Linky Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 It’s not really about “free speech” or even whether he is racist or not. The key issue here is that Robinson is currently under investigation for inciting multiple riots & incidents of violence across the country. People’s lives have been threatened, property destroyed, shops looted. All of which is illegal. To retweet an inflammatory video by someone who is under investigation for orchestrating this illegality when you are a public figure and a role model is not acceptable. People on here are suggesting it’s akin to him tweeting “I think this country has a problem with immigration and needs to get a better handle on it”, or similar. It’s not. He’s absolutely free to have that opinion. He is not free to retweet the views of someone who is under investigation for mass illegality and violence, when those views are allegedly the cause, as it shows potential support for that illegal behaviour and violence. PSJ.84, Blues Brother, saintee in exile and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 Not locking this thread as it's clearly Saints-related and personally I feel it's a completely justifiable for fans to want to discuss this. But please can people try to discuss reasonably with each other and cut out any threatening or abusive language. pezza70, MySpazz, Havana Saint and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cagey Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 4 minutes ago, blueheaven said: Not locking this thread as it's clearly Saints-related and personally I feel it's a completely justifiable for fans to want to discuss this. But please can people try to discuss reasonably with each other and cut out any threatening or abusive language. I think it has gone on long enough and can't end up well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott1982 Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 Aye. tbf, the content of the doc that cammy shared is mostly irrelevant. Its the timing that's f****d him. Giving any support to Tommy the tit atm looks pretty bad. Here a post from a few days ago, trying to spread misinformation about a stabbing in Stirling. Classy act this lot. stevensan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawman Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 I’m quite surprised there’s been no comment from club, given it’s in the papers I thought they’d at least acknowledge they re looking into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMac Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 Saints at their best to be honest, burying their head in the sand. Are they hoping it just goes away.....No f*cking chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 It's widely reported Saints are "investigating" but it's deemed an internal matter that shouldn't be played out in public, which seems the right way to do it legally and professionally. MySpazz, Saintdunc and Cagey 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MySpazz Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 4 hours ago, Linky said: It’s not really about “free speech” or even whether he is racist or not. The key issue here is that Robinson is currently under investigation for inciting multiple riots & incidents of violence across the country. People’s lives have been threatened, property destroyed, shops looted. All of which is illegal. To retweet an inflammatory video by someone who is under investigation for orchestrating this illegality when you are a public figure and a role model is not acceptable. People on here are suggesting it’s akin to him tweeting “I think this country has a problem with immigration and needs to get a better handle on it”, or similar. It’s not. He’s absolutely free to have that opinion. He is not free to retweet the views of someone who is under investigation for mass illegality and violence, when those views are allegedly the cause, as it shows potential support for that illegal behaviour and violence. Can you post a link to the police or other source saying he is under investigation for incitement. Understand One of his tweets got alot of heat. But nothing official. He is - from what I read - to appear in the High Court in September (?) Regarding contempt of court linked to the previous libel case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linky Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 11 minutes ago, MySpazz said: Can you post a link to the police or other source saying he is under investigation for incitement. Understand One of his tweets got alot of heat. But nothing official. He is - from what I read - to appear in the High Court in September (?) Regarding contempt of court linked to the previous libel case Chief constable BJ Harrington, the national lead for public order, told the Guardian a range of criminal offences were being investigated, from those committing violence on the streets, to those alleged to be whipping it up: “We are looking at a whole range of stuff. If we find there are people conspiring to commit violence, we will bring charges. “Social media is playing a large part, we are looking at that,” he said, adding it was being used in the “incitement and encouragement”. He said: “People in foreign countries are putting out disinformation.” Asked if that was a reference to the former EDL leader, Stephen Yaxley-Lennon who uses the name Tommy Robinson, the police chief said: “Tommy Robinson is one among many.” MySpazz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rik2304 Posted August 7, 2024 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 Fannybaws searches his own name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rik2304 Posted August 7, 2024 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/tommy-robinson-st-johnstone-macpherson-33412345 The new owner must be LOVING this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MySpazz Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 22 minutes ago, rik2304 said: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/tommy-robinson-st-johnstone-macpherson-33412345 The new owner must be LOVING this. Agree with you there. This week ought to be a bout Geofff and the new owner. I still don't think the player will have full knowledge and background of what he was getting into by retweeting. He's not broken any laws. The actual documentary (watched it) is very poor - it's basically Robinson going around trying to build a defense and prove that what he said was correct. He does present a good case, but the courts found for the child. Lots of Robinson's evidence was based on covert recordings, they may have been inadmissable. The rest of it is kind of "they are lying to you" stuff and "journalists are not doing their jobs.". Watch it....it already feels out of date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rik2304 Posted August 7, 2024 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 10 minutes ago, MySpazz said: Agree with you there. This week ought to be a bout Geofff and the new owner. I still