Radford 72

Before yesterday, I was all set to give Lomas the next five games (County, Dundee, ICT, St Mirren and Killie) to not just maintain a level of performance but pick up points. That was from someone who has been defending his record on here. Not sure yesterday changes too much in that regard, does it? Still need to be looking for a good return from those matches (at least seven points, although I'd be putting a bit more pressure on him and talking about maybe ten) and the Celtic result won't gloss over things if we don't do well in those games.

He did well yesterday. Both him and Wright seemed to give good direction from the bench, the team played well (if still looking a bit more disorganised than we've maybe been used to under McInnes) and he made the right calls at the right time. If he gets things right and the players maintain the level of performance I think we've seen in quite a few matches this season, we can pick up a decent points total over the next few weeks.

Before yesterday, I was all set to give Lomas the next five games (County, Dundee, ICT, St Mirren and Killie) to not just maintain a level of performance but pick up points. That was from someone who has been defending his record on here. Not sure yesterday changes too much in that regard, does it? Still need to be looking for a good return from those matches (at least seven points, although I'd be putting a bit more pressure on him and talking about maybe ten) and the Celtic result won't gloss over things if we don't do well in those games.

He did well yesterday. Both him and Wright seemed to give good direction from the bench, the team played well (if still looking a bit more disorganised than we've maybe been used to under McInnes) and he made the right calls at the right time. If he gets things right and the players maintain the level of performance I think we've seen in quite a few matches this season, we can pick up a decent points total over the next few weeks.

Before yesterday, I was all set to give Lomas the next five games (County, Dundee, ICT, St Mirren and Killie) to not just maintain a level of performance but pick up points. That was from someone who has been defending his record on here. Not sure yesterday changes too much in that regard, does it? Still need to be looking for a good return from those matches (at least seven points, although I'd be putting a bit more pressure on him and talking about maybe ten) and the Celtic result won't gloss over things if we don't do well in those games.

He did well yesterday. Both him and Wright seemed to give good direction from the bench, the team played well (if still looking a bit more disorganised than we've maybe been used to under McInnes) and he made the right calls at the right time. If he gets things right and the players maintain the level of performance I think we've seen in quite a few matches this season, we can pick up a decent points total over the next few weeks.

Kevin Moon's last minute winner at Easter Road a few seasons back when we'd gone 27 years without a goal in the SPL. Liam Craig had already burst that record but to win the match was fantastic and a long time coming.

We could still score in the Scottish Cup and Danny Invincibile's bullet header at Glebe Park. Tremendous atmosphere and match that belonged in the seventies.

Peter MacDonald's goal at Tynecastle a few rounds before the Brechin match.

Another Moon goal, to salvage a point at Tannadice after we'd thrown away a two goal lead. Thought the top tier was gonna collapse!

Jason Scotland's headers at both Tynecastle (vs Hibs) and Fir Park in the Scottish Cup in 2007. Ivano...

The Martin Hardie show at Broadwood a few days after the Scottish Cup semi-final against Celtic. Players were dead on their feet but like so often in those final few weeks, Hardie dragged us through a match almost by himself.

Winning at Ibrox with Milne's double.

Winning at Celtic Park in 1998 with the Dasovic goal. Have been lucky enough to see us win twice at Celtic Park. Makes all the defeats worth it.

The week in 2004 when we scored three late winners against promotion rivals. First Paul Bernard pops up to score a header at Broadwood in a 3-2 win, then Chris Hay scores a cheeky flick at Ochilview against Falkirk (fantastic celebrations on the terrace) and finally Keigan Parker scores a beautiful volley after Inverness had come back from two goals down. Sparked a wee pitch invasion from the East Stand.

Mark Reilly doing about the only positive thing he did in a Saints shirt with an injury time diving header to equalise against Queen of the South in 2002 or 2003. We'd be rotten all match and I have a feeling scored twice in injury time?

Couple of late Roddy Grant headers in our first season back up, one to secure a point at Pittodrie and another a winner at Easter Road, when we were in the top tier behind the goal.

George O'Boyle's second against Rangers that same season and his winner against Celtic a month earlier.

Kieran McAnespie coming off the bench at just sixteen or seventeen to score a brilliant volley (similar to a famous one Ginola scored in Europe for Newcastle) against Clydebank at Boghead on a Tuesday or Wednesday night as we went on our way to winning the league in 1997.

