POLL: Should Craig Levein be sacked?

[Cumbernauld Saint]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy said:

It never happened last time, over almost a decade long period, so why would managers suddenly "figure out and exploit" him now?

Because the league is far much better now than it was 10 years ago. Rangers weren't in the picture until much later on, Hibs, Dundee Utd and Hearts relegated and spending a good few seasons in the championship between them. Only Aberdeen, besides Celtic, could you call a "good" team back then and that's pushing it.

Everyone, including myself, is complaining about Levein being hired despite the failure in his last job, so why does the same not apply to Wright with Killie? I would be happy to bring Tommy back as an assistant manager, since he knows the club well, but remembering back to the last couple of seasons before Covid I could see the trajectory of the team going down not up. Could get that new manager bounce though... 

[rik2304]

18 minutes ago, Cumbernauld Saint said:

Because the league is far much better now than it was 10 years ago. Rangers weren't in the picture until much later on, Hibs, Dundee Utd and Hearts relegated and spending a good few seasons in the championship between them. Only Aberdeen, besides Celtic, could you call a "good" team back then and that's pushing it.

Everyone, including myself, is complaining about Levein being hired despite the failure in his last job, so why does the same not apply to Wright with Killie? I would be happy to bring Tommy back as an assistant manager, since he knows the club well, but remembering back to the last couple of seasons before Covid I could see the trajectory of the team going down not up. Could get that new manager bounce though... 

I definitely don't think that the trajectory of the team was going down. Tommy played a huge part in the Double winners team being assembled.

[RandomGuy]

34 minutes ago, Cumbernauld Saint said:

Because the league is far much better now than it was 10 years ago. Rangers weren't in the picture until much later on, Hibs, Dundee Utd and Hearts relegated and spending a good few seasons in the championship between them. Only Aberdeen, besides Celtic, could you call a "good" team back then and that's pushing it.

Everyone, including myself, is complaining about Levein being hired despite the failure in his last job, so why does the same not apply to Wright with Killie? I would be happy to bring Tommy back as an assistant manager, since he knows the club well, but remembering back to the last couple of seasons before Covid I could see the trajectory of the team going down not up. Could get that new manager bounce though... 

Nah. That's just downplaying TWs achievements for no reason. The league isn't better at all now. Aberdeen finished in the bottom half last season, Hibs will this season, and Hearts are fluctuating too.

When Tommy Wright left we were the 2nd best team in the country over the previous 5 months (form wise, we'd picked up more points than Rangers), including battering Gerrards Rangers at McDiarmid. 

Edited September 2, 2024 by RandomGuy

[Cumbernauld Saint]

16 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Nah. That's just downplaying TWs achievements for no reason. The league isn't better at all now. Aberdeen finished in the bottom half last season, Hibs will this season, and Hearts are fluctuating too.

When Tommy Wright left we were the 2nd best team in the country over the previous 5 months (form wise, we'd picked up more points than Rangers), including battering Gerrards Rangers at McDiarmid. 

I just think it’s a little sentimental that’s all. Wouldn’t want his legacy to be tarnished if the fans turn on him. Obviously I want my opinion to be wrong, I’m just not on the edge of my seat waiting for us re-sign an ex-manager… Steve Lomas got us third so why not get them both back. 

[Quarterback]

CL has brought in around 14 players in total if you include the fact that he gave Sven a contract extension. I would personally give CL until at least the end of November where I would realistically expect at least 12-13 points in that time. Ross County x 2, Hibs, Dundee are winnable games (St Mirren, Motherwell and Killie - Win or Draw) and as long as the team are competitive in the other matches then he just has to manage expectations. I think going forward we a manager  can give the lads confidence to play, protect players and take it on the chin when things go wrong and not make players take the brunt, have a playing philosophy, use technology to inform decisions, don't be afraid to change things during a game, rest tired players, target winnable games, showcase some of the youngsters for cameos so we are able to monetise some of them before they move on for peanuts, understand that skills and attributes that are needed (defending crosses, creating chances in midfield, experienced leader on the pitch) and target those players early. Have a moral compass that deals with issues which bring the club into disrepute to show leadership - might have been an AW thing. If those things happened you would back him because he backs himself and sticks by his guns.