don't think the player will have full knowledge and background of what he was getting into by retweeting. He's not broken any laws. The actual documentary (watched it) is very poor - it's basically Robinson going around trying to build a defense and prove that what he said was correct. He does present a good case, but the courts found for the child. Lots of Robinson's evidence was based on covert recordings, they may have been inadmissable. The rest of it is kind of "they are lying to you" stuff and "journalists are not doing their jobs.". Watch it....it already feels out of date. I'll not be watching it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linky Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 18 minutes ago, MySpazz said: I still don't think the player will have full knowledge and background of what he was getting into by retweeting. He's not broken any laws. He knows that there are violent riots going on, that buildings and cars have been set alight, people threatened and businesses burnt down. It's front page of every paper. He knows that he's retweeting the views of someone who is, at the very least, connected to these events. It's not coincidence that he retweeted the video at this time. It's not against the law to, say, turn up to work drunk. You'd still get disciplined for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MySpazz Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 6 minutes ago, Linky said: He knows that there are violent riots going on, that buildings and cars have been set alight, people threatened and businesses burnt down. It's front page of every paper. He knows that he's retweeting the views of someone who is, at the very least, connected to these events. It's not coincidence that he retweeted the video at this time. It's not against the law to, say, turn up to work drunk. You'd still get disciplined for it. Cammy may also feel his livelihood is threatened by cheap imported labour (cue everyone say how sh*t a player he is anyway; that's not the point). The levels of immigration are harmful. It'd be the same if these were Aussies or Dutch entering. How do any of us know why he retweeted it - i doubt be watched it. Might have been his bird using his phone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rik2304 Posted August 7, 2024 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 12 minutes ago, PoshBrat said: What if we signed a Muslim player who hates homosexuals I bet you Libtards would defend his right to freedom of speech cos you only attack straight white men No. There would be a very negative reaction to that as well. Any hateful rhetoric would be rightly condemned. blueheaven and PSJ.84 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MySpazz Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 (edited) 1 minute ago, rik2304 said: No. There would be a very negative reaction to that as well. Any hateful rhetoric would be rightly condemned. TBF Robinson's video was not deemed hateful, it was deemed not to be factual. If someone with Christain beliefs said they did not believe in gay marriage or relationships, how would you react? Edited August 7, 2024 by MySpazz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linky Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 7 minutes ago, MySpazz said: Cammy may also feel his livelihood is threatened by cheap imported labour (cue everyone say how sh*t a player he is anyway; that's not the point). The levels of immigration are harmful. It'd be the same if these were Aussies or Dutch entering. How do any of us know why he retweeted it - i doubt be watched it. Might have been his bird using his phone? He may do. He may feel lots of things. What he feels is irrelevant to the fact that he retweeted someone who is currently being investigated for inciting violence. On a side note - what 'cheap imported labour' is coming over to the UK to play for professional football clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rik2304 Posted August 7, 2024 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 2 minutes ago, MySpazz said: TBF Robinson's video was not deemed hateful, it was deemed not to be factual. If someone with Christain beliefs said they did not believe in gay marriage or relationships, how would you react? I was responding to the point raised about a theoretical Muslim player. If a Saints player said that about gay marriage/relationships I would also strongly condemn it. PSJ.84 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linky Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 3 minutes ago, MySpazz said: TBF Robinson's video was not deemed hateful, it was deemed not to be factual. If someone with Christain beliefs said they did not believe in gay marriage or relationships, how would you react? Again, this is irrelevant. The player can believe that immigration is too high, that is absolutely fine. If he tweets: 'I don't agree with this violence, but I can see that immigration is an issue, and I can see what people are frustrated' - absolutely fine. That's an opinion. What is not fine is retweeting a post by someone who is currently under investigation for inciting violent riots, because this looks like he is giving tacit acceptance of the violence or even encouraging it. The Imam Anjem Choudray was charged recently with - among other things - encouraging people to commit violence. If a football player retweeted a video of his, I would absolutely expect them to be disciplined for it. This is no different. PerthSaint01, scott1982, Smarmy Arab and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy rhodes fancy watch Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 4 hours ago, Cagey said: I think it has gone on long enough and can't end up well. You think it has? So is that it like? Do we just stop? Get over yourself. 23 minutes ago, PoshBrat said: What if we signed a Muslim player who hates homosexuals I bet you Libtards would defend his right to freedom of speech cos you only attack straight white men What if? Hypothetical shite. What we do know is Cami is a shite footballer with questionable views on a whole range of subjects. blueheaven 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafa Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 22 minutes ago, MySpazz said: TBF Robinson's video was not deemed hateful, it was deemed not to be factual. If someone with Christain beliefs said they did not believe in gay marriage or relationships, how would you react? Cammy is an idiot for liking that video but peoples reactions are way over the top, people do stupid things all the time especially me, its no big deal. I defend freedom of speech regardless, i belief a Muslim would get away with it but a Christian would get fired. Havana Saint 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rik2304 Posted August 7, 2024 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 2 minutes ago, PoshBrat said: i belief a Muslim would get away with it but a Christian would get fired. What makes you think that? andy rhodes