The Official Good Luck England Thread

[O'Rourke]

Tremendous blueheaven.

[patsy]

every second advert is ****in england this england that im completley sick of it and they have not even kicked a ball. i hope they get humiliated

[Dennistoun Saint]

I dont understand where you get this idea that there is a widespread belief that England 'just have to turn up'. Most of the press and media are saying that England are going to have to be very lucky to get beyond the quarter-finals, and that while the group games *should* be straighforward they are very aware of potential banana skins, especially the USA. I guess there are a few 6 year-old England fans who suffer from unfettered youthful optimism (much as I did in 1978 when I was convinced that Scotland would win) but those aside, most England fans are being pretty realistic. Doesnt stop them wanting to support their team though. And I know that if Scotland had qualified, I'd feel the same way.

Maybe it's not as widespread as I suggested but it can range from the Sun's "jokey" Venebles television ad (with the addition of an extra star above their badge) to editorials talking about the "likely path to the final". I grant you that it's been scaled down in light of recent performances but too often there's a tone that goes beyond expectation and support into arrogance.

[Boy About Town]

Hope they win it. Be very nice to bring the trophy back to Great Britain.

I'm with you Muzz.Good Luck England.I'm glad to say I'm not xenophobic(For xenophobic see racist)

[Kilgour]

I'm with you Muzz.Good Luck England.I'm glad to say I'm not xenophobic(For xenophobic see racist)

Unfortunately Scotland once again did not make it.Neither unfortunately did Wales N Ireland or Eire whose capitals are as close if not closerthan London.So by default I should support England.No thanks.

My personal choice is Holland as I really like their style but I realise they most likely wont make the final.

Not wanting another team to prosper is a million miles away from being racist.We all have a right to choose and I respect yours...its just different from mine.

[wee john]

Like the players... like the supporters... hate the F***ing media.

I detest some of their support, complete nutters, racists, thugs, no respect for anyone.

worse than the OF.

[Dooj]

Have to agree. I think over the last 10 years or so there's been a big change in how the English media treat the England team. The cliche about the press down here used to be that they build the team up, just to knock them down. Nowadays, they seem to skip the building up part and just go straight to knocking them down (see the criticism the team got in the media following their recent friendlies, despite getting very good results against strong Mexico and Japan sides, as a prime example of this). The general mood down here seems to be that England's team is good enough to win it, but will almost certainly cock it up (personally I'd disagree with that though, as I don't think they are good enough to win it, and a quarter-final place would actually be a decent achievement even though it'd be treated as a disaster).

I really, really don't want them to win it though. I hope England fail miserably, and not because of any Scotland-England rivalry (I'm not a particularly patriotic Scot and I'm not much of a fan of the Scotland team), but because I don't think the patio-furniture-throwing, binge-drinking, flag-waving, grunting, borderline-racist element of their travelling support deserve that sort of happiness*. Having been to two previous World Cups and felt how the atmosphere turns tense and sour whenever their sort arrive on the scene, I can think of countless other nations who I'd rather see triumph. On top of that, I don't think I could bear seeing a celebrating Ian Wright/David Cameron/The Sun/The Daily Mail/Robbie Williams/James Corden/Danny Dyer/Keith Allen/Lily Allen/insert your own choice of c**t and get the idea.

*Before anyone says it, I'm well aware that not all England supporters are like that, and I've got absolutely no problem with the average England fan who isn't like that at all - but, let's face it, the existence of James Corden alone is a pretty strong argument for Scottish independence.

I agree that England should consider getting past the quarter finals as a major achievement. I would be very surprised if they got past the semis.

I also agree with what you say about the downside of an England victory *but* I would also have to say that the unpleasant element of their support that you identify could also very easily be identified in the German, Dutch, Spanish and Italian supports - some of the racist chanting/abuse that you hear in Europe is just as bad, if not worse, than that heard from the England fans.

And despite what you say about the celebrity fans who would become even more unbearable, I still would be happy for the 'ordinary' fans, those who have followed their team through thick and thin and who are as equally disgusted with the yob element of the support as we are, because they are in the majority.

[blueheaven]

I'm with you Muzz.Good Luck England.I'm glad to say I'm not xenophobic(For xenophobic see racist)

Does not wanting a particular football team to win make you by extension xenophobic or racist? If so then surely that means all football fans would have to want every nation to win, which surely defeats the purpose of being a supporter?

[ryangordon86]

havent really had the same Anti England feelings I usually get until yeterday when they described Algeria as their to make up the numbers and would be home before the second round. Thios on BBC Radioi 1, lack of respect again!!

Are you Algerian?!

I heard this too, they were of course talking about all the "minnows" that are playing at the World Cup and I can't see Algeria getting out the groups, can you?

[saint jason]

I'm with you Muzz.Good Luck England.I'm glad to say I'm not xenophobic(For xenophobic see racist)

Can you explain this please. A little confused as to your allusions.

Being "anti-English" may well be deemed as xenophobia. It clearly isn't racism as, for the millionth time, the English are not a race in the same way that the French, Italians, Germans or Scots aren't either.

If you are saying that it IS racism, are you infering that the reason people in Scotland wish them to fail is because they play non-Caucasian players?

Very vague to say the least.

I will watch their games with some English mates in Embra and take the piss win, lose or draw. There will be no fighting, recriminations or nastiness.

