john1962 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Why should they get a vote? They don't get a vote in the Scottish parliamentary elections so why should they vote here. If you are changing the rules then it must be for every election not just one. I think its outdated for 16 & 17 year olds not to have a vote. I do agree it should be for every election though. I think it will depend on the result if that is to happen though. A no vote will mean a retention of the status quo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingaporeSaint Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 So what would you say is a fair criteria for who gets to vote? Just people born in Scotland? Or everyone resident in Scotland or born in Scotland? What about people who were born in Scotland but moved away when they were very young and have never been back since - is it really appropriate that they get a say in the decision? And many people would argue that you're Scottish if your parents are from Scotland - so should those people get to vote too? I suppose what I'm saying is... can Rod Stewart vote or not? IMHO the number one criteria IS being born in our homeland. That is in raw terms what makes you Scottish or not.. After that, I leave it to others to decide who is scottish or not or then who should be allowed to vote. Wee Eck will promote our talent as a top reason of our nation being a success. Throughout the centuries and decades that talent on numerous occasions has and will travel abroad to live and promote their dreams. How many Scots died on the Titanic, how many Scots died in the Twin Towers. They/we havnt given up on our country...we are promoting it from afar. From Stanley in the West to the guys in oz and kiwi.....give us a bit more respect and allow us to vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryhallsdanceband Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 IMHO the number one criteria IS being born in our homeland. That is in raw terms what makes you Scottish or not.. After that, I leave it to others to decide who is scottish or not or then who should be allowed to vote. Wee Eck will promote our talent as a top reason of our nation being a success. Throughout the centuries and decades that talent on numerous occasions has and will travel abroad to live and promote their dreams. How many Scots died on the Titanic, how many Scots died in the Twin Towers. They/we havnt given up on our country...we are promoting it from afar. From Stanley in the West to the guys in oz and kiwi.....give us a bit more respect and allow us to vote. Spot on. Whether I would for YES or NO is one thing - but I promote Scotland whenever I can and defend Scotland and Scots against unfair or incorrect criticism. Some ask why I should get a vote (as I live in middle England? - don't quite get the relevance of the 'middle' bit). I may be living out of the country for a short while -let's say two yrs - I don't get a vote. A Pole comes to Scotland for two years to earn a 'load' of money and then will head back to Poland - he gets a vote? Really??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1962 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Spot on. Whether I would for YES or NO is one thing - but I promote Scotland whenever I can and defend Scotland and Scots against unfair or incorrect criticism. Some ask why I should get a vote (as I live in middle England? - don't quite get the relevance of the 'middle' bit). I may be living out of the country for a short while -let's say two yrs - I don't get a vote. A Pole comes to Scotland for two years to earn a 'load' of money and then will head back to Poland - he gets a vote? Really??? The Pole is contributing to the Scottish economy and to be honest that analogy is at least five years out of date which in itself would suggest you are out of touch with Scotland. I dont get why you think you should get an equal say over something that has no direct affect over you to someone who has to live with the consequences of the decision immediately . If you are that keen to vote move home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryhallsdanceband Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Also - this has got me thinking of great Scots of today and of previous times. How many of the 'great Scots' we laud actually became great whilst living in Scotland? I suggest most became great having left Scotland. And none of them would get a say in the future of their country - a country they have established as GREAT the world over through their efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryhallsdanceband Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 The Pole is contributing to the Scottish economy and to be honest that analogy is at least five years out of date which in itself would suggest you are out of touch with Scotland. I dont get why you think you should get an equal say over something that has no direct affect over you to someone who has to live with the consequences of the decision immediately . If you are that keen to vote move home. why is it out of date? I know that a lot of Poles have returned to Poland - I just chose Poland as an example. Who knows what country the next influx of immigration will come from? And that influx could easy happen in the next two years. And suggesting that I move home if I want to vote...really...?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingaporeSaint Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_the_Scots_Invented_the_Modern_World Worth a read if you have time. Many of the people mentioned lived/travelled abroad and helped Scotland beocome one of the most famous nations on our planet. But ach, shouldnae be allowed tae vote ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingaporeSaint Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) I met a scottish women at London Heathrow when I was travelling up north last year, she lived in LA and was travelling to Glasgow to visit family. Flight was delayed but we were queuing. She needed to go to the toilet before boarding the plane. She was going to join the back of the queue when she came out but I insisted she came back in the spot in front of me (like you do when your Scottish). When I landed at Glasgow Airport, I went for a taxi at the desk. The same woman overheard me asking for a Taxi and insisted her nephew who was collecting her drop me off at Glasgow Queen Street Station (it wasn't even on their way home). Here