POLL: Should Craig Levein be sacked?

[Papa Jack]

32 minutes ago, Gekko said:

That's all down to the ex chairman though.

He admitted himself that he didn't, nor wanted to work hard at the job.

I think I've said this before, but when you think about it, every managerial appointment he made was either a previous, or current assistant.

It would be interesting to know some the names who applied.

You’re saying this as if we employed dumpling after dumpling as manager. Macca was the only poor appointment in about 20 years.

[RandomGuy]

46 minutes ago, Papa Jack said:

You’re saying this as if we employed dumpling after dumpling as manager. Macca was the only poor appointment in about 20 years.

I think he's on about Steve Brown, who's only appointments were Tommy Wright, Callum Davidson, and Steven MacLean. 

I think Geoff Browns final act was hiring Steve Lomas, and he's name checked by Levein about taking the job too.

[Gekko]

1 hour ago, Papa Jack said:

You’re saying this as if we employed dumpling after dumpling as manager. Macca was the only poor appointment in about 20 years.

 

26 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

I think he's on about Steve Brown, who's only appointments were Tommy Wright, Callum Davidson, and Steven MacLean. 

I think Geoff Browns final act was hiring Steve Lomas, and he's name checked by Levein about taking the job too.

Yes, spot on.

Maybe I should have made it clear that I was referring to Steve Brown.

His only managerial appointments were the three mentioned above by Random.

All internal, so very little, if any research was put into it.

[Strawman]

When Levein goes, and he will, just not sure when.

I d love if club did a process, gather applicants, pick 3/4 and interview them.

Get a manager that’s excited to get the job, not someone that thinks we are lucky to have him.

 

 

[Melbourne Saint]

8 minutes ago, Strawman said:

When Levein goes, and he will, just not sure when.

I d love if club did a process, gather applicants, pick 3/4 and interview them.

Get a manager that’s excited to get the job, not someone that thinks we are lucky to have him.

 

 

Who's the 3-4? We've demolished the board. Roddy still keeps standing... For the time being. I remember him well stumbling out of the Bridgend bar, the,208. Had to order to get a taxi home. I don't see a future with him. Club servant, legend. Hearts supporter. But he's dumb. Not a good appointment. Simples.

[Melbourne Saint]

Just now, Melbourne Saint said:

Who's the 3-4? We've demolished the board. Roddy still keeps standing... For the time being. I remember him well stumbling out of the Bridgend bar, the,208. Had to order to get a taxi home. I don't see a future with him. Club servant, legend. Hearts supporter. But he's dumb. Not a good appointment. Simples.

I don't see Roddy lasting long. Mr Webb won't stand for it 

[Cagey]

59 minutes ago, Melbourne Saint said:

I don't see Roddy lasting long. Mr Webb won't stand for it 

It was him that appointed Roddy. Whether it was on recommendation from Geoff/Stan or because he took him on a good pub crawl.

You have to question his judgement.

[blueheaven]

15 hours ago, Willie Peat said:

I bet John Hughes was one of them!

John Hughes was definitely interviewed by Saints for one of the recent vacancies but I think it was when Davidson got it rather than when Macca or Levein got it. I listened to Hughes on a Scottish football podcast a couple of years ago and he spoke about it in quite a bit of detail. Said Saints were one of the few clubs he'd applied to that he felt had been good to deal with and communicated well.

[blueheaven]

15 hours ago, Gekko said:

That's all down to the ex chairman though.

He admitted himself that he didn't, nor wanted to work hard at the job.

I think I've said this before, but when you think about it, every managerial appointment he made was either a previous, or current assistant.

It would be interesting to know some the names who applied.

I heard a while back that during the entire Brown ownership era, Steve Lomas was the only manager to be appointed off the back of a speculative application. Every other manager was either head-hunted or promoted from within.

Remember Steve Brown saying during his time in charge that he felt he always knew, at any given point, who he wanted the next manager to be if he had to make a change. I wonder if Webb is the same. I'd be absolutely amazed if Webb didn't have a few names in mind who he'd want to talk to, at the very least.

 

[Linky]

22 hours ago, Cagey said:

Whoever came in can't be worse than Levein. It's impossible.

John Hughes is on the phone

[Linky]

2 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I heard a while back that during the entire Brown ownership era, Steve Lomas was the only manager to be appointed off the back of a speculative application. Every other manager was either head-hunted or promoted from within.

Remember Steve Brown saying during his time in charge that he felt he always knew, at any given point, who he wanted the next manager to be if he had to make a change. I wonder if Webb is the same. I'd be absolutely amazed if Webb didn't have a few names in mind who he'd want to talk to, at the very least.

 

I just think Brown was steeped in Scottish football. I think Webb is a good thing, but he's still going to be working things out. He's probably never heard of Jody Morris, maybe someone mentioned Tommy to him, etc. etc.

I'd imagine, if he was going to appoint anyone at this stage it would be: someone he knew from the US, someone he knew from Cambridge (although how much time did he actually spend there) or a 'famous' name like Lennon.

[blueheaven]

33 minutes ago, Linky said:

I just think Brown was steeped in Scottish football. I think Webb is a good thing, but he's still going to be working things out. He's probably never heard of Jody Morris, maybe someone mentioned Tommy to him, etc. etc.

