SaintJet

So glad I made a last minute decision to go last night. 

Great performance all round and I came away thinking we still have a real chance to be in the top league again next season. Good to see McGowan back in the fold- played well and lasted the whole game. Something strange about him being cut- defence were pretty much on top of things and were snapping in to challenges. Still think Consodine is a bit of a liability but if we can get young legs around him he'll do fine. Carey is a moaning C*** but he had a good game!

Really impressed with Robinson and Smith and Sprangler definitley fitted in well back there. There is no substitute for a goal scorer and Clark was excellent - salvation may rest with him.

My MOTM was Kane - considering he's been out for long spells his work rate was outstanding and he's so fit.

Nothing beats staying back with your fellow fans and acknowledging the players as they come off and them sharing the adulation.

We are alive and well and if nothing else we won't go quietly.

What's the weather like in Perth? Hammering down again in Dundee.

Any doubts about the game. Some Dee fans here concerned their game might be off.

5 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I wouldn't be surprised to see McGowan brought back into the fold tonight to add a bit of experience.

That aside, no idea what Cleland's likely to do but I wouldn't expect sweeping changes. The team were already preparing for tonight's game when Macca got the sack and Cleland will only have had, what, two training sessions at most since the change over? Who's even supporting Cleland with the coaching now?

Anyone know what the situation is with Carey? Is he out for a while?

I immeadiatley thought of McGowan coming back in to the side and if that comes to pass that will tell it's own story regarding the previous manager. I personally  like him in midfield but can see him being in the back four.

Kane and Clark to start and hopefully May gets another sniff.

6 minutes ago, chips said:

Yeah thinking the same, maybe a couple on the "bookies" list I'd be thinking fair enough, but would rather see a name come in nobody expected.

For my own greed Broony getting the gig would net me £80 but happy to lose out on that for someone more suitable 🤣

That's called taking one for the team. Close  your eyes...

40 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

Honestly don't think I've ever felt less faith in the people running our club than I did when I heard we were trying to get Martindale. It really does feel to me like we're fumbling around in the dark with no real plan.

Up until last night I'd been pinning my hopes to the notion that the board had something unexpected up their sleeve that might galvanise the place a bit, but nope, of course they don't.

With all due respect I'm in the complete opposite camp from you; I don't want a project or someone who might be a revolutionary with great ideas. I want someone who knows the league. I want someone who is respected and can come in and galvanise the team. If that means hoof ball to row Z and sneaking a late winner and that's the way we need to stay in the top league so be it. 

There is something wrong with the whole dynamic of the team, attitude, togetherness, mentality and I'm not giving up on someone being able to get a tune out this squad.

12 minutes ago, SlickDT said:

I am really struggling to find someone on the list that gives me any confidence.

I would be ok with Martindale, not because I believe he is an outstanding candidate, but because he is a better bet than many of the other options on the list.

I have zero interest in the likes of McCann, Dodds or co.

Scott Brown doesn't have huge amounts of experience. Surely we need some of that in the position we are in.

This will be a wildly unpopular shout, but I would consider Ian McCall. Always thought he has done a good job at the club's he has been at and seems the sort that gets players behind him and working together.

Would Owen Coyle on a short-term deal be an option? He isn't known for being great tactically, but he does seem to get a good team spirit going.

I'm not convinced that we have heard the last of Martindale.

1 hour ago, GOB10 said:

After being called out a few times on this topic about my views on martindales past and how I'd prefer him not to get the job

I had time last night to look through a short documentary surrounding him and Livingston, and i have to be man enough and say i was probably wrong to judge his present character on the one of his past..

He certainly does seem to have turned his life right around for the better and didn't shy away from questions he was asked about his past so i can only applaud the man on that.

A insight into what he actually does at Livingston not just the football side of things was pretty impressive! The guys basically running the whole of Livingston top to bottom apart the financial side of things of course, not many manages get that luxury these days.

I still have questions if he is what we need as a manager and thats completely taking away his past before i get shot down again.. but we will wait and see.. last i have heard Livingston has told us to get tae F--k?.