we were, two folk as Scottish as the tartan biscuit tin helping each other out though we had both lived abroad for years. And yes we are not allowed to vote......it's just WRONG ! Edited October 22, 2012 by SingaporeSaint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryhallsdanceband Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) A few weeks ago I popped into my local convenience store for my newspaper. As I parked outside I noticed I was blocking someone in but as I was only going to be a minute I reckoned that that'd be OK. Lady in perhaps her early 70s buying her paper. As she finished I apologised for blocking her in (as we Scots do). She replied that it didn't matter as I was clearly Scottish as she was. Turns out that she was from Pitlochry, and after a bit more chat we discover that we had both worked in the same hotel in Pitlochry under the same manager - she was restaurant manager leaving about 7 years before I worked there as a Hall Porter. Not quite the discussion you'd expect to have following a random meeting of two folk in a convenience store in Surrey. But two random Scots - meeting and chatting enthusiastically about our homeland - we get a vote - nah! Edited October 22, 2012 by henryhallsdanceband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1962 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Some very nice stories here but have absolutely no relevance to having a say in the future of a country that you are not going to be living in. I helped an old woman cross the road when I was in Surrey can I vote in their local council elections? I say again if you are that keen to vote why not move home? Cake and eat it springs to mind? sixties saintee and blueheaven 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Does anyone know which way Neil Sullivan is planning to vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingaporeSaint Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Does anyone know which way Neil Sullivan is planning to vote? Born in Surrey, playing for Doncaster Rovers. Think he might vote the same way as Owen Coyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryhallsdanceband Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Some very nice stories here but have absolutely no relevance to having a say in the future of a country that you are not going to be living in. I helped an old woman cross the road when I was in Surrey can I vote in their local council elections? I say again if you are that keen to vote why not move home? Cake and eat it springs to mind? What are you talking about? How do you know I'm not going to be living in Scotland some time in the future? Maybe I'd move tomorrow if I could - but I'd be jopbless so would be drawing JSA and lot's more to support my family - you want that?? And I have got a significant vested interest in Scotland - my mum, brother, sister - their families and hundreds of relatives. But that aside - what are you so afraid of? You are happy that some Eastern European or whoever get the vote - and they have no real interest in Scotland other than making a lot more money than they could in the own country - and then in a few years time may very well disappear off home to build a life in THEIR own country using the money they have made in OURS? And as far as my having my 'cake and eat it' - well that is unfortunately a very typical Scottish 'chip-on-shoulder' attitude and the sort of thing that really winds up a lot of folk south of the border. As far as they are concerned, it's the SCOTS who have (never mind want) their 'cake and eat it'. I really, really don't get it - why are you so against folk like me getting a vote; folk who actually care about our country and take a close interest in it, but for whatever reason - and to make loads of money is not in general one of these reasons - do not live in the land of their birth. For goodness sake what are you so worried about? This ISN'T a vote about an issue or government that can be reversed in the future. This is the status of OUR country. Worries me that you don't seem to get why the likes of me and SingSaint feel we should have a vote. SingaporeSaint 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1962 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Your vested interests will get votes. I get exactly why you want a vote. You feel it's your right. I have family in England and don't think they should get a vote either. They chose to leave the country. They chose to contribute to the economy in England. When the decision is made they as we'll as others not living in the country will be able to say ah well it doesn't affect me, at least not unless I decide to move back. I have nothing against you if you had read an earlier post I don't think either side should be able to use ex pars as some like to call them. Where will we stop it? I know plenty of 3rd generation Canadians and South Africans. Should they get the vote? They will say they care as much about Scotland as anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryhallsdanceband Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Simply if you were born in Scotland but now live away. I resent European and other recent immigrants getting a vote when they might leave Scotland the day after the referendum and I don't. I'm not anti-immigrant per se - but they didn't come to Scotland because they wanted to contribute to Scottish life and the economy - they have come to make money. Most famous Scots became famous AFTER leaving Scotland - though you laud them as Scottish do you also damn them as mercenaries (because that is in essence what you are calling me) - leaving Scotland to make their way in the world? No you don't - you glory in their successes. But your point of view would mean that they they and I are in some way lesser-Scots. And as a lesser-Scot and not living in the country I do not merit a vote in the future of our country. I repeat - this isn't a vote about something that can be reversed if you don't like it - or reversed if there is a change in government. No - this is PERMANENT - and I should not be asking for a vote I should be DEMANDING a vote in the future of my country - it is just as much MY country as it is yours. SingaporeSaint 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1962 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) I dont laud or resent anyone. What they come to Scotland providing its legal is irrelevant. The bottom line is they are contributing to