I'd imagine, if he was going to appoint anyone at this stage it would be: someone he knew from the US, someone he knew from Cambridge (although how much time did he actually spend there) or a 'famous' name like Lennon.

Would you say those options are necessarily bad, though? I mean, personally I wouldn't want Lennon, but the categories themselves I wouldn't have a problem with. Geoff Brown basically went down the 'famous name' route when he appointed Levein, so it's not as if Geoff was coming at it from a much better angle.

I think Geoff made some fantastic appointments during his time at Saints but I suspect the Levein appointment was indicative of him no longer having his finger on the pulse of Scottish football. He was able to appoint guys like Coyle and Sturrock because he knew from his contacts and daily involvement in the game that they were the up-and-coming coaches who would be the right fit for the club. I get the sense that after being away for a few years and coming back, he no longer had that sort of inside knowledge of who the bright sparks were at other clubs, so he just went for someone who had the reputation of being good 15-20 years ago.

Incidentally, I don't claim to have any inside info or anything like that but one thing I do know is that Webb is definitely familiar with who Tommy is and what his achievements were at Saints.

 

[Linky]

Personally, I think all this stuff about Levein being a lazy appointment is strange. In what way is it lazy?

I think they identified an experienced manager, with good contacts, who had had success before, with a clear succession programme in relation to his assistant (who was having success in the lower leagues) taking over in a few years time. I honestly don't think it was a 'he'll do' sort of appointment. They were specifically looking for something very different from MacLean.

That's why we didn't get a 'bright spark', because we were looking for experience to guide us through with a 'bright spark' (supposedly) waiting in the wings.

[rik2304]

4 hours ago, blueheaven said:

John Hughes was definitely interviewed by Saints for one of the recent vacancies but I think it was when Davidson got it rather than when Macca or Levein got it. I listened to Hughes on a Scottish football podcast a couple of years ago and he spoke about it in quite a bit of detail. Said Saints were one of the few clubs he'd applied to that he felt had been good to deal with and communicated well.

That probably just means that Roddy took him for a pint.

[dave mc]

Geoff got peeved at the board not getting on with finding a new manager,CL,was there at the time,and Geoff said,ok he’s your new manager,simples 

[blueheaven]

16 minutes ago, dave mc said:

Geoff got peeved at the board not getting on with finding a new manager,CL,was there at the time,and Geoff said,ok he’s your new manager,simples 

I've heard a few people say something similar, and if that's really how it all unfolded then I don't think anyone comes out of it looking particularly great.

I'd rather have seen them take a bit longer over it if it had meant getting the right manager in. I don't think there was any major rush at the time. I'd have happily seen Cleland carry on in charge for a few more games while the long-term plan got sorted out.

 

[Saintdunc]

31 minutes ago, dave mc said:

CL,was there at the time,and Geoff said,ok he’s your new manager,simples 

He was where at the time?????

 

 

[garydavidson]

3 minutes ago, Saintdunc said:

He was where at the time?????

McDiarmid watching a game.

[Graeme S]

2 hours ago, blueheaven said:

Incidentally, I don't claim to have any inside info or anything like that but one thing I do know is that Webb is definitely familiar with who Tommy is and what his achievements were at Saints.

 

Delighted to hear it, hope he's first on any short leet he's drawing up. 

[Linky]

Wait, you're saying the Levein was appointed manager because he happened to turn up to McDiarmed to watch a game, Geoff saw him and said "there's your new manager". As in, if it had been John Hughes turn up or Jack Ross, it would've been them instead?

[pezza70]

So wasn’t the plan for CL to go to the front office and hand the reigns over to Kirk.

its been reported everywhere that he runs most of the training sessions, so how much input does Kirk have on team selections and tactics and if he is running training why can’t we defend corners and set pieces?

[dave mc]

1 hour ago, Saintdunc said:

He was where at the time?????

 

 

At the game watching  Max,then in board room with Geoff ,hth

[dave mc]

43 minutes ago, Linky said:

Wait, you're saying the Levein was appointed manager because he happened to turn up to McDiarmed to watch a game, Geoff saw him and said "there's your new manager". As in, if it had been John Hughes turn up or Jack Ross, it would've been them instead?

Yes,no 

[blueheaven]

41 minutes ago, pezza70 said:

So wasn’t the plan for CL to go to the front office and hand the reigns over to Kirk.

Finding out we've finally gotten rid of Levein, only to discover Andy Kirk has been given his job, is pretty much my worst nightmare.

[Gekko]

Webb is supposed to be one of the best litigators in America and his built his business due to this.

That's a tough business, in an unforgiving country.

And you don't succeed in that kind of environment without knowing what direction you want to take, having the ability to make difficult decisions, and being ruthless when necessary.

I've no doubt that a person such as that, already has a plan for moving forward in mind.

Including who he wants to be involved.

Reading between the lines, and going by what the manager himself has said in the Sportsound interview that Aitchy mentioned, Levein doesn't seem to be part of it.

Also, Webb will be way more clued up than simply speaking to Roddy and Stan.

He'll also know all about Tommy and his achievements.