Do I want them to win? No.

Why? Because although I am British, I am also Scottish and therefore not English.

I'm going to support Australia because they like a bevvy too and have Scottish connections. Also, like us, they have nae chance of winning it.

[Dooj]

Can you explain this please. A little confused as to your allusions.

Being "anti-English" may well be deemed as xenophobia. It clearly isn't racism as, for the millionth time, the English are not a race in the same way that the French, Italians, Germans or Scots aren't either.

If you are saying that it IS racism, are you infering that the reason people in Scotland wish them to fail is because they play non-Caucasian players?

There are lots of different definitions of racism but it would be too simplistic to suggest that it is simply to do with skin colour - it also involves nationality and ethnicity. And of course, prejudice/discrimination against English people because they are English constitutes racism.

Not wanting England to win the World Cup is not necessarily (or indeed often) based on racism but for some Scots the blind hatred that they express against the England football team because they are English makes me think that there are a significant number who are racist.

[saint jason]

Jesus H. Christ!

I give up.

This may help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_human_beings)

If your theories on race contradict with those of the world's leading anthropologists, please feel free to take it up with them. I am sure they will be fascinated.

[O'Rourke]

Come on England!

[Dooj]

Jesus H. Christ!

I give up.

This may help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_human_beings)

If your theories on race contradict with those of the world's leading anthropologists, please feel free to take it up with them. I am sure they will be fascinated.

First of all, I dont really think that wikipedia would be considered by the world's leading anthropologists as the best reference source for a debate on race. Having said that, the article makes some reasonable comments about the problems of defining race and the concept of race as applied to humans.

Secondly, I made no reference to 'race'; I was discussing *racism*. I was trying to make the point that racism is not simply prejudice or discrimination based on race. You seem to be adopting a very literal and overly simplistic definition of racism by saying that you cant be racist against English people because they are not a race. I am saying that you can be racist against English people, not because they are a race, but because racism involves much more than physical characteristics but also nationality and ethnicity. This is the basis for the legal definition of racism. If I was to discriminate against an English person by, say, not giving them a job because they were English, I would/could be prosecuted under the Race Relations Act. If that isnt an example of racism then I dont know what is.

To get back to the topic, I would describe someone who abuses/hates/dislikes the English football team and/or its fans simply on the basis of their being English as racist. Alternatively, if you dont want to use the term 'racist' because of your overly simplistic definition directly linking it to 'race' (which is a disputed term), maybe you could just call it "unacceptable prejudice". It doesnt make it any more palatable in my eyes.

Thirdly, please dont give up.

[SaintDougie]

Come on England!

I once stood at the Border and pissed on England, but I can't say I've ever come on England:)

[saint jason]

First of all, I dont really think that wikipedia would be considered by the world's leading anthropologists as the best reference source for a debate on race. Having said that, the article makes some reasonable comments about the problems of defining race and the concept of race as applied to humans.

Secondly, I made no reference to 'race'; I was discussing *racism*. I was trying to make the point that racism is not simply prejudice or discrimination based on race. You seem to be adopting a very literal and overly simplistic definition of racism by saying that you cant be racist against English people because they are not a race. I am saying that you can be racist against English people, not because they are a race, but because racism involves much more than physical characteristics but also nationality and ethnicity. This is the basis for the legal definition of racism. If I was to discriminate against an English person by, say, not giving them a job because they were English, I would/could be prosecuted under the Race Relations Act. If that isnt an example of racism then I dont know what is.

To get back to the topic, I would describe someone who abuses/hates/dislikes the English football team and/or its fans simply on the basis of their being English as racist. Alternatively, if you dont want to use the term 'racist' because of your overly simplistic definition directly linking it to 'race' (which is a disputed term), maybe you could just call it "unacceptable prejudice". It doesnt make it any more palatable in my eyes.

Thirdly, please dont give up.

Yip.

So it IS xenophobia then.

For what it's worth, I whole heartedly agree with your assertion that anyone who has a somewhat bilious hatred of England/the English and it's sporting teams is quite clearly prejudiced/bigoted or (more than likely) a bit thick. It is incredible how living in a cosmopolitan city can open your eyes to the shear stupidity of the "blame England" culture.

Also, you are correct about the Race Relations Act. That may say more about the absurdity of the act than the term "racism".

Still wont be supporting them. Still wont be going around with an American/Algerian or Slovenian shirt on either.

Finally, I gave up years ago!

[Dooj]

Yip.

So it IS xenophobia then.

Of course, that's an even more contentious term. 'xeno' implies 'foreign' and I dont think that many Scots would consider the English as 'foreigners'. Also, 'phobia' implies 'fear' and I don't think that you need to fear something to hate it.

For what it's worth, I whole heartedly agree with your assertion that anyone who has a somewhat bilious hatred of England/the English and it's sporting teams is quite clearly prejudiced/bigoted or (more than likely) a bit thick.

Unfortunately, the likes of Nick Griffin demonstrate that you can be very intelligent and very prejudiced. Ignorance and stupidity underpins much prejudice, but by no means all.

It is incredible how living in a cosmopolitan city can open your eyes to the shear stupidity of the "blame England" culture.

Also, you are correct about the Race Relations Act. That may say more about the absurdity of the act than the term "racism".