[Melbourne Saint]

On 9/2/2024 at 3:32 AM, Linky said:

I know it’s a small thing, but I think at least MacLean and Levein look(ed) like they care - as if the defeat hits them hard. Davidson just didn’t look like he was bothered at all.

I'm sorry to say this, but it feels like we're on the Titanic... Mr Webb needs a màstourch...

[Graeme S]

18 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I also feel it would generally give the place a boost.

I think you'd get a turnout similar to Geoff's last game, for The Return of The King 👑 😃

[blueheaven]

12 hours ago, Cumbernauld Saint said:

Because the league is far much better now than it was 10 years ago. Rangers weren't in the picture until much later on, Hibs, Dundee Utd and Hearts relegated and spending a good few seasons in the championship between them. Only Aberdeen, besides Celtic, could you call a "good" team back then and that's pushing it.

I keep seeing people say this about Tommy's time and it's just the biggest myth going. Obviously every team moved up one place thanks to Rangers being out of the league, but as for the rest of them? Why would Hibs, Hearts and Dundee United being relegated make the league easier? Those teams were all relegated because they weren't good enough. Hibs and Dundee Utd weren't even able to get out of a lower league for several seasons. Why do people think it would make a league stronger if you put teams into it who hadn't been good enough? The fact is, Tommy's Saints competed against the best teams in the country, on merit, at that time.

I see nothing on a Saturday to suggest the league is any better now than it was 10 years ago. Quite a lot of the teams are actually weaker (Saints being one of them). Seriously, the high esteem a lot of Saints fans seem to hold Hibs in is something I'll never fail to be baffled by. 

 

12 hours ago, Cumbernauld Saint said:

Everyone, including myself, is complaining about Levein being hired despite the failure in his last job, so why does the same not apply to Wright with Killie? I would be happy to bring Tommy back as an assistant manager, since he knows the club well, but remembering back to the last couple of seasons before Covid I could see the trajectory of the team going down not up. Could get that new manager bounce though... 

This just isn't true. Before Tommy left he'd taken us into the Top 6, we were in very strong form, and what's more he'd put together the new generation of Saints players that would go on to finish 5th and win the Double just a year later.

I've never understood why some Saints fans seem to consider Tommy's few months at Kilmarnock as more relevant than the seven years he spent here, in front of their own eyes, building the most successful era we've ever had and creating several different generations of successful Saints team. He's quite simply the best manager we've ever had, by miles, and allowing him to walk away was the biggest mistake the Browns ever made.

 

[Northern saint]

I don't underestimate Tommy Wright's importance in Saints history but I'm not sure his return as manager would work.  Perhaps as a director of fotball with a young head coach to aid him or her to develop would work.  

There is no doubt Levein is no longer capable of providing a structure of play which takes advantage of the abilities of the players.  That was one of Tommy's strengths.  Levein last managerial position showed that up as well, so the signs were there.  The haphazard transfer window and contract extensions on players he won't use multiply the image of not being focussed on the football team.  The same mistakes game after game.  

Scottish football is in dire need of change.  I've said before we should look for coaches from countries like Portugal, Georgia as they are producing a lot of talent and attractive football.  If our coach can get three/four players through from our youth teams each year, it would allow the whole of our teams to have a system inbuilt through years of coaching.  

Webb has this international break to make the necessary changes or by November I fear it will be too late.  

Slot has improved Liverpool in a couple of months.  Ten Haag hasn't improved Manu in two years.  Levein hasn't managed to instil a way of playing, of preventing the goals we are conceding in a year.  There's no sign that will change.

 

[blueheaven]

50 minutes ago, Northern saint said:

I don't underestimate Tommy Wright's importance in Saints history but I'm not sure his return as manager would work.  Perhaps as a director of fotball with a young head coach to aid him or her to develop would work.  

I'm not sure why you'd bring someone back on the strength of the good job they've done before, only to give them a completely different job. Surely the whole point of getting him back would be to do the thing we know he's been successful at. If you're going to bring him back but in a different role, you're probably actually increasing the risk of the appointment going wrong, rather than reducing it.