Remember a late, late winner at Dens Park but can't remember if it was 1995 or 1996, or even who scored it. We were at the opposite end to where we are now.

Comeback win against Dunfermline at McDiarmid Park on Boxing Day 1994, Peter Davenport with the winner. We were two down.

Roddy Grant with a last minute winner in the Scottish Cup against Hibernian in 1991.

Any of the three goals against Airdrieonians in March 1990 are an obvious mention too.

Could probably think of tonnes more but post is getting tl;dr as it is!

The official who said what you have just typed was Sir Norman Bettison, heavily involved with SYP. It is complete bollocks and you are making yourself look completely ignorant. The rescue effort made by the police? Really, did you just type that with a straight face? Honestly? Next you'll be saying the ambulance service did all they could. In case you don't know, your much adored police force let one ambulance out of over forty into the ground following the players being taken off the pitch. There was one professional ambulance man on the scene. The fans were the rescue effort.

It's not hard to educate yourself about Hillsborough if you want to. You should be embarrassed by your contribution to this thread. It's not about opinion either as what you are saying is complete rubbish. How many reports do we need that will clear the fans of blame before people like you finally accept it?

In saying all that, I don't think Saints (club or fans) need to anything tomorrow.

The official who said what you have just typed was Sir Norman Bettison, heavily involved with SYP. It is complete bollocks and you are making yourself look completely ignorant. The rescue effort made by the police? Really, did you just type that with a straight face? Honestly? Next you'll be saying the ambulance service did all they could. In case you don't know, your much adored police force let one ambulance out of over forty into the ground following the players being taken off the pitch. There was one professional ambulance man on the scene. The fans were the rescue effort.

It's not hard to educate yourself about Hillsborough if you want to. You should be embarrassed by your contribution to this thread. It's not about opinion either as what you are saying is complete rubbish. How many reports do we need that will clear the fans of blame before people like you finally accept it?

In saying all that, I don't think Saints (club or fans) need to anything tomorrow.

As you say, fans will be fans. There were a catalogue of errors/circumstances before the Liverpool fans even got close to the turnstiles that day but the police had to have both planned before and then reacted better on the day. Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate what it might have been like as a police officer in the eighties but it doesn't excuse them enough.

The game shouldn't have been played at Hillsborough, the warning signs had been there previously and you could probably argue Liverpool shouldn't have been at that end of the ground with their larger following, although I understand the reasons for that. The ground wasn't safe though and they were expecting to get 24,000 Liverpool fans through 23 old turnstiles. There was a delay in many fans reaching Sheffield because of an accident on the M62. Many survivors spoke about how empty the Leppings Lane end was at the back of 2:00pm, so you had thousands upon thousands of fans turning up just thirty minutes before kick-off. The police should have had a barrier check away from the turnstiles (as they did the previous year I think) and should have been prepared to organise the arriving fans better. They should also have delayed the kick-off. Instead, they let a situation brew outside the turnstiles which ended with the catastrophic decision to open an exit gate. Even when they did that, the CCTV doesn't show a particularly mad rush to get into the ground but the problem was as fans entered, all they saw was one tunnel ahead of them. That led into just a couple of the four pens that the terracing had been divided into and was at a gradient such as when the crowd started to move towards and down that tunnel, there was no turning back. I can't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head by the HSE reckoned that those two pens ended up with more than twice their safe capacity packed into them but what have the fans done wrong as this stage? Turned up late, buzzing for a semi-final and eager not to miss kick-off?

Made my point about what happened after that point, when the referee took the players off the pitch above, so won't repeat it but to say that the fans were the ones who reacted to those injured and dying, as police officers were ordered not to let ambulances into the ground or to keep the fans in the pens.

But you have taken that from Bettison, who is someone who has proven himself (that is an opinion more than a fact at this stage AFAIK) to be untrustworthy. Fans probably were angry with the police on the day but you just need to look at the video taken from Hillsborough to see who it was ferrying fans around on stretchers etc... to know the fans did plenty when they finally managed to escape being battered back down into their pens. A lot of the police officers on the ground would be following orders and, of course, wouldn't have pleasant experiences of football fans in the eighties but it's very hard to excuse the actions of many of them. Fans, pressed right up against the fences, pleading to get let out and officers ignoring them. How could a police officer think this was normal?