That's a good post and credit to you for your acknowledgement.

3 minutes ago, mike_gain said:

The reasons you've given are why I, tongue in cheek, think we'll go for Dodds. The club hasn't really had the best couple of years in terms of being run behind the scenes.

I really would prefer someone with no connection to the club, we're not Rangers, I'd welcome some totally left field, mental appointment. Better to go down with some real craziness than a known entity playing 5 at the back with guff hoofball, drawing our way to relegation.

Sorry Mike, crazy football doesn't cut it in the Scottish premier; we have what we have player wise and we need someone to come in and spark the team. Hoofing our way out of this mess to safety - sign me up!

I'm hanging all hope on on how Kettle came in at 'Well when they were certain relegation candidates and transformed a team of haddy's in to a team very close to making Europe.

6 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

Awful lot of big assumptions being made here. Martindale has said what he's said because he's currently employed by another club. You might be right on Lennon but you don't know what he'd say yes or no to. A lot of people probably would have said Duncan Ferguson would have said no, but he's gone and taken a job at the bottom of the league below us. Some people were saying McInnes would say no to us and yet he also ended up taking a championship job.

Agree with you on Healy and I think he'd be a fantastic appointment, but he's had opportunities to take far better-paying jobs in England and hasn't gone. I'd be surprised if he would give up what he has at Linfield to come and struggle here.

Don't see this postition being of interest to Lenny. We're not high profile enough and he knows he's probably a few bad 'Sheep' results away from being in the frame at Pittodrie. 

Some of our best appointments have usually come with Geoff's direction and so it won't suprise me if it's someone we're not thinking about. Most candidates will know what they are going to be working worth here ( Present playing staff ) so that will have a bearing on who might want the job.

I'd take Martindale in a heartbeat.

13 hours ago, GOB10 said:

Absolutely nothing to do with snobbery! We as a club have prided ourselves through the years as a family club hence the reason we closed the door on two strikers that stepped out of they lines. We are proud to have nothing to do with some of the nonsense that goes on with other clubs in the spl. We dont need the Circus of a ex gangster rolling into town!. Honestly dont understand people getting uptight with others who are not wanting him at the club! Hes a half decent manager who now looks like he is on the decline.. is he really worth dividing a fan base over? Not in my eyes.

Dear Oh dear....

"Ex Gangster....."

Please just say you don't want the guy instead of spouting a load of nonesense.

The one hope I have is that Geoff will be involved in this next step. I think everyone needs a reality check and better be prepared for the worst. I don't think anyone is turning this around and we're getting relegated!

We need an experienced manager to come in and put a plan in place so we can return quickly becasue make no mistake if we don't come straight back up we will be lost for years.

I've got to think that some experienced manager will be able to sort out our defence which is frankly the worst I've seen in the league for years. We can use this season to identify which players from this squad might be able to continue in the future.

Davie Martindale might be interested if for no other reason he'll know that we can be a stable club if we get things right on the park and if he did the unthinkable and keep us up his stock would rise again.

2 hours ago, Widge said:

What about Booth's last 3 seasons allows you to even begin to use the word reliable in a sentence describing him? I can't be bothered doing the numbers, but I'd be amazed if he's even been available for 30% of the games we've played in that time, let alone played. 

Apologies to those not able to deduce the substance of my post.

Booth has been a very reliable player for us when he's not been injured and was a pivitol part of a very good side.

His injuries over the last couple of seasons have have blighted his career.

If he was to return to full fitness and get decent amount of playing time under his belt, I'm sure he'd be reliable once more.

2 hours ago, blueheaven said:

Interesting to see Macca include this in his latest Courier comments:

“Ali (Crawford) is still injured but Boogie (Callum Booth) is back training and available for selection."

As far as I can tell neither of these guys have been mentioned for ages. Wonder if this means he's considering Booth as an option for selection again. Personally I'd be happy to see a fit Callum Booth back in the squad.

Booth has been a reliable a servant for us and we are definitely a better side when he's playing every week. I like his attitude too.

I fear he is just another bad knock away from another lay off though.