fancy watch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevensan Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 4 minutes ago, MySpazz said: Cammy may also feel his livelihood is threatened by cheap imported labour (cue everyone say how sh*t a player he is anyway; that's not the point). The levels of immigration are harmful. It'd be the same if these were Aussies or Dutch entering. How do any of us know why he retweeted it - i doubt be watched it. Might have been his bird using his phone? I don't want this thread to go off topic, but as your saying things which are simply untrue, I feel I need to confront them. I apologise to everyone for my rant below; So, MySpazz, Could you back up your "livelihood is threatened by cheap imported labour", and "levels of immigration are harmful"? And by backing them up I mean actual statistics, not the racist ramblings of Robinson, Farage, Braverman etc... Here is some stats to get you started though; Wage effect: Numerous reports have found no effect, or only minor effects. Even in the reports where the biggest impact of wages has been seen, the only negative effect has been on jobs in the 5th percentile, with immigration up to 2016 having an effect over 20 years of 0.5p on wages. During that same period the minimum wage was raised by £3.60, so any negative was more than offset by the increase in minimum wages. In all other job classes, the effect of immigration had the opposite effect, increasing the salary levels for local employees. https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration/ Levels of immigration: Higher immigration will maket the country richer... period. Less immigration will cost every person in this country money. This fact is almost universally found in every single study undertaken https://obr.uk/box/net-migration-forecast-and-its-impact-on-the-economy/ Intergration: Don't even attempt this attack line when one of the UK's national foods comes from the sub continent... Coupled to this immigrants tend to integrate more in UK life than locals do (eg, church of england has been propped up by a surging immigrant membership for over 10 years now, as local membership falls). Its no surprise that the areas with riots are the areas with the lowest immigrant populations, whereas the areas with the highest populations of immigrants have seen zero trouble. Ah, but your argument is probably that is all "legal" migration. What about the "illegals". Well, firstly, asylum seekers are not "illegals". It is not illegal to claim asylum (despite what Farage, Braverman etc will have told you). There are some useful stats I would like you to read as they are important to know and also help give some important perspective so we are not simply propagating the wildly inaccurate nonsense the govn and right wing press put out to scapegoat those who cannot speak up for themselves. What the govn are trying to do is deflect attention from their own major mishandling of public money and so many areas in the UK such as the NHS, education and housing to name a few. Do not believe their hype. Know the facts: - Of the 745,000 net migration figure in the year ending June 2022, 45,756 arrived by boat; making up a relatively small number. Similarly, 44,460 migrants arrived by boat in the year ending June 2023. Similar to spousal migration, that is about 6% of all net migration - At the end of 2021 around 89.3 million people were forcibly displaced across the world. Of these, 27.1 million were refugees, while 53.2 million were internally displaced within their country of origin - The UK is home to approx. 1% - yes ONE %] of the 27.1 million refugees who were forcibly displaced across the world. - Developing countries – not the UK – look after most of the world's refugees. 72% of the world’s refugees are living in countries neighbouring their country of origin, often in developing countries. - 41% of displaced people across the world are children – they make up almost HALF the refugees and asylum seekers - The UK asylum system is strictly controlled and complex. It is very difficult for people seeking asylum to provide the evidence required to be granted protection. Despite these challenges, the majority of asylum claims are successful. In the year ending June 2022, 76% of initial decisions resulted in a grant of asylum or other form of protection. - The Home Office can take months or even years to make a decision on asylum case, and there is a growing backlog of cases. At the end of June 2022, there were over 117,000 people awaiting an initial decision on their asylum case. - Since 2005 most people recognised as refugees are only given permission to stay in the UK for five years. This makes it difficult for them to make decisions about their future, to find work and make definite plans for their life in the UK. - Almost all people seeking asylum are not allowed to work and are forced to rely on state support—this is as little as £6.43 a day to live on.Can you begin to imagine surviving on that? - When refugees and asylum seekers are finally able to work most will want to work and contribute to society and a better future for them and their families. As we all do I have actual lived experience of a vile immigration system that has continually scapegoated immigrants across the board, and continues to allow the spread their hate, misinformation and blame. I sat in an immigration tribunal as they told my children that they had no right to live with their mother. They could have a parental relationship over Skype. The UK government spent more than £50,000 of YOUR tax money trying to deprive my British children of the right to live with their mother. That mother, having won her right to live here, has founded three companies which employ over 100 people in Scotland at an average salary level of over £40,000/person and have brought in over £10 million of inward investment into Scotland. If we hadn't been able to spend money to fight system we would have been another statistic of a family separated by the inhuman immigration laws and 100 Scottish citizens wouldn't have a job as a result. Don’t fall for the governments PR – THEY are to blame for our woes and the destruction of our services. Not someone arriving here ‘on a boat’ desperate for a place where they can find safety in a country they believe is humane and democratic. They are humans too - never lose sight of that. glenrothes saintee, lindz105, Blues Brother and 20 others 17 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havana Saint Posted August 7, 2024 Report Share Posted August 7, 2024 The club needs to take firm and decisive action here. His act was appalling. "Show racism the red card" is purely symbolic and counts for nothing if we don't stand up to racists. We need to passionately show that we are an Anti Racist club. The standard you walk past is the standard you accept ....think about this St Johnstone. rik2304, Jimmy Wallace and blueheaven 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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