Honestly mate, there is plenty of stuff already out there that you can read to find out about the disaster but this week should finally prove the fans were not to blame for the disaster.

The official who said what you have just typed was Sir Norman Bettison, heavily involved with SYP. It is complete bollocks and you are making yourself look completely ignorant. The rescue effort made by the police? Really, did you just type that with a straight face? Honestly? Next you'll be saying the ambulance service did all they could. In case you don't know, your much adored police force let one ambulance out of over forty into the ground following the players being taken off the pitch. There was one professional ambulance man on the scene. The fans were the rescue effort.

It's not hard to educate yourself about Hillsborough if you want to. You should be embarrassed by your contribution to this thread. It's not about opinion either as what you are saying is complete rubbish. How many reports do we need that will clear the fans of blame before people like you finally accept it?

In saying all that, I don't think Saints (club or fans) need to anything tomorrow.

The official who said what you have just typed was Sir Norman Bettison, heavily involved with SYP. It is complete bollocks and you are making yourself look completely ignorant. The rescue effort made by the police? Really, did you just type that with a straight face? Honestly? Next you'll be saying the ambulance service did all they could. In case you don't know, your much adored police force let one ambulance out of over forty into the ground following the players being taken off the pitch. There was one professional ambulance man on the scene. The fans were the rescue effort.

It's not hard to educate yourself about Hillsborough if you want to. You should be embarrassed by your contribution to this thread. It's not about opinion either as what you are saying is complete rubbish. How many reports do we need that will clear the fans of blame before people like you finally accept it?

In saying all that, I don't think Saints (club or fans) need to anything tomorrow.

Is it just me that it is worried about the fact the club has now posted a six figure loss in three of the last four years?

We have now made a loss of approximately 700k in the past four years, evidently we cant continue with this trend. We do have money in the bank, but there wont be much left if we continue to post such losses. Although the board have done well by the club, I really feel that they now need to make a careful decision on what way our club is heading. We cannnot continue to pay large wages to guys who in effect are journeymen. They have no re-sale value and are just a drain on the club. By all means have some experience in the side to build the spine of the team, however I feel we need to start placing our faith in youth development, better scouting systems and better coaching.

Rather than paying wages to a journeyman, I feel we should be improving our scouting network. Look at the gems Dundee United have picked up from the lower leagues, look at Tony Watt at Celtic, who was signed from Airdrie, there are decent young players in the lower leagues who would be desperate to prove their worth at St Johnstone. We should be selling ourselves as a club where young players can come, develop their skills, then move on to a higher level. In the meantime, the club will benefit as well as we will hopefully be able to sell some of these guys on to bigger clubs at a profit.

I realise that sounds slightly idealistic, but what are the other options? Continue as we are, paying high wages to journeyman with no sell on value or take the gamble and invest in our youths, scouting and better coaching? Its time for Mr Steve Brown and his board of directors to make some bold decisions on what direction our club is heading in.

A track record built up at a lower level over a number of years though. In his first season in charge, we ended up further away from Hamilton and Dundee by the end of the season than when he took over, with him winning just two of our final eight matches that season, defeats including a memorable 3-1 loss at Stirling Albion. Five defeats from seven against First Division opposition at the start of the next season too, so where was the track record that merited the board sticking by him at that point? Lomas is at the same stage as McInnes was, almost exactly, with us heading into an international break. That allowed McInnes a couple of weeks to work on things with his new squad and we didn't really look back under him. Clearly there is no guarantee whatsoever that Lomas will do the same and the first game after the split looks hard but after that we have the five teams that most folk would probably agree are our equals financially in the league. That is when Lomas will need to deliver results. If we're in trouble after the Inverness game, then that would be a fairer time to start judging him IMO.

A track record built up at a lower level over a number of years though. In his first season in charge, we ended up further away from Hamilton and Dundee by the end of the season than when he took over, with him winning just two of our final eight matches that season, defeats including a memorable 3-1 loss at Stirling Albion. Five defeats from seven against First Division opposition at the start of the next season too, so where was the track record that merited the board sticking by him at that point? Lomas is at the same stage as McInnes was, almost exactly, with us heading into an international break. That allowed McInnes a couple of weeks to work on things with his new squad and we didn't really look back under him. Clearly there is no guarantee whatsoever that Lomas will do the same and the first game after the split looks hard but after that we have the five teams that most folk would probably agree are our equals financially in the league. That is when Lomas will need to deliver results. If we're in trouble after the Inverness game, then that would be a fairer time to start judging him IMO.