the Scottish economy. I have cousins born in Scotland butwho emigrated to Canada and South Africa in the late sixties and early seventies. They have no intention of coming back to Scotland to live and I doubt they will even come for a holiday now but you are saying they should get a vote? I am sorry but that is utter nonsense. Mainstand hit the nail on the head. It should be those who are allowed to vote in Scottish Parliament elections that should get to vote. Those are the people who got us to the stage where a referendum is now a reality and are the ones and those now eligible to vote in those elections should get a vote. I personally believe that sixteen and seventeen year olds should vote as its their future more than mine but only if granted a vote in all further elections. Edited October 22, 2012 by john1962 Dave Ferg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubands House Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) There are more scottish folk here in calgary than live in perth... A lot working here for firms based in Scotland and canada..Why ? because somehow us scots just do it better..!!! (so my wife says). These people are contributing to the Scottish economy be using there talent to improve buisness over here..it,s a two way horse. And after independence it will be BOOM Time in Scotland as it is here.. Should these talented Scots not get a vote ? They could turn Scotland into something better than it is now? Edited October 22, 2012 by Hubands House Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsaintee Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 born in Scotland get a vote (proxy or postal) not born in Scotland no vote, i also believe that if you are born in Scotland you can play for the national team no non scottish players sorry if this racist SingaporeSaint 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingaporeSaint Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Absolutely agree. Neither side should be able to draw on those living permanently outside Scotland. How do you define "permanently" ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingaporeSaint Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Actually I wonder why people on here are so negatively vocal and agitated that the likes of Husband, HenryHall and self are so interested in being able to vote for one of the most important decisions in our country's history. In the same breath, saying that migratory east europeans have more right than us. It must be the biggest "chip on the shoulder" that I have ever heard. It is the "small village" syndrome of all times at it's very worst. Geez, when I left Perth, never mind Scotland, I hate mates telling me I was daft. As posted previously, the most important criteria for being allowed to vote in this referendum is that you were BORN in Scotland. I will let you debate thereafter which ethnic minority should be allowed to join our 100% scottish bloodline in voting. And all this "you don't contribute" bollocks. Last I heard Income Tax was still paid to the Westminster coffers. Wee Eck will (and rightly so) promote our talent as one of our biggest assests. All through our history that talent has travelled abroad to realize their ambitions and dreams, not just for themselves but as Scottish pioneers. Edited October 23, 2012 by SingaporeSaint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryhallsdanceband Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 How do you define "permanently" ???? Indeed. I am currently living in England. Whether I have been living here for one day or 50 yrs does not make a difference as either way I don't get to vote. I may live in Scotland and never leave the country or I might leave the day after the referendum and never go back - either way I DO get a vote. Permanency does apply in the context of the referendum, and that is in respect of the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Lowes Left Foot Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 http://en.wikipedia....he_Modern_World Worth a read if you have time. Many of the people mentioned lived/travelled abroad and helped Scotland beocome one of the most famous nations on our planet. But ach, shouldnae be allowed tae vote ken And how many of the descendants of those influential Scots who lived abroad came back to live in Scotland? If the referedum had been in their lifetime, and they were given a vote, then they would have had an influence on the future of a country that no longer affected them, their children or their children's children. So, from that point of view, I don't beleive anyone living abroad is entitled to a vote in this referendum. And, in the same vein, I do believe the Poles and everyone else who have settled here should be allowed to vote as this affects them. Ok, some may go back, but the majority, in my opinion, will remain and their children and grandchildren too. I think that is evidenced by the number of people living in Scotland now who are of Polish Italian, Dutch, Lithuania Hungarian etc etc descent. Even in Perth there are many prominent people with European surnames whose families have lived here for generations. So, in my opinion, new immigrants will stay and therefore entitled to vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1962 Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 How do you define "permanently" ???? Main, regular, or the only residence (home) at a fixed address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryhallsdanceband Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Main, regular, or the only residence (home) at a fixed address. and so if I have a second home in Scotland I get to vote? I'll be paying Council Tax. And I'm still not really getting WHY we can't have a vote. It really almost sounds to be out of spite. I am perceived to have left Scotland to make a better life for myself and some folk seem almost resentful that I have done so. Edited October 23, 2012 by henryhallsdanceband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingaporeSaint Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 We are not voting for some dumpy Perth lord provost here, this referendum is extermely important. Of course we all know the criteria for voting for some dumpy Perth lord provost. Why do people not quite grasp that this is a bit more important. henryhallsdanceband 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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