Saline Saint Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Seems daft and a more than a bit negative but a defeat may be the trigger for better performances.This record thing could be starting to be the proverbial Albatross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saline Saint Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 I think the abuse sammy and swankie get is pre-empted by some folk at home like as soon as they don't produce some magic when they have the ball they get pelters for it Do folk honestly pre-match decide which player is getting it today?if that's true its pretty sad that they have nothing better to do with their time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cagey Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Ghostie that sounds like your saying "Oh the indignation .... It's none of the fans fault" I think Swankie personally is a wide forward in a 4-3-3 and of course that means when we lose the ball he is a blocker of space not so much a defending/midfield tackler. Yes he lost out a few challenges but that's not the main bit of his game. He is a receiver and creative offensive player but looked as if he lost confidence as the stressed out fans passed their stress onto the field, after all we've not lost in 18 games ...... oh terrible! He really has to show strength and be a bit arrogant and just ignore the fans, many who have paid to get in and be greetin faced bawheeds (totally legal). By the way I never noticed John Connolly or Alan Moore or Henry Hall or Miguel Simao or Jimmy Johnstone or Eddie Gray or Davie Cooper or Pat Nevin etc. making lots of tackles. Why? because that wasn't their primary role and if it came to a collision with another player (defender/midfielder they normally lost out. You have to ask yourself is there any place left for that type of player today. Ronaldo doesn't tackle much either I suppose. Anyway after a few thoughts here are two teams you might prefer for next week - Team 1 Main, McCaffrey, Anderson, Rutkiewicz, Irvine ,Samuel, Craig, Hardie, Millar, Peaso, Milne Team 2 Main, Irvine, Anderson, McCaffrey, Craig, Millar, Hardie, Sheerin, Jackson, Holmes, Milne A lot better teams! St.Johnstone have had three defeats this season, fantastic by all accounts. However these two teams above were the teams in two of these defeats. Team 1 was thrashed by Partick Thistle 4-0 (our biggest defeat of the season) and Team 2 was embarrassingly beaten at home by Clyde. The 3rd defeat was 3-0 by Dunfermline at home and Swankie was on until it was 1-0 down, so it got worse after he went off. In other words Swankie has only been involved in one league defeat this season and even then he was taken off at half-time when 1-0 down. He came back on the 13th Sept. and in his next six games involvement he was in six wins, the start of our long run. He has been part of that long unbeaten run as a starter or on the bench. I don`t think I saw any of these guys shirk a tackle. Nor have Pele Ronaldiho Henry Kaka .The list goes on. The only other player I have seen shirk a tackle as much as Swankie was Wullie McLaren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjfc_camo Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Make one mistake and quite a few fans will get on there backs but if swankie scored yesterday most people would have put him as a saviour. if we have swankie playing we either need to put him behind a striker or have another winger on the pitch as this is when hes most effective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintj Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 well some get encouragement if they do something bad whereas some just get dogs abuse, I think because sammy and swankie have a bit of magic in them they will always be prime targets if it's not happening for them, jase even got dogs abuse on occasion and he was magic for us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintj Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Make one mistake and quite a few fans will get on there backs but if swankie scored yesterday most people would have put him as a saviour. if we have swankie playing we either need to put him behind a striker or have another winger on the pitch as this is when hes most effective If he had scored it would have done him the world of good, but I very much doubt he would get much praise for it, I've always thought he could play behind the striker/s as a free roaming midfielder more so than an out and out winger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Swankie was rotten today, no positional sense (always right on the line) poor passing, Scared to take a man on, pussied out of every tackle. Goes back to the old debate about heart & talent - If he put the effort in, people would not get on his back. But he doesnt and thats what gets people annoyed Surely that's where Swankie should be - right on the line, receiving the ball and trying to get to the byline? Fair enough he should be taking full backs on, but a) if he did, and got tackled, he'd get the usual dog's abuse from the stands for losing the ball, and the ball moves so slowly around the midfield, by the time it gets out to Swankie he has the wide midfielder and full back, both back in position, to contend with! Maybe if Irvine offered an overlap occasionally he might stand a chance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 swankie's a wee poof. not got enough