New Owner

[blueheaven]

I'm slightly dreading the beer thing if it ever gets introduced, TBH. My experience of it at English grounds is that the concourses/food areas become a pain in the arse to make your way through because of all the people standing around boozing and there's also an increase in people getting up and down to use the loo during games. And the abuse that a minority of people think is OK to yell at football matches is only going to get worse if you add alcohol to the equation. And as others have said, the idea of selling alcohol to OF fans is going to bring its own challenges.

I completely get Adam Webb's reasoning and that it's a way to make more money and bring people into the stadium earlier, but I'm a little bit sceptical about whether it'll actually make the matchday experience more enjoyable.

What I do really like is the idea of outdoor fanzones etc. McDiarmid Park is one of the few grounds around that actually has the space to make that work, and it would be brilliant if it could be like the experience you get in Germany where you can also buy streetfood, hot drinks, etc. I think it needs to be set up for the cold, rainy weather we often have here during the football season so would need to be more appealing than just a couple of stalls selling cold drinks. But I really, really wish the club had tried doing this sort of thing for our European games when we were getting big crowds in good weather.

 

[blueheaven]

12 minutes ago, Gekko said:

One more thing, remember when that young lass was attacked by Celtic fans in the North Stand when she was working at the kiosk? She was only 14.

Can you imagine how worse it would be if they were all getting tanked up during the game?

I like a beer as much as anybody, but it's a no from me during the game.

There's also the point that you need to be over 18 to sell alcohol, so a lot of our kiosk staff would suddenly find themselves out of work.

[blueheaven]

50 minutes ago, sane_tee said:

And if Adam Webb manages to reverse the beer ban, the Ormond Stand could be the beer-free stand. I don't want to get covered in beer at a football game, so I'd like somewhere to sit that prevents that from happening.

I imagine that if it happens, people will only be allowed to drink beer in the concourses, so fortunately there shouldn't be much chance of people chucking it around in the seated areas during games.

[Gekko]

6 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

I imagine that if it happens, people will only be allowed to drink beer in the concourses, so fortunately there shouldn't be much chance of people chucking it around in the seated areas during games.

I was at a game at St. James' Park in Newcastle, and as you said, each concourse on each floor was busy.

We were at the top, but you were allowed to take your beer into your seat at the game.

It was plastic containers with a snap on lid on it, but loads of people were drinking them during the game. Including us of course.

[Gekko]

28 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

What I do really like is the idea of outdoor fanzones etc. McDiarmid Park is one of the few grounds around that actually has the space to make that work, and it would be brilliant if it could be like the experience you get in Germany where you can also buy streetfood, hot drinks, etc. I think it needs to be set up for the cold, rainy weather we often have here during the football season so would need to be more appealing than just a couple of stalls selling cold drinks. But I really, really wish the club had tried doing this sort of thing for our European games when we were getting big crowds in good weather.

 

Totally agree with this.

I remember the Tulloch Institute had fan zones in their car park during the European games.

I wasn't there, but there are plenty of photographs and stories from people who were. They seemed to popular and well attended.

Edited February 6 by Gekko

[HOODLUM65]

I've been to Murrayfield and English football games where beer was on sale and didn't see anyone getting covered in alcohol, as suggested above.

Obviously the stewarding would need to be upped.

[MySpazz]

54 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

I'm slightly dreading the beer thing if it ever gets introduced, TBH. My experience of it at English grounds is that the concourses/food areas become a pain in the arse to make your way through because of all the people standing around boozing and there's also an increase in people getting up and down to use the loo during games. And the abuse that a minority of people think is OK to yell at football matches is only going to get worse if you add alcohol to the equation. And as others have said, the idea of selling alcohol to OF fans is going to bring its own challenges.

I completely get Adam Webb's reasoning and that it's a way to make more money and bring people into the stadium earlier, but I'm a little bit sceptical about whether it'll actually make the matchday experience more enjoyable.

What I do really like is the idea of outdoor fanzones etc. McDiarmid Park is one of the few grounds around that actually has the space to make that work, and it would be brilliant if it could be like the experience you get in Germany where you can also buy streetfood, hot drinks, etc. I think it needs to be set up for the cold, rainy weather we often have here during the football season so would need to be more appealing than just a couple of stalls selling cold drinks. But I really, really wish the club had tried doing this sort of thing for our European games when we were getting big crowds in good weather.

 

Dreading!

 

People getting up and down...

Mind the days of terraces...

Watch the match on TV, stay home.

 

 

 

[MySpazz]

1 hour ago, blueheaven said:

There's also the point that you need to be over 18 to sell alcohol, so a lot of our kiosk staff would suddenly find themselves out of work.

So negative 

That would mean, jobs for adults, paid a higher wage, more taxes, more jobs ....youngsters moved to separate place selling pies etc.

 

More jobs. Not less.

