a game and had a few hammerings. Maye that's because Rae has gone.

I've never been in the McCabe fan club. Don't know why, just never rated him as an option for us.

Funnily enough, I was watching some of the old firm game today, and John Kennedy the Celtic assistant was on screen.

I remember previously hearing a discussion about him, saying that he fancied becoming a manager.

He's been at Celtic for ages, under various managers. You'd think he'd have picked up some good ideas and experience.

If he could make Saints play even remotely like Celtic did today, I'd be well up for that.

Those Japanese boys up front are something else, and that German lad Kuhn was excellent as well.

It's going to be fun going up against them isn't it?

[Mizfit]

Get him out the door on Monday. And remind him to take his podcast gear as well. 

[Rafa]

Too Defensive, he wont change, decent squad for next guy to start from though

[blueheaven]

18 hours ago, dave mc said:

It’s like we’re programmed to go across the back three over and over, when we can miss a wide cb out and give it straight to a wing back,and then get forward quicker, how many times did we get to the by line and cross? None that I remember, everything is so slow and methodical, gives teams so much time to get into shape 😢😢😢

Going back to the Morton game in the League Cup, I was encouraged by how we set up with a solid 4-4-2 and had Keltjens at right-back behind Drey Wright. I know it was against a poor Morton side but I thought it looked like those two players were linking up well with each other and Keltjens looked really good at overlapping Wright and getting to the byeline to send crosses in. I'm not sure why we've abandoned that and Keltjens suddenly seems out of the picture. For me, as an all-round footballer, he's several levels above guys like Neilson, Sanders and McClelland who Levein seems to prefer for some reason, and he's also a better player than Wright.

Our formation/system seems all over the place at the moment and I wonder if it's because the left side of the pitch looks suited to a wing-back system (Raymond) but the right side looks better suited to playing a wide midfielder (Wright) with a more traditional right-back behind them. On Saturday we often had Raymond patrolling the whole left side of the pitch on his own, while at times we had two or three players trying to play on the right (and sometimes no one in the middle). It all just felt really confusing. When Levein arrived I thought at the very least he'd get us going back to basics with a solid formation and clear instructions for players, but it's very obvious that that hasn't happened. The players all just look confused and too often there are three or four of them in the wrong position.

[Gekko]

I'm also very much of the opinion we should go back to basics and concentrate on being a well organised and hard to beat team.

With our current squad, this for me would be 4-4-2.

As mentioned by @blueheaven, the Keltjens and Wright combination was starting to work. I know Keltjens got injured but now he's back, the management team for some reason don't seem to want to revisit it.

I've no idea why Keltjens is now on the naughty step along with Sprangler.

He's a far better option there than Neilson in my opinion.

Play Raymond at left back, with Carey in front of him, where he's actually supposed to be, and the four at the back is easily sorted and works well.

I'd have Sanders and Cameron as the centre backs, Smith and Holt in midfield, then Kimpioka and A.N.Other up front, depending on availability.

That's it, simple. That's a decent side who I'm sure wouldn't struggle like the way we did at the weekend.

It would work basically because everybody would be in their favourite positions, so each would know what they're supposed to be doing, and they'd be playing to their strengths.

I wish Levein would stop trying to be Man City, and instead start being St. Johnstone by setting up and keeping it simple, while also playing players in their preferred positions.

[Graeme S]

On 8/31/2024 at 9:36 PM, Ritspeed said:

It's fatuous and irrelevant but I can't help thinking that Tommy Wright would have got more from this squad.

It's only fatuous and irrelevant if we couldn't get Tommy to come back and bring some of his qualities that made us well organised, fit and hard to beat. 

Oh Tommy where are you when we need you? 🙏

[Cumbernauld Saint]

Could bring in Ian Murray since Raith jumped the gun sacking him. Or a more unrealistic option of John McGlynn from Falkirk - they’re flying at the moment but probably too early in the season for that… maybe in January… 

don’t think bringing back Tommy would do either side any favours, he left us so why should he want to come back?

Edited September 2, 2024 by Cumbernauld Saint

[blueheaven]

I'm on board the Bring Back Tommy bus. He knows the club, we know him, he knows how to get the best out of limited players and build a team for the long term, he's good at youth development, his in-game management is miles better than anyone who has come after him, and he knows how to work with a restricted budget. I also feel it would generally give the place a boost. Right now I can't think of a better or more appropriate candidate. And from what I've heard he wants the job, too.

I've always fancied the idea of getting David Healy in and that might be worth an approach but it seems farly clear he doesn't want to leave Linfield.

I've never really been sold on the Rhys McCabe idea, and I'm not sure now's the time to look around for other candidates who'd be going into their first management job so that would rule out quite a few others.

[RandomGuy]

I've never been impressed watching Linfield under Healy. He leaves them wide open and it's really just his squads ability that means they're not getting ripped apart constantly.

I didn't realise McCabe only signs players from one agency until Airdrie fans started mentioning it this Summer too. Apparently he just gets a list from Consillium and picks who he wants off that.

[Gekko]

2 hours ago, blueheaven said:

And from what I've heard he wants the job, too.

Whoah! I'd never heard this!

I presumed that he'd be happy in his under 21s role with Northern Ireland. What with living at home, the chance of the big job etc.

If that's the case, and he'd like a club job again, we should make this happen before anybody else gets hold of him.