We really need to be winning this game. We have had plenty time to rest up and get our formations sorted.

We have no excuses for "slow starts" or any other BS.

Go out, play hard and show the rest of the league we are back.

Weather and conditions throughout St.Andrews and Dundee area pretty atrocious. If Dundee were home tomorrow I doubt they would be playing tomorrow.

What's the latest through in Perth?

Been a wee while since I started a thread so with new hope I thought I'd get discussion about our game with 'Well underway.

Another decent performance in Aberdeen has given some hope that we might have made a significant turn and if we can get that first win we really would have something positive to hang on to.

Desperatley need that win and it's going to be a tricky match against Motherwell who have been in good form since Kettlewell has been in charge.

Keep an eye on the weather for this one - updates from local patrons appreciated over the next couple of days.

4 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

I definitely think there's something to be said for rebuilding in a lower league, clearing out the duds, getting back into a winning habit and coming back up with a clean slate. If it was done well/properly it could give the whole club a bit of a new lease of life. I do have major doubts about whether the club would get it right, though.

I think one of the things that really depresses me about going down is we've now had 14 consecutive years in the top flight, which is the best spell in our entire history, and we should have been able to carry on building on that and growing gradually stronger and really confirming our place as an established top flight club. Having to go down and start from scratch, yet again, like various yo-yo clubs keep having to do, after everything Tommy Wright and his predecessors had built, just feels like a massive let-down. It's just infuriating to think of how avoidable the decisions that have brought us to this point were. 

I know some people will say that, for a club of our size, it's inevitable that we'd end up going back down at one point or another - but I really disagree with that.

 

This is a great post BH.

Not building a solid foundation for the future after such a succesful period; this is the single biggest thing that drives me nuts. With some careful planning we should have been able to weather some thin spells. The spending last year was just nonsensical and we could all see where it was leading. The PR from the club has been abysmal over the the good years and we never truly capitalised on our success. We were always last to promote a new kit even after the double cup years which sums up our ambition.

Sadly I think it's too late to save us now and it's going  to be a long road back.

I hate playing Livi anytime but with our back to the wall its a scarey prospect.

Last year we were three down in heartbeat; if we lose an early goal we're done for. I really hope we can get a win and drag them back in to it but I'm not to hopeful. 

33 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

Not convinced on that. He mentioned playing 4-4-2 in the closed doors game against St Mirren and to me he was suggesting that would have been his plan for Saturday. Either way though, I'm not convinced by the idea that having a striker on the bench is of more value than giving yourself the best possible chance from the start of the game. In fact I'm not even convinced by the argument that we'd have had no striker on the bench. Weren't we told when Costelloe arrived that he can play in every position across the front line?

 

I think this is pretty much where I am at the moment too.

I think you and Rad are the same as a lot of us and feel Macca deserves every chance, hoping that we are going to see something positive to give us a prayer but the stats and the performances don't lie. He has to go if we lose on Saturday.

25 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

I think at the very, very least it makes sense to see how the Livingston game goes. If we win that our points tally will be closer to the other teams again and it would hopefully give us a bit of a confidence boost and a platform to build from, with our next game after that against Aberdeen who are likely to still be 11th (as they play Rangers at Ibrox on Saturday). But if we lose against Livi and still don't look like scoring goals, I think a lot of people's patience is going to run out and that could conceivably extend to the board.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said but we've knowingly given an inexperienced manager the job under circumstances I think most managers would struggle in, and to me it feels downright unfair not to give him a reasonable chance to turn this around.

FWIW I suspect he was given the three-year contract to give him some protection if new owners had come in over the summer and wanted to immediately get rid of him. I wonder though if the Browns have been a little naive in thinking/hoping the club would have been sold by this stage.

Fair Comment.

I still think  he'll be gone in two weeks or at best the next International break.

13 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

MacLean should be given some leeway due to the mess he inherited, state of the squad and the budget cuts.

But at the same time he has to actually earn patience too, simply not being Callum Davidson isnt enough.

I got worried after the Stenhousemuir result, really concerned after the collapse against Stirling, and every week i feel worse about things. I can take us struggling as young players get used to the league, or a squad tries to gel, or a rookie manager tries to learn from his mistakes, but regularly losing goals to set plays + the lack of any tempo on the park + the McGowan situation make me worry we're just at Davidson 2.0, and all the early bravado and optimism was simply trying to paint himself in a different light.

To talk so openly about wanting a high press, and how you know May doesnt work as a lone striker, to having your first 10 games of a season show no sign of high pressing, even against lower league sides, and May more often than not a lone striker, is a big problem.

Livingston game is massive for him.

How much leeway are you willing to give him? The only positive result he's had is a battling rearguard at Parkhead!

The league cup was a disaster.

We have no identity and no leaders. It's like going back to CD changing personnel and tactics each week to see if it works.

I'm consistant in my view that to give him a three year deal was crazy and we'll be paying him gardening leave in a month's time if he lasts that long.

10 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

I think we set ourselves up to fail on Saturday. Not only was May on his own up front again but he didn't even have a central attacking midfielder supporting him this time. We've signed all these attacking players and wingers (Jephcott, Costelloe, Turner-Cooke, even Smith I thought was able to play further forward) and yet they all sit on the bench while Phillips is asked to play in an advanced role he's completely unsuited to. 

At what point did we become so scared of teams that we decided to never, ever start a game with more than one striker on the pitch? I understand being a bit more cautious away from home but we were playing Hibs, not Galatasaray.

I think at this point there's a real danger of this spiralling into a situation where the players' heads are down from losing every week and unless he gets a grip of this soon there'll be nothing Macca will be able to do to turn that around. He needs to be incredibly brave now and prove he's willing and able to do something his predecessor wasn't: change his system for the better. He's spoken such a good game about pressing teams and attacking and all the rest of it, but we've seen none of it on the pitch and he needs to put that right immediately.

This is a young, inexperienced team and if they lose games then so be it, but when we don't even have a plan for how to score goals, and are coming nowhere near the opposition goal, and are scoring zero goals in five out of six games - that's just nowhere near good enough.

I'm standing by what I said in the Rangers thread that we should give this until the next Rangers match on 4th November, but I don't think there's any question at this point that the manager's job is now in serious danger.

Nothing has changed and why would it? I got slaughtered for saying that if we got of to a bad start we'd have to jettison McLean. That's not looking so insane now is it? 

The team has signed loads of players and apart from the Goalie none have shown up. Okay the injuries haven't helped but that doesn't paper over the fact we are not getting any better week after week.

The team has no identity and the tactics are aimless. 

5 hours ago, blueheaven said:

Maybe still early days but this already feels like it could be a pivotal game for us. Win it and it should give us a massive boost going into the next few games. Lose it and we'll still be rooted to the bottom of the table with no wins and I dread to think what it'll do to the squad's confidence.

With previous games it's felt like there have been some mitigating circumstances to take into account (e.g. lots of injuries; lots of debuts; playing against Rangers or Celtic), but this to me feels like the first game where there's really nowhere to hide and the pressure could be on if we don't get at least a point.

Hard to say what Macca will do with the team for this one. Personally I want to see May start with Kane, and Wright should also start too if he's fit. Will we maybe see Sprangler start too?

I agree, this could be a huge game to turn around a dismal start to our season. 

You've got to think Hibs will up for it with their first home game with a new manager but that could work in our favour with an expectant crowd. (Daniel Stendal)

I agree also, there is no room for excuses now, team have been together long enough and if they don't know how McLean wants them to play by now they don't have it.

Defense needs to be solid at the back and hoping for a good holding performance from Philips. I have no reason or evidence for this but I think we might just win this handily tomorrow.

1 hour ago, Stumpy1949 said:

Spoken by a true conservative who never tries to find out the truth before he opens his mouth. 

Guilty as charged!

I'll try to read the small print in future.

12 minutes ago, glenrothes saintee said:

Try reading the post properly, UK GOVT. not the Scottish Govt.

Glad this has got a reaction. 

My Bad, it's not the Lunatic SNP goverment for this consultation.