The Road Ahead!

[RandomGuy]

18 minutes ago, Graeme S said:

Not taking issue with Tommy, the most successful manager in the club's history. He fitted well at Saints, not so much at Killie and paid the price for short termism (if that's a word) 

Yes, he signed a lot of diddies and sh*tebags, and, as you say, was bailed out by players that had been there for a decade - the point being that he HAD players that had been there for a decade, and were there because they were happy and wanted to be there, but the simple fact that he actually had backup is more than what we have currently, and have had for a while. 

It just seemed better organised, we had backups and sometimes backups to backups, all, apparently done on a shoestring. Interesting that organisation seemed to disappear when he left - another sign of what he was doing behind the scenes? I genuinely don't know. 

Tommy Wright is likely the best manager I'll ever see Saints have, but there's absolutely no benefit to comparing every single manager we have to him and pointing out all their flaws compared to him, as if he was some flawless being who constantly had us fighting tooth and nail in every single match because it simply isn't true.

Edited May 15 by RandomGuy

[Gekko]

Most people have already said what I was going to say. Graeme's detailed post above captures most of it.

We all know who the culprits are for this, but all of this was so avoidable.

Even as recently as a few weeks ago. Results against Motherwell and Kilmarnock would change everything. So the current crop are not devoid of blame.

We can't keep sacking managers so I believe we should stick with Simo, for now. With the proviso that if by October time, it's obviously not working, he's shown the door.

We need to start off strongly next season and lead from the front.

It's a whole new mindset now. For the first time in years, we're the big team, and should be winning each week.

A big problem I have with Simo is that I believe he overthinks it. I know it's sometimes out of necessity, but why so much chopping and changing?

We had a winning formula on Saturday, so why the change players and formation to the extent he did?

I know Uche probably couldn't play from the start again, was Sven injured? We don't know because nobody asks the manager these questions after the game. I wish the media would actually try and find these things out. Whether that's our own in house team or the nationals. Ask him why he changed shape. Why some players dropped out etc.

When we've had success in the past, it's always been based on a settled line up. If you can remember, think of Totten's line up when we were tearing up that league. You knew each week what players were going to start and in what position.

Sturrock was the same, even the double winning side was predictable and ultimately successful.

Also, all of these teams had players that knew the league. I'm not against a decent overseas player, but a whole team of them seems to be a bad idea.

Muzz was right in his BBC interview, we lost players and replaced them with lesser ones.

At least we'll now be getting rid of a whole bunch of overpaid and underperforming players.

We need a settled core squad that will take us forward.

We need the whole club to change it's mindset and get a winning mentality and start thinking big.

We need a manager who not only stays, but completely rebuilds the squad from scratch.

It's a big job, but it needs to be done quickly.

The time to start is now.

[Cagey]

1 hour ago, Ritspeed said:

Now the boil has been lanced I am feeling relaxed and optimistic, and, after reading Valakari's post match comments, even a bit encouraged.  Maybe relegation is a necessary part of the rebuild and a break from the recent past.  Unlike some forum members I believe Simo is the manager to construct the rebuild.  He will study the Championship and be well aware what is required to get out of it.

Encouraged by his post match comments ?. The man is a bullshittter.

 

[GOB10]

Just now, Cagey said:

Encouraged by his post match comments ?. The man is a bullshittter.

 

Haha i honestly dont understand why people dont see this. They obviously like him as a person so give him more wiggling room.. but ultimately hes been poor

[Cagey]

2 hours ago, Graeme S said:

Don't think we can look ahead without understanding where we came from and learning from our mistakes. The utter, utter mismanagement of the club over the last 10+ years is astonishing and I personally will never forgive the Davidson's, Flaherty's, Grieve's, Levein's and Bairn Broon's that got us to this place. Almost every player brought in since 2019 has been a downgrade of what's gone before. Ask yourself if the worst Tommy Wright team could beat a Davidson, MacLean, Levein or Valakari best team and the answer is invariably yes. 

Off the field has been a shambles as well, the Sandford/Dailly "deal" springs to mind, and was there not a sponsorship deal that wound up costing the club money? Mismanagement 101. 

Now there is a generation of the fanbase who have only ever known Premier League football, and the odd "away day" at Brechin, Forfar, Ayr, Stranraer, Dumbarton, Morton, etc was seen as a bit different and fun. From someone who was watching Saints when we were the 30th team of 38 in Scottish football, it wasn't FUN playing in broken down grounds (and I include Muirton latterly) in p*ssing rain on a cold, dark Wednesday night. 