We could do is the same as Hearts did and move Levein upstairs, he might even prefer that. Keep Kirk on as coach if that's a dealbreaker, but most of all, get the great TW back in the building.

The very thought of it being a possibility is a massive boost, imagine what it would be like if it actually happened.

The fact that we didn't fight harder to keep him was always shocking. If there's now a possibility to get a second chance, we should be jumping all over that.

And if anybody thinks..."No, not for me. You don't go back etc." Watch the 2014 cup final with our drive, organisation and intensity. Then watch the Motherwell game again with our none of those, and then decide whether or not you'd go back.

Add me to the Tommy bus, I'll even collect the tickets.

[Willie Peat]

I've taken a front seat on the Tommy bus!

[Cumbernauld Saint]

1 hour ago, Gekko said:

And if anybody thinks..."No, not for me. You don't go back etc." Watch the 2014 cup final with our drive, organisation and intensity. Then watch the Motherwell game again with our none of those, and then decide whether or not you'd go back.

But that was ten years ago - a lot has changed in football tactically. Look at Wright’s tenure at Killie - got them relegated to the championship and were sitting fifth when he got sacked… 

In my opinion, you’ll be getting the same thing with Wright as Levein. Yes he may be more defensively sound and would probably be more stable for the first 12 months he’s in the job, but then things will go stale pretty quickly once other managers have found how to exploit his tactics… need an exciting manager with new and fresh ideas. 

[rik2304]

At one of the open nights after CD was sacked they were saying that the club and Gus MacPherson personally had received loads of calls from people interested in the job and I've no reason to believe it would have been different after Macca left. 

I'd love to know who showed interest and I'm sure Saints are still an attractive enough prospect for a manager that believes in himself. 

It's staggering they made the lazy decision to appoint Macca and then to actually talk a guy out of retirement. One who'd not exactly done well in his last job either.

[Willie Peat]

7 minutes ago, rik2304 said:

At one of the open nights after CD was sacked they were saying that the club and Gus MacPherson personally had received loads of calls from people interested in the job and I've no reason to believe it would have been different after Macca left. 

I'd love to know who showed interest and I'm sure Saints are still an attractive enough prospect for a manager that believes in himself. 

It's staggering they made the lazy decision to appoint Macca and then to actually talk a guy out of retirement. One who'd not exactly done well in his last job either.

You are quite correct in saying that it was a lazy decision to appoint Macca on a permanent basis but we must be grateful to him for keeping us in the league that season with little time left in which to do it. At the end of that season the club should have tried to find a position for him with a club at a slightly lower level so that he could hone managerial and coaching skills (and done the same with Liam Craig) with a view to returning to Saints one day in the future with some experience. As you also rightly say, bringing someone out of retirement was not the cleverest of ideas and spoke of a lack of ambition.

[Graeme S]

Tommy presided over the most successful period in Saints history. 

His teams were always well organised, fit and hard to beat. That ethos works in any type of football. He did it on a budget that is a fraction of what he's successors have been given and had a connection with the support the likes of which I've never seen in 57 years. 

Look back at the 2014 Final when he had the cup in his hands - you just knew he understood what it meant to the fans. I contrast that with 2021 when Davidson won, you could see the thought "oh boy this will be great for my career" was written all over his face. 

Tommy didn't buy a team of stars, he brought players in quietly - Spoony, Liam (back) etc, and quietly filled spots. The team seemed to play for each other and would run through walls for each other.  CD then dismantled the team, but, more importantly, the team spirit, which is where we find ourselves today. 

 

As a great man once said, "you may get clubs with bigger supports, you may get clubs with bigger budgets, but you will NEVER get a club with a bigger heart than St Johnstone" I'd love to credit it, but it doesn't take a genius to work out who said it. 

I'm on the bus. 

[Ritspeed]

2 hours ago, Gekko said:

Whoah! I'd never heard this!

I presumed that he'd be happy in his under 21s role with Northern Ireland. What with living at home, the chance of the big job etc.

If that's the case, and he'd like a club job again, we should make this happen before anybody else gets hold of him.

We could do is the same as Hearts did and move Levein upstairs, he might even prefer that. Keep Kirk on as coach if that's a dealbreaker, but most of all, get the great TW back in the building.

The very thought of it being a possibility is a massive boost, imagine what it would be like if it actually happened.

The fact that we didn't fight harder to keep him was always shocking. If there's now a possibility to get a second chance, we should be jumping all over that.

And if anybody thinks..."No, not for me. You don't go back etc." Watch the 2014 cup final with our drive, organisation and intensity. Then watch the Motherwell game again with our none of those, and then decide whether or not you'd go back.

Add me to the Tommy bus, I'll even collect the tickets.

Blueheaven's comment brought me up short as well.  I'd be more than happy to eat my earlier 'fatuous and irrelevant' comment!  A return might just be feasible.  There's been enough of a gap, a change of regime etc.

Might need more than one bus!

[RandomGuy]

2 hours ago, Cumbernauld Saint said:

In my opinion, you’ll be getting the same thing with Wright as Levein. Yes he may be more defensively sound and would probably be more stable for the first 12 months he’s in the job, but then things will go stale pretty quickly once other managers have found how to exploit his tactics

It never happened last time, over almost a decade long period, so why would managers suddenly "figure out and exploit" him now?