balls/effort/determination to be a decent player. i honestly think the guy is scared to get dirty or mess his hair up. Yet you eulogise about Willie McLaren, who was the biggest shirker of challenges/headers I've ever seen in a Saints shirt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broon Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Saints fans show blatant favouritism towards certain players. Yesterday was a prime example. Miller was terrible - far far worse than Swankie yet is a hero amongst Saints fans. At least Swankie got on the ball. Saints fans have to realise that not every player has the same body language. Sammy and Scotland have been abused for being lazy. As has Swankie. Just because they don't run about like an idiot like Savo doesn't mean they are lazy. These players do their work ON the ball. You need a mix of all types in a successful team. If 'lazy looking' players were so bad, why is guys like Berbatov and Anelka playing at the very top of the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Jings, some amount of keich on this forum last night. This nonsense of "I pay his wages, so I'll shout what I want" is just bollocks. It causes me to ponder how many of these forumers are successful managers in some capacity. Could we get a new laughing smiley, doesn't really do this justice. Swankie was baws, and IMO most of the shouting was fair enough. Saying that at least he was on the ball, which is more than you can say for the ghostly Paul Sheerin who did absoultely nothing, along with Mr Millar ( goal pass excepted). I've said before Millar is not a right mid, but he actually played a lot better there than he did in the centre. Has Peaso actually been winching Mrs McInnes? Savo was completely off the pace and nowhere near fit, and he still gets in ahead of him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Saint Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Could we get a new laughing smiley, doesn't really do this justice. Swankie was baws, and IMO most of the shouting was fair enough. Saying that at least he was on the ball, which is more than you can say for the ghostly Paul Sheerin who did absoultely nothing, along with Mr Millar ( goal pass excepted). I've said before Millar is not a right mid, but he actually played a lot better there than he did in the centre. You're missing the point sunshine. Nobody said he played well. Has Peaso actually been winching Mrs McInnes? Savo was completely off the pace and nowhere near fit, and he still gets in ahead of him! Nope, Del simply cocked up the team selection. There, that feels better:wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 You're missing the point sunshine. Nobody said he played well. I wasn't laughing at your Swankie point, it was your delightful armchair managers outrage. I'll express myself more fully: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Saint Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Ah, but my (commercial) managerial record is very good! My point was not about football managers; just general managers, motivational experts, people people etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 I don`t think I saw any of these guys shirk a tackle. Nor have Pele Ronaldiho Henry Kaka .The list goes on. I don't remember these players making tackles other than Kaka who plays in the middle of midfield where it's expected. I'll be watching Man. Utd. later today and expect players like Fletcher, Scholes etc. to be making the tackes but not so much Ronaldo who will block space and stick his leg out to get the ball to stop players if he can - not so much tackles. It's quite interesting that when Swankie went off, one of the other moaned at players, Samuel, came on to score and get us a result. while last week it was Swankie (and Jacko) that came on at 2-0 down and got us a result. Great Del substitutions? Sign of a good squad? but are the fans saying Del's acquisitions of Samuel and Swankie were wrong? or are some of the fans shirkers that aren't coping with the stress of being top of the league? It's a mystery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE LARK SAINT Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 I don't remember these players making tackles other than Kaka who plays in the middle of midfield where it's expected. I'll be watching Man. Utd. later today and expect players like Fletcher, Scholes etc. to be making the tackes but not so much Ronaldo who will block space and stick his leg out to get the ball to stop players if he can - not so much tackles. It's quite interesting that when Swankie went off, one of the other moaned at players, Samuel, came on to score and get us a result. while last week it was Swankie (and Jacko) that came on at 2-0 down and got us a result. Great Del substitutions? Sign of a good squad? but are the fans saying Del's acquisitions of Samuel and Swankie were wrong? or are some of the fans shirkers that aren't coping with the stress of being top of the league? It's a mystery. i am not asking players like swankie to go flying into tackles, bur what i do expect from any player in a saints shirt is the ability and desire to go for balls that are 80/20 in his favour and not shirk out like mr swankie did on more than one occasion yesterday, this is what frustrates me. on a footnote to some comments on here, i for one dont sit before a game "mmmmm who am i going to abuse today?" but when after 40 /50 minutes if a player has continually backed away from 80/20. 