Investment, new busines, enhanced offer

[MySpazz]

6 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

ICT dropped to the 3rd tier because they had Scot Gardiner running the club and absolutely saddling them with debt. They lost 7 figures building a "battery farm" near the stadium that they didn't even own, and then he signed a kit manufacturing deal that cost ICT money.

It had literally nothing to do with how many tickets they did, or didn't, give the old firm.

It was the same with Falkirk and Dunfermline, before they get trotted out too. Financial mismanagement by shite owners eventually translates to what you can put on the park so the decline is inevitable. Falkirk scrapped their youth system and suddenly realised they needed to sign an extra handful of players every season while never receiving any transfer income. Dunfermline was purposely run into the ground.

Both support the basis of selling all the tickets you can.

 

Sustainability,  profitability and reality 

[blueheaven]

7 minutes ago, MySpazz said:

Dreading!

People getting up and down...

Mind the days of terraces...

Watch the match on TV, stay home.

Why would I do that when I want to go to matches?

Terracing is a completely different scenario (you don't have to get up and down, because you're already standing up), along with being irrelevant because it's not what McDiarmid has.

 

[MySpazz]

1 hour ago, Gekko said:

 

On the subject of alcohol during the game, any of us who have experienced the nightmare of the OF fans giving us serious grief and looking for a rammy during a game, the thought of what they'd be like if they got their hands on booze during it is a nightmare.

I've attended games in England where it's the norm, bit I think it's different in Scotland.

When I was younger at Muirton, we were playing Rangers, it must have been around 1975. I was in the centre stand at the front, just next to where the directors box was. There was a bunch of Rangers fans at the top of the stand with their carry outs.

We scored first, and I jumped up and cheered. The next thing, I had at least three beer bottles chucked at me. They all missed me but hit the wooden wall in front of me and smashed. It's only good fortune that the shards didn't do any damage.

I was just a young lad for crying out loud, 6 or 7 years old, I got a real shock.

That's what they were like with their booze. They were the same then as they are today. They're tanked up before they come in anyway. You see them downing it all around the ground before games.

And if anybody has had the misfortune of driving through Glasgow after an old firm game, you'll know what I'm talking about. Battles on every corner. It's like a warzone.

Nah, I'm not sure I support this beer at the game idea. I'm sure we can manage without it for a couple of hours.

You ever tried counselling....honestly,  "warzone"

The level of catastrophization on here is jump the shark territory 

If beer is sold its sure to be tightly managed and regulated...pkc are likw the temperance movement around licensing 

 

 

[blueheaven]

3 minutes ago, MySpazz said:

So negative 

That would mean, jobs for adults, paid a higher wage, more taxes, more jobs ....youngsters moved to separate place selling pies etc.

 

More jobs. Not less.

Investment, new busines, enhanced offer

If you're anticipating there being different kiosks for food and alcohol, I'm not sure where the space for that would come from, or what the appeal would be of having to join two different queues to get food and a drink.

And yes more jobs for adults is a good thing, but weekend jobs for younger people looking to earn some money for the first time is a good thing too.

 

[blueheaven]

52 minutes ago, Gekko said:

Totally agree with this.

I remember the Tulloch Institute had fan zones in their car park during the European games.

I wasn't there, but there are plenty of photographs and stories from people who were. They seemed to popular and well attended.

I went to the one before the Luzern game, and also Sportsters (as it was then) put on a brilliant fanzone before the Eses game. The club just didn't seem bothered about trying to organise anything for those games that would have seen people spending their money at McDiarmid instead of at these other places.

Hopefully they'll be much more on the ball with this kind of thing for next season's European games! 😁

[PerthSaint01]

I presume it’s actually quite difficult to get a license for selling alcohol outside the ground.

I’m sure Aberdeen were rejected or withdrew an application recently. I’d think that’s maybe more along the thinking of Webb and co.

Celtic have a hospitality option that’s literally a lounge but because it’s within the concourse you can buy alcohol, and you get pies etc at half time. I’m sure that would be an option open to Saints if they had the space.

[garydavidson]

2 hours ago, Gekko said:

One more thing, remember when that young lass was attacked by Celtic fans in the North Stand when she was working at the kiosk? She was only 14.

Can you imagine how worse it would be if they were all getting tanked up during the game?

I like a beer as much as anybody, but it's a no from me during the game.

I thought there was a subtle hint in Mr Webb's statement when he said there were "a couple of exemptions". They wouldn't sell to old form fans or at old form games I imagine.

[KinrossSaint]

1 hour ago, MySpazz said:

So negative 

That would mean, jobs for adults, paid a higher wage, more taxes, more jobs ....youngsters moved to separate place selling pies etc.

 

More jobs. Not less.

Investment, new busines, enhanced offer

I couldn’t agree more with this. Adam and the board are clearly looking to make our club Modern, efficient and profitable! 

easy to be short sighted, but it’s all about growth, easier to do off the pitch than on… 

[sjfc99]

2 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I imagine that if it happens, people will only be allowed to drink beer in the concourses, so fortunately there shouldn't be much chance of people chucking it around in the seated areas during games.