Said it before but I'll judge the manager on what he does with this squad this season. We've played five league matches and have played well in part in four of the matches, as I'm sure folk at them would testify. If we'd had five performances like that seen against Aberdeen then I'd be far more concerned but we should have won yesterday, should have beaten Motherwell and were unlucky at Easter Road last week. Even on the opening day, we had good chances with ten men in the second half before they scored late on. Over a period as short as five games though, these things can go against you, they tend not to over a full season. Worth remembering again that Dundee United were near the foot of the table at the end of October last season and they didn't end up having too bad a season. Nothing is decided at the end of August, luckily for us as we've been right down this end of the table in all three seasons in the SPL prior to this one. It was October, was it not, before we won a match in our first season up.

Said it before but I'll judge the manager on what he does with this squad this season. We've played five league matches and have played well in part in four of the matches, as I'm sure folk at them would testify. If we'd had five performances like that seen against Aberdeen then I'd be far more concerned but we should have won yesterday, should have beaten Motherwell and were unlucky at Easter Road last week. Even on the opening day, we had good chances with ten men in the second half before they scored late on. Over a period as short as five games though, these things can go against you, they tend not to over a full season. Worth remembering again that Dundee United were near the foot of the table at the end of October last season and they didn't end up having too bad a season. Nothing is decided at the end of August, luckily for us as we've been right down this end of the table in all three seasons in the SPL prior to this one. It was October, was it not, before we won a match in our first season up.

A track record built up at a lower level over a number of years though. In his first season in charge, we ended up further away from Hamilton and Dundee by the end of the season than when he took over, with him winning just two of our final eight matches that season, defeats including a memorable 3-1 loss at Stirling Albion. Five defeats from seven against First Division opposition at the start of the next season too, so where was the track record that merited the board sticking by him at that point? Lomas is at the same stage as McInnes was, almost exactly, with us heading into an international break. That allowed McInnes a couple of weeks to work on things with his new squad and we didn't really look back under him. Clearly there is no guarantee whatsoever that Lomas will do the same and the first game after the split looks hard but after that we have the five teams that most folk would probably agree are our equals financially in the league. That is when Lomas will need to deliver results. If we're in trouble after the Inverness game, then that would be a fairer time to start judging him IMO.

I think it's being incredibly ambitious to talk about kicking on from last year etc... as a requirement when, like it or not, we did over achieve on the budget we have. That doesn't mean we can't do it again but if we want to finish consistently in the top six (or higher if you are talking about kicking on) then we need to spend at that level, which we won't be doing. Like I say, with our squad, I don't think that it's beyond us to make the top six (or better) again but that's not decided at the end of August, especially with the fixtures we've had. I actually don't think anything will be out of reach in November, so don't see that as being too late at all if Lomas, at that stage, doesn't look like he's going to push us towards that and the board do feel that should be what he's achieving.

I think it's being incredibly ambitious to talk about kicking on from last year etc... as a requirement when, like it or not, we did over achieve on the budget we have. That doesn't mean we can't do it again but if we want to finish consistently in the top six (or higher if you are talking about kicking on) then we need to spend at that level, which we won't be doing. Like I say, with our squad, I don't think that it's beyond us to make the top six (or better) again but that's not decided at the end of August, especially with the fixtures we've had. I actually don't think anything will be out of reach in November, so don't see that as being too late at all if Lomas, at that stage, doesn't look like he's going to push us towards that and the board do feel that should be what he's achieving.

Said it before but I'll judge the manager on what he does with this squad this season. We've played five league matches and have played well in part in four of the matches, as I'm sure folk at them would testify. If we'd had five performances like that seen against Aberdeen then I'd be far more concerned but we should have won yesterday, should have beaten Motherwell and were unlucky at Easter Road last week. Even on the opening day, we had good chances with ten men in the second half before they scored late on. Over a period as short as five games though, these things can go against you, they tend not to over a full season. Worth remembering again that Dundee United were near the foot of the table at the end of October last season and they didn't end up having too bad a season. Nothing is decided at the end of August, luckily for us as we've been right down this end of the table in all three seasons in the SPL prior to this one. It was October, was it not, before we won a match in our first season up.