60/ 40 balls in his favour im not going to sit there and think ach well he will win the next ball, it would be less annoying if in that time he was getting down the wing ,beating men and getting crosses in, but alas!!! a dundee fan i know warned me that you get one great game in 10 from swankie, and i believe he has that ability , that is where the frustration comes in, i actually like swankie and want him to do well, but not at the expense of the team, he should have been off at half time or just after it, for his own good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalSaintee Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Can't help but feel that there may be a slight link between the abuse Swankie and Samuel get sometimes, and the clubs they used to play for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The ghost of Jim Morton Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Yeah:rolleyes: Like I heard loads of fans shouting " **** of Swankie you Dundee cnut":shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDT Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 When I pay £17 to watch MY team play, I don't expect world-class football or amazing goals. I've been a Saints fan too long- but I'll be damned if I except Swankie's lack of commitment when it comes to 50/50s ect. The guy has talent, but I personally would never except that level of commitment. Unacceptable and the teams performance was not much better. I dont often criticise the team, but yesterday wasn't good enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSam1884 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 I do think Swankies work ethic is questionable. There was a couple of occasions yesterday where I wouldn't even describe the ball as 50/50. More like 100% Swanks if he'd bothered to go for it. Fans can accept players having off days and I do not condone the abuse he was receiving but he just looked like he couldn't be bothered and that's not really acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broon Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Can't help but feel that there may be a slight link between the abuse Swankie and Samuel get sometimes, and the clubs they used to play for... I've often though that. When you think about the abuse the following players get/got: McInnes (Rangers, Dundee Utd) Peaso (Rangers) McGregor (Rangers) Scotland (Dundee Utd) Samuel (Dundee Utd) Swankie (Dundee) However, everytime I think that I cast my mind to Savo and he is a bloody hero amongst Saints fans despite being 'just ok'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalSaintee Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 I've often though that. When you think about the abuse the following players get/got: McInnes (Rangers, Dundee Utd) Peaso (Rangers) McGregor (Rangers) Scotland (Dundee Utd) Samuel (Dundee Utd) Swankie (Dundee) However, everytime I think that I cast my mind to Savo and he is a bloody hero amongst Saints fans despite being 'just ok'. The difference is the amount of effort/dedication they have for the club. Savo runs all game and throws himself around, and has given us some astonishing results with his goals. Swankie is accused, along with Samuel of being lazy and not putting the effort in, and the same went for Scotland. McInnes was criticised for the way he reacted at the 0-0 cup defeat by Partick in the CIS cup last season, if I remember correctly. . The fact is that these players don't appear to care much for putting the effort or heart in for their new team, and so the criticism may be all the sharper than if they were simply a lazy player from, say, some random third division team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Can't help but feel that there may be a slight link between the abuse Swankie and Samuel get sometimes, and the clubs they used to play for... I can honestly say that "previous" never comes into it for me. I was really frustrated with Swankie's performance yesterday. Firstly, because he has talent but cannot show it on a Saturday. Secondly, because there was no desire to "dig in" when things weren't going his way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUZZ Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Yet you eulogise about Willie McLaren, who was the biggest shirker of challenges/headers I've ever seen in a Saints shirt! my praise for mr mclaren is non genuine. those that know me are aware of this. he and swankie are 2 of a kind to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 I can honestly say that "previous" never comes into it for me. Nor me, I think that would be daft. By the way I'll be quite happy if we keep sneaking 1-0 wins since if we'd been beaten yesterday Livi would have just been 2 points behind us. I suppose that's why we were more cautious in our approach i.e. if they don't win we're at least the same points ahead of them. That might be the same approach against Dundee, Thistle and Dunfermline too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN PERTH'S FAIR CITY Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 I havent seen Liam 'give it his all' since he was defaulted to the left back slot. no matter where liam plays he gives his all every game and has probably been our best player this season along with rusty ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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