I think this is a misplaced view which the club has also bought into - "a season in the lower league will be fun, we'll enjoy winning every week and it'll be a reset". Inverness, Hamilton, Hibs, Rainjurs, Falkirk, and Livi (so far) and many other clubs took more than one attempt to get out of the Championship. United this season were the exception, not the rule. 

At my age, I've no inclination to watch games played in broken down stadiums with crappy pitches (again, include McDiarmid) and centre halves with broken noses, tattoos and the striker's b*locks in his fist at corner kicks. It's not pretty, it's not attractive football (generally) and positively not FUN. 

I think we, as a club and as a fanbase, are in for a rude awakening, if Simo couldn't get his first choices in January because of our league position, is the choice going to be any better in the summer? 

I remember being at Clydebank under Sturrock, with photocopied programmes, and Sloop was actually standing on the terracing coaching on the team and there was no fans within 50 feet of him (yes, ref stopped game and ordered him back to the dugout).

I hope everyone else is right and I'm wrong - I hope Simo's the guy, I hope there's a fantastic "rebuild", I hope we bounce straight back up, and I hope it is FUN. But, most of all, I never want to see a period of mismanagement the likes of which has brought us to this sad point, ever again. 

Onwards and upwards, bring on the fun and entertainment then. 

 

Mismanagement of the team over the past 10 years ?. Were we not lauded as a well run club with £2 million in he bank ? 😂.

Frittered away over the last few years mind you.

[Mizfit]

2 minutes ago, Cagey said:

Mismanagement of the team over the past 10 years ?. Were we not lauded as a well run club with £2 million in he bank ? 😂.

Frittered away over the last few years mind you.

We were never well run, it was a media tale which the club was happy to run with. 

Our former chair moaned about European football and didn’t capitalise on the 2014 cup run. 

Our owner stopped paying attention and let his son do what he wanted, his son refused to modernise the club when Tommy Wright was begging for it. He then tried to run during lockdown and moaned about having to stay because Tommy beat him to it. 
 

He then gave Callum nothing to work with in his first season, yet we win the double. He again failed to capitalise on it. 
 

We then try to modernise, but got scared and went back to the old ways. 
 

He then appoints Maclean to succeed Davidson on a 3 year deal and leaves, his dad then pushes Levein down our throat and then wouldn’t sack him out of fear. 
 

This doesn’t even factor in the shit we’ve signed or had to put up with. 

There is some failure from Simo yes, but he’s effectively turned up to a house fire with no water and a bottle of vodka to fight it. 

[Saintdunc]

32 minutes ago, Mizfit said:

We were never well run, it was a media tale which the club was happy to run with. 

Our former chair moaned about European football and didn’t capitalise on the 2014 cup run. 

Our owner stopped paying attention and let his son do what he wanted, his son refused to modernise the club when Tommy Wright was begging for it. He then tried to run during lockdown and moaned about having to stay because Tommy beat him to it. 
 

He then gave Callum nothing to work with in his first season, yet we win the double. He again failed to capitalise on it. 
 

We then try to modernise, but got scared and went back to the old ways. 
 

He then appoints Maclean to succeed Davidson on a 3 year deal and leaves, his dad then pushes Levein down our throat and then wouldn’t sack him out of fear. 
 

This doesn’t even factor in the shit we’ve signed or had to put up with. 

There is some failure from Simo yes, but he’s effectively turned up to a house fire with no water and a bottle of vodka to fight it. 

Exactly wot 'e said!

Brilliant post.

[Gekko]

44 minutes ago, Mizfit said:

We were never well run, it was a media tale which the club was happy to run with. 

Our former chair moaned about European football and didn’t capitalise on the 2014 cup run. 

Our owner stopped paying attention and let his son do what he wanted, his son refused to modernise the club when Tommy Wright was begging for it. He then tried to run during lockdown and moaned about having to stay because Tommy beat him to it. 
 

He then gave Callum nothing to work with in his first season, yet we win the double. He again failed to capitalise on it. 
 

We then try to modernise, but got scared and went back to the old ways. 
 

He then appoints Maclean to succeed Davidson on a 3 year deal and leaves, his dad then pushes Levein down our throat and then wouldn’t sack him out of fear. 
 

This doesn’t even factor in the shit we’ve signed or had to put up with. 

There is some failure from Simo yes, but he’s effectively turned up to a house fire with no water and a bottle of vodka to fight it. 

100% agree with everything above. Young Brown had every advantage put in front of him and never took up any of them.

I'll never forget the night we beat Inverness to secure our European place.

I was listening to SportSound, and Richard Gordon interviewed Steve Brown.

You could hear the whole place going crazy in the background. Then the chairman goes on and he couldn't have been more miserable.