I'm not even all that sure what a Director of Football would bring to a club like Saints. I'd much rather just let the manager manage, and if there's a budget for new appointments then make those appointments in marketing and player recruitment.

There's always a risk with any managerial appointment and there's no guarantee Tommy would be a success second time around, but based on what we know, and what we've seen, I'd consider him to be the safest option for taking us forward.

 

 

 

[RandomGuy]

The biggest thing we need is a good feeling between club and support again. Owen Coyle revitalised the whole club after the Connolly disaster and that carried on for years.

Tommy Wright would get the full support behind him and you'd have folk backing the players a lot more IMO. Just now it feels like we're just waiting to fail and have a go at Levein because everyone knows it's going to fail.

[Radford 72]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy said:

The biggest thing we need is a good feeling between club and support again. Owen Coyle revitalised the whole club after the Connolly disaster and that carried on for years.

I've wondered for a while now whether this is possible in the Premiership. It's why I haven't feared relegation over the past few seasons.

I was possibly at the stage of embracing it last term but then something changed at Livingston and I was carried along on the wave as survival was secured.

But how do you build a feelgood factor in this league with our resources?

I'm certainly not convinced going back in time is the answer unfortunately.

[Graeme S]

3 minutes ago, Radford 72 said:

But how do you build a feelgood factor in this league with our resources?

I think the whole point to bringing back Tommy would be that he flourished in dire circumstances and with (apparently) less resources than are available now. His relationship with the support in itself built a feelgood factor at the club. We were always told how happy a dressing room it was (and how many players wanted to come here and play in his team, Swanson must have been on a bit of elastic!) and that breeds harmony and the want to fight for the guys on the field with you. 

I'm assuming his ability to build TEAMS and bring through young players a La the rebuilt squad of 2021 would fit nicely with Mr Webb's idea of making the team "self sustaining". He was tasked with reducing the age of the squad, which he did, and that squad went on to win 2 cups. 

[pezza70]

Has there been many changes at Cambridge since he took a share in the club?

So far every appointment has been a safe bet and I think he maybe go with the flow type of person instead of put the broom through the joint 

[andrew]

12 minutes ago, pezza70 said:

Has there been many changes at Cambridge since he took a share in the club?

So far every appointment has been a safe bet and I think he maybe go with the flow type of person instead of put the broom through the joint 

Only 10%

[Dooj]

Does Tommy even want a job back in Scottish football?

Also, if he is such a great team-builder etc. why aren't there clubs queuing up to appoint him?

Basically, if for some bizarre reason he did return he would come with a huge amount of goodwill and sentimentality but all the other things that you need to be successful may well be missing. I think that fans often overlook/forget that in addition to being a good manager, you also need a conjunction of good young players coming through, dependable backroom staff, experienced players at the right point in their careers as well as plenty of luck (and cash). 

Personally, I think any calls to bring back Tommy are way off the mark - that chapter is closed and we need to look to the future (with, at least in the short term, Levein).

[johndb]

On 7/8/2024 at 9:03 AM, blueheaven said:

There's absolutely no chance our team from the late 60s/early 70s was fitter than the current team.

They sprinted up and down that pitch for ninety minutes.  Even when there was a bit of TV footage it looked like they were on a 100 yard dash. Mind you the camera angles in the 60's exaggerated this. They didn't win as many cups but that 69 season was a corker..

[blueheaven]

1 hour ago, Dooj said:

Also, if he is such a great team-builder etc. why aren't there clubs queuing up to appoint him?

Why weren't clubs queuing up to poach him from us when he was Saints manager, and does that mean he wasn't doing a good job for us?

I'm not sure how we'd even really know whether or not he's getting other offers, and if so how many.

 

[Cagey]

Slow news fortnight  ?.

[sixties saintee]

3 hours ago, johndb said:

They sprinted up and down that pitch for ninety minutes.  Even when there was a bit of TV footage it looked like they were on a 100 yard dash. Mind you the camera angles in the 60's exaggerated this. They didn't win as many cups but that 69 season was a corker..