This was what I was told when I asked about those ridiculous double doors in the main stand kiosk and if they could be kept open 

[MySpazz]

1 hour ago, blueheaven said:

If you're anticipating there being different kiosks for food and alcohol, I'm not sure where the space for that would come from, or what the appeal would be of having to join two different queues to get food and a drink.

And yes more jobs for adults is a good thing, but weekend jobs for younger people looking to earn some money for the first time is a good thing too.

 

You picked up on young people being out of a job. That was your line.

But that's the wrong way around thinking—you create jobs by innovating and expanding a business. That's what Webb is attempting. And with that comes more money spent by those people having earned a bigger wage than the youth. The youth are just that. Their time for work will come. And to that end, it could be argued that the stewarding goes back to paid locals and volunteers with the correct credentials, then hired stewards for the "big" games.

 

[Gekko]

2 hours ago, MySpazz said:

You ever tried counselling....honestly,  "warzone"

The level of catastrophization on here is jump the shark territory 

If beer is sold its sure to be tightly managed and regulated...pkc are likw the temperance movement around licensing 

 

 

I stand by the phrasing. I had to swerve round fighting mobs, and had goodness knows what chucked over me that they were aiming at each other. Genuinely scary stuff.

I also lived in deepest, darkest Dundee for over a decade, so I'll claim to know what I'm talking about. And before anybody starts, I love Dundee, and had a great time living there, great people too, but you have to know your way around. There are great bits, and there are places you just wouldn't want to walk into. I have stories that would make your eyes water. I've never lived there but I'm sure Glasgow's the same.

The same people who cause the problems in these places can easily travel to McDiarmid and cause them at the stadium.

Fuelling them with alcohol to do so makes no sense to me.

ETA: I was driving around what seemed to be a very dodgy part of Glasgow, fairly near Celtic Park for those in the know, and just like Dundee, I have no problem with it. I'm just saying what I experienced. A dog was attacking my hubcaps.

Edited February 6 by Gekko

[Gekko]

2 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I went to the one before the Luzern game, and also Sportsters (as it was then) put on a brilliant fanzone before the Eses game. The club just didn't seem bothered about trying to organise anything for those games that would have seen people spending their money at McDiarmid instead of at these other places.

Hopefully they'll be much more on the ball with this kind of thing for next season's European games! 😁

I would imagine Webb would be all over this, if, and hopefully when, we get ourselves in a position to host these events.

As has been mentioned though, I would guess getting the licence would be problematic. The council haven't exactly been in our favour over the years.

[sane_tee]

53 minutes ago, garydavidson said:

I thought there was a subtle hint in Mr Webb's statement when he said there were "a couple of exemptions". They wouldn't sell to old form fans or at old form games I imagine.

That's the impression I got from him - there would be exceptions.

The selling of alcohol during a football game is such an unknown quantity for me that I didn't know it would only be allowed in the concourse. Not much space under the seats at McD, so I think it would need to be done in specific areas.

I really like the idea of a fan zone outside. Unfortunately, the weather could impact this on many occasions, but a marquee would fix that. And an adjacent kids zone would also be required. So if they set up on the astro for example, perhaps a few mini-pitches would keep the kids happy, craft tables. It all just starts to grow arms and legs though.

[Dooj]

Is it up to the council to decide on whether the club can sell alcohol or not? I thought this was a legislative thing - that would need changing first and I dont think there is really a will amongst the general public to push that through.

I actually think that Adam Webb may be extrapolating too much from his experience of American sports - yes, you can get a beer in your seat but not only are beers ridiculously expensive (along with hot dogs and so on) the Americans have a very different relationship with alcohol anyway, and sports crowds in general behave differently. You dont get the same level of confrontation which I reckon is probably down to the far lower numbers of away fans that attend games. Yes, you do get some trouble, but nothing like on the scale that you get in the UK (maybe the fact that the police are armed helps too 🤔😆).

He's absolutely right to be coming with these ideas of how to do thing differently but I would agree that increasing crowds, improving affordability and the quality of the experience is the way to go - fan zones, safe standing areas, t-shirt giveaways, kids competitions, ticket bundles, that sort of thing. 

 

[Mizfit]

Personally I think you ban alcohol from all sports or none. But they won’t do that. 
 

Personally I’d like the choice of having a beer at the ground. I’d likely not have one in winter, but certainly a Summer League cup game I’d be looking for one. 
 

Have the clubs work with the government and build a plan. High risk games get no alcohol, but this Saturdays game could have one you’d imagine with no issues. 

[slf]

33 minutes ago, Mizfit said:

Have the clubs work with the government and build a plan. High risk games get no alcohol, but this Saturdays game could have one you’d imagine with no issues. 

Oh but Saturdays games does have issues extra police are being deployed .

found that out at saints fans forum meeting.

 

hot weather and summer football is the answer will add to crowds

 

[Rafa]

Maybe trial season ticket holders using the Muirton Bar at half time?