Instead of saying what a great achievement it had been, and how excited he was for the future adventures, he just moaned about the price of airfares and accommodation, and how much of a hassle the whole thing was going to be in general.

Richard Gordon said after the interview, "Well, I thought I was going to congratulate him, but by the end I wanted to commiserate him."

Steve Brown never got it. He only cared about numbers and spreadsheets and didn't understand the emotion that makes up a football club. He never cared like we do. That was the start of the long decline.

[Mizfit]

2 minutes ago, Gekko said:

100% agree with everything above. Young Brown had every advantage put in front of him and never took up any of them.

I'll never forget the night we beat Inverness to secure our European place.

I was listening to SportSound, and Richard Gordon interviewed Steve Brown.

You could hear the whole place going crazy in the background. Then the chairman goes on and he couldn't have been more miserable.

Instead of saying what a great achievement it had been, and how excited he was for the future adventures, he just moaned about the price of airfares and accommodation, and how much of a hassle the whole thing was going to be in general.

Richard Gordon said after the interview, "Well, I thought I was going to congratulate him, but by the end I wanted to commiserate him."

Steve Brown never got it. He only cared about numbers and spreadsheets and didn't understand the emotion that makes up a football club. He never cared like we do. That was the start of the long decline.

Yup, should’ve been removed that night as chair for that attitude. That was the moment we let the rot fester. 

[Northern saint]

They have been prepared for this day so let's see some quick action.  

I can't see Simo being relieved of his duties.  

The level of coaching has been terrible for years and they have remained almost intact.  Time for Cleland, Kirk, et all to leave.  Coaches who share Simo's vision are required.  Basic ability to "improve players" is a must.  Maybe Erememko would be a good addition.  While the path without reserve team football is poor our youngsters winning age group leagues are not progressing into the first team.  They all appear to be of a similar size and limited speed.  

Most out of contract players can leave as they showed little appetite to fight for the badge for ninety minutes a game, not five or ten minutes spells.  

Levein's experiment with youngsters like Essel, Crocks has left us what?  Has there been any development in them?  Essel unlikely to play again in a Saints shirt.  

Wright, Bozo back after injury.  

Goalkeeping situation.  I like Sinclair but he needed to get games especially after Fisher's arrival.  

Skill but especially character in recruitment is needed.  Leadership a must.  

New players in as soon as able as they need to have gelled before the league starts.  A style which they are suited to and given a run of games rather than three or four changes a game.  

[Graeme S]

I don't know if my logic/thinking here is correct - may be selective history: Saints aren't the only club with its share of gutless sh*tebags. I can't help but feel that a lot of it is down to the movement of players. 

As has been pointed out by a few today, we had players here for a decade, generally because they liked it here, as a result, they became invested in the club and, as a result, fought for the badge. 

In recent times, with agents keen for cash, players rarely stay at clubs any longer than a couple of years, thus don't develop the affinity and attachment to the club (this isn't just Saints). Gone are the days of a player getting a testimonial or breaking the club appearance record. 

Sven benefitted with most because he appears to want to be here, took to the fans quickly, and is a battler, but he's the exception, not the rule. 

Another exception is home grown players who come through the ranks and "get" the club, although the current trend appears to be for English clubs to poach these youngsters early to fulfil their quotas. 

I'm not sure (in general, and Saints in particular) if a lot of the "punts" that were brought in (Essel, Raymond, Sidibeh, Kimpioka etc) were brought in because they were cheap or because this is a business model - buy cheap punts in the hope that one turns out to be Messi or Ronaldo etc and makes you millions. 

The one thing I do know is that it's not good for Scottish youngsters and it's not good for the Scottish game from a fan perspective - fans want their players to be good, exciting, but most of all, to have the same passion for the club that they do. How many of the punts had even heard of Saints before Levein etc turned up on their doorstep with a Tesco bag of cash? - The Lambie model, don't know if it's still current 😂

So, if we want heart and passion for our club, I think it has to be grown and nurtured, not bought. 

[pezza70]

I think if we get the right balance of youngsters and some hard nose FA’s who are up for the fight in the championship then we should still be an attractive destination for players looking to get to the SPL, I presume our wages will be decent still in the championship.

Let’s hope they are on the job as of today looking for players.

[Dav69]

1 hour ago, Gekko said:

100% agree with everything above. Young Brown had every advantage put in front of him and never took up any of them.

I'll never forget the night we beat Inverness to secure our European place.

I was listening to SportSound, and Richard Gordon interviewed Steve Brown.

You could hear the whole place going crazy in the background. Then the chairman goes on and he couldn't have been more miserable.

Instead of saying what a great achievement it had been, and how excited he was for the future adventures, he just moaned about the price of airfares and accommodation, and how much of a hassle the whole thing was going to be in general.

Richard Gordon said after the interview, "Well, I thought I was going to congratulate him, but by the end I wanted to commiserate him."

Steve Brown never got it. He only cared about numbers and spreadsheets and didn't understand the emotion that makes up a football club. He never cared like we do. That was the start of the long decline.

I love this million percent true post 

[MySpazz]

Way ahead. Thank Simo on Sunday and appoint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Kettlewell / has won the championship / can manage higher / is available

Edited May 15 by MySpazz

[CAH]

15 minutes ago, MySpazz said:

Way ahead. Thank Simo on Sunday and appoint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Kettlewell / has won the championship / can manage higher / is available

Is Jack Ross still around?

[Kat71]

5 hours ago, Graeme S said:

Don't think we can look ahead without understanding where we came from and learning from our mistakes. The utter, utter mismanagement of the club over the last 10+ years is astonishing and I personally will never forgive the Davidson's, Flaherty's, Grieve's, Levein's and Bairn Broon's that got us to this place. Almost every player brought in since 2019 has been a downgrade of what's gone before. Ask yourself if the worst Tommy Wright team could beat a Davidson, MacLean, Levein or Valakari best team and the answer is invariably yes. 

Off the field has been a shambles as well, the Sandford/Dailly "deal" springs to mind, and was there not a sponsorship deal that wound up costing the club money? Mismanagement 101. 

Now there is a generation of the fanbase who have only ever known Premier League football, and the odd "away day" at Brechin, Forfar, Ayr, Stranraer, Dumbarton, Morton, etc was seen as a bit different and fun. From someone who was watching Saints when we were the 30th team of 38 in Scottish football, it wasn't FUN playing in broken down grounds (and I include Muirton latterly) in p*ssing rain on a cold, dark Wednesday night. 

I think this is a misplaced view which the club has also bought into - "a season in the lower league will be fun, we'll enjoy winning every week and it'll be a reset". Inverness, Hamilton, Hibs, Rainjurs, Falkirk, and Livi (so far) and many other clubs took more than one attempt to get out of the Championship. United this season were the exception, not the rule. 

At my age, I've no inclination to watch games played in broken down stadiums with crappy pitches (again, include McDiarmid) and centre halves with broken noses, tattoos and the striker's b*locks in his fist at corner kicks. It's not pretty, it's not attractive football (generally) and positively not FUN. 

I think we, as a club and as a fanbase, are in for a rude awakening, if Simo couldn't get his first choices in January because of our league position, is the choice going to be any better in the summer? 

I remember being at Clydebank under Sturrock, with photocopied programmes, and Sloop was actually standing on the terracing coaching on the team and there was no fans within 50 feet of him (yes, ref stopped game and ordered him back to the dugout).

I hope everyone else is right and I'm wrong - I hope Simo's the guy, I hope there's a fantastic "rebuild", I hope we bounce straight back up, and I hope it is FUN. But, most of all, I never want to see a period of mismanagement the likes of which has brought us to this sad point, ever again. 

Onwards and upwards, bring on the fun and entertainment then. 

 

You missed one person who is also responsible for the demise over the last few years. The man that ‘saved us’ all those years ago, Geoff was still the owner and could have stepped in to stop his son from destroying the club.

[GMac]

Wonder how this season would have been if Martindale had agreed to join us?

[RandomGuy]

6 minutes ago, Kat71 said:

You missed one person who is also responsible for the demise over the last few years. The man that ‘saved us’ all those years ago, Geoff was still the owner and could have stepped in to stop his son from destroying the club.

He did. He hired Craig Levein after meeting him at a game, and then made sure he remained our manager for this Summer window even though he knew the club was being sold.

[Saintdunc]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

He did. He hired Craig Levein after meeting him at a game, and then made sure he remained our manager for this Summer window even though he knew the club was being sold.

Ah yes, is that the legend that remains your profile pic?

[RandomGuy]

5 minutes ago, Saintdunc said:

Ah yes, is that the legend that remains your profile pic?

Geoff Brown is a legend who rebuilt the entire club and saved it from being a Clyde-esque shambles.

He absolutely did step in when he saw Steve throwing it all away though, which was being contested.

[CAH]

MESSAGE FROM THE OWNER IS ON THE SAINTS WEBSITE NOW !!!!

 

For discussion???????

[Graeme S]

To all Saints supporters,

Relegation is never in the plans for a football club, and it certainly wasn’t part of our plan for St Johnstone. 

But, as heartbreaking as this is, we will dust ourselves off and go again.  And I am referring to ALL of us. We will need your support next season more than ever before.  If we have your support, we will restart our winning tradition.

First and foremost, we will back Simo. We have a visionary coach and a solid core group of players who will be staying with us for next season.

Simo is just getting started on the project to return St Johnstone to its glory days. We have seen Simo’s tireless work ethic, as well as his aspirations and passion for our club.

Our coaches and players need the same enthusiastic support next season you provided this year. The Scottish Championship is gritty and challenging - and the team will need the boost that vocal supporters provide. 

We need to fill McDiarmid and the away ends when we travel to fuel a quick return to the Premiership. This is not the time to slacken in our resolve.

We are working tirelessly every day to improve your club.  You have seen some of the results this season, such as more transparent fan engagement and the new scoreboard. You will soon see other upgrades, such as our new website, a lift at the stadium, the downtown shop and a fan zone before more home games. 

Simo also told us the number one thing we can do to improve player performance is to replace our existing all-weather pitch, so you will see that done this summer. Our goal always as owners is to provide our coaches and players with the tools they need to win.

What can you do? Our budgeting shows that our club will lose nearly £2 million in revenue next season as compared to our Premiership cashflows. 

This is simply the natural order when a club drops from the Premiership, especially when it intends to prioritise a quick return. Thus, we absolutely need you to do whatever you can to support our club, such as buy an early bird season ticket package before June 18. Encourage friends and family members to do the same. 

Visit our downtown shop on High Street in Perth when it opens and buy our new kit when it arrives. And I will see you at our first league cup game in July. With your support, we go again, and we win.

Thank you for your support this season.  You deserved much better.  We will never take your support for granted and are well aware that our standards must be higher in the seasons to come. We embrace this challenge. 

But we are not foolish enough to think we can do it without you. If you will have faith in us, and back Simo and the lads, you will be rewarded.

And so, after 140 years, we all carry on the sacred trust of St Johnstone and we go again. Come on you Saints!

Adam Webb

[Mizfit]

Birthday Caird Pish.

[john.w]

Wonder where the solid core are, can’t be a big list

[CAH]

3 minutes ago, Graeme S said:

To all Saints supporters,

Relegation is never in the plans for a football club, and it certainly wasn’t part of our plan for St Johnstone. 

But, as heartbreaking as this is, we will dust ourselves off and go again.  And I am referring to ALL of us. We will need your support next season more than ever before.  If we have your support, we will restart our winning tradition.

First and foremost, we will back Simo. We have a visionary coach and a solid core group of players who will be staying with us for next season.

Simo is just getting started on the project to return St Johnstone to its glory days. We have seen Simo’s tireless work ethic, as well as his aspirations and passion for our club.

Our coaches and players need the same enthusiastic support next season you provided this year. The Scottish Championship is gritty and challenging - and the team will need the boost that vocal supporters provide. 

We need to fill McDiarmid and the away ends when we travel to fuel a quick return to the Premiership. This is not the time to slacken in our resolve.

We are working tirelessly every day to improve your club.  You have seen some of the results this season, such as more transparent fan engagement and the new scoreboard. You will soon see other upgrades, such as our new website, a lift at the stadium, the downtown shop and a fan zone before more home games. 

Simo also told us the number one thing we can do to improve player performance is to replace our existing all-weather pitch, so you will see that done this summer. Our goal always as owners is to provide our coaches and players with the tools they need to win.

What can you do? Our budgeting shows that our club will lose nearly £2 million in revenue next season as compared to our Premiership cashflows. 

This is simply the natural order when a club drops from the Premiership, especially when it intends to prioritise a quick return. Thus, we absolutely need you to do whatever you can to support our club, such as buy an early bird season ticket package before June 18. Encourage friends and family members to do the same. 

Visit our downtown shop on High Street in Perth when it opens and buy our new kit when it arrives. And I will see you at our first league cup game in July. With your support, we go again, and we win.

Thank you for your support this season.  You deserved much better.  We will never take your support for granted and are well aware that our standards must be higher in the seasons to come. We embrace this challenge. 

But we are not foolish enough to think we can do it without you. If you will have faith in us, and back Simo and the lads, you will be rewarded.

And so, after 140 years, we all carry on the sacred trust of St Johnstone and we go again. Come on you Saints!

Adam Webb

 

That's us telt then!

Visionary coach & solid core group of players ?????????

Get yer early bird season ticket!

Back Simo and the lads!

EVERYTHINGS SORTED - YIPPEE!