And they would hae walloped the saints team oer the last years

[R.B.B:- Adz]

Tommy Wright era was a total freak. Right man, right place, right time. Nothing revolutionary, nothing groundbreaking but worked every hour god gave and devoted it to building his worth as a manager. He managed to assemble a freak squad of likeminded players who just wanted to prove they were worthy of being a professional footballer, experience success and upset the apple cart as a collective force. Simply a thing of beauty! 

My appreciation, admiration and overall respect for Tommy Wright stands tall about ALL previous St Johnstone managers in my life time but bringing him back is the wrong move.

Edited September 3, 2024 by R.B.B:- Adz

[Graeme S]

45 minutes ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

Tommy Wright era was a total freak. Right man, right place, right time. Nothing revolutionary, nothing groundbreaking but worked every hour god gave and devoted it to building his worth as a manager. He managed to assemble a freak squad of likeminded players who just wanted to prove they were worthy of being a professional footballer, experience success and upset the apple cart as a collective force. Simply a thing of beauty! 

My appreciation, admiration and overall respect for Tommy Wright stands tall about ALL previous St Johnstone managers in my life time but bringing him back is the wrong move.

If it had been one or two seasons, I'd genuinely agree with you, but to do it consistently over almost 10 years, can't agree🤷‍♂️

[Strawman]

Alex Totten was my all time favourite manager, he was the first manager that made me believe, that run when we went up to Premier League, we beat Aberdeen 5-0, still amazes me, did me not then go on a run, we beat Hearts 3-2, drew with both Rangers and Celtic and possibly beat Dundee Utd, at the time, the best 5 teams in Scotland.

Then Tommy Wright came along ……..

The best manager we have ever had, he just got Saints and got Scottish Football. 
 

Obviously the Scottish Cup Win but he gave me the best few years to be a Saints fan.

Throughout all this time I’ve had a Season ticket and probably always will.

Im not sure he wants to come back though, much as I’d 

love it if he did.

If anyone wanted to start a fundraiser though for a Statue of him holding Scottish Cup somewhere outside ground, maybe where the Cow is just now, £100 from me straight away.

 

 

[Gekko]

1 hour ago, Strawman said:

we beat Aberdeen 5-0, still amazes me, did me not then go on a run, we beat Hearts 3-2, drew with both Rangers and Celtic and possibly beat Dundee Utd, at the time, the best 5 teams in Scotland.

 

I remember watching the Aberdeen game thinking...What is going on here?

Aberdeen had always been a huge team during the eighties.

And here we were in 1990, absolutely tearing them to bits. What a game that was. We hammered them. They were still a decent side as well.

The Daily Record said..."If Roddy had pace, he'd playing for Real Madrid!"

I just had a quick check, and unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any video evidence of that online. I genuinely can't remember seeing anything, even on the TV at the time. Just got the memories of the day itself.

It's a bit like the 7-2 Dundee game. Such a shame we can't revisit either one of those.

And yes, we went on a great run after that.

I remember watching Charlie Nicholas, who was back at Celtic at the time, moaning on the telly about how they were trying to catch us, but they just never seemed to be able to do it.

When they won, we won, so they never made up any ground. At the time, we were fourth and they were fifth.

It was a great time to stick it to your glory hunting, Celtic supporting mates.

They were raging.

Tremendous stuff.

Edited September 3, 2024 by Gekko

[sixties saintee]

1 hour ago, Strawman said:

Alex Totten was my all time favourite manager, he was the first manager that made me believe, that run when we went up to Premier League, we beat Aberdeen 5-0, still amazes me, did me not then go on a run, we beat Hearts 3-2, drew with both Rangers and Celtic and possibly beat Dundee Utd, at the time, the best 5 teams in Scotland.

Then Tommy Wright came along ……..

The best manager we have ever had, he just got Saints and got Scottish Football. 
 

Obviously the Scottish Cup Win but he gave me the best few years to be a Saints fan.

Throughout all this time I’ve had a Season ticket and probably always will.

Im not sure he wants to come back though, much as I’d 

love it if he did.

If anyone wanted to start a fundraiser though for a Statue of him holding Scottish Cup somewhere outside ground, maybe where the Cow is just now, £100 from me straight away.

 

 

I'll match it.