Said it before but I'll judge the manager on what he does with this squad this season. We've played five league matches and have played well in part in four of the matches, as I'm sure folk at them would testify. If we'd had five performances like that seen against Aberdeen then I'd be far more concerned but we should have won yesterday, should have beaten Motherwell and were unlucky at Easter Road last week. Even on the opening day, we had good chances with ten men in the second half before they scored late on. Over a period as short as five games though, these things can go against you, they tend not to over a full season. Worth remembering again that Dundee United were near the foot of the table at the end of October last season and they didn't end up having too bad a season. Nothing is decided at the end of August, luckily for us as we've been right down this end of the table in all three seasons in the SPL prior to this one. It was October, was it not, before we won a match in our first season up.

A track record built up at a lower level over a number of years though. In his first season in charge, we ended up further away from Hamilton and Dundee by the end of the season than when he took over, with him winning just two of our final eight matches that season, defeats including a memorable 3-1 loss at Stirling Albion. Five defeats from seven against First Division opposition at the start of the next season too, so where was the track record that merited the board sticking by him at that point? Lomas is at the same stage as McInnes was, almost exactly, with us heading into an international break. That allowed McInnes a couple of weeks to work on things with his new squad and we didn't really look back under him. Clearly there is no guarantee whatsoever that Lomas will do the same and the first game after the split looks hard but after that we have the five teams that most folk would probably agree are our equals financially in the league. That is when Lomas will need to deliver results. If we're in trouble after the Inverness game, then that would be a fairer time to start judging him IMO.

A track record built up at a lower level over a number of years though. In his first season in charge, we ended up further away from Hamilton and Dundee by the end of the season than when he took over, with him winning just two of our final eight matches that season, defeats including a memorable 3-1 loss at Stirling Albion. Five defeats from seven against First Division opposition at the start of the next season too, so where was the track record that merited the board sticking by him at that point? Lomas is at the same stage as McInnes was, almost exactly, with us heading into an international break. That allowed McInnes a couple of weeks to work on things with his new squad and we didn't really look back under him. Clearly there is no guarantee whatsoever that Lomas will do the same and the first game after the split looks hard but after that we have the five teams that most folk would probably agree are our equals financially in the league. That is when Lomas will need to deliver results. If we're in trouble after the Inverness game, then that would be a fairer time to start judging him IMO.

Can't remember too many worse, although I recall an incident at Broomfield once (around 92/93) where two of our players (names McAuley, Davies and Wright spring to mind as potential culprits) ran into each other at a free kick. Anyone else remember this? Also a few years before that in a 2-1 win at Tannadice, I'm sure Paul Cherry managed to put a free kick offer the top of the shed end.

Not sure what Craig was thinking with the two worst free kicks in particular yesterday but imagine he won't look forward to seeing them again on the DVD if they are made to watch it.

A point and a clean sheet. He certainly had the team better organised and motivated this week. He was out all the time motivating the players and getting them organised. The team played for themselves, the manager and the fans. For those reasons, I am pleased and personally will give him a little more time to get things moving.

I can think of no precedent where we loan a striker out to a Third Division team (with great success) then didn't give him a chance when he returns to Perth, only for him to go on to score against us several times before winning a move to England and playing in the Premier League. Nope, I can't think of any players who have done that. Except Stephen Dobbie of course.

Before any long-term decision is made on Stevie May, he needs to be given a proper chance in the first team, in his proper position. If Lomas doesn't see that happening imminently, then maybe a loan to the First Division wouldn't be the worst thing in the world but at some point, a manager of Saints needs to put some faith in young players and give them a chance again.

Folk can point out Andy Jackson is playing part-time at Brechin but IMO, there is no danger he would be at that level if he hadn't had his troubles with illness and injury (and subsequently fitness). He scored nearly twenty goals in that 2007/08 after being given a chance, winning U21 honours for Ireland and would have gone on to have a really good career I think if it wasn't for his problems. Moon is another blighted by injury but an example that we can produce good young players, we just need to give them a chance. Writing off the guy before his twentieth birthday is mad. Without checking, I'd be surprised if David Goodwillie, for example, had featured much more for United at May's age, yet a few years later he's playing for Scotland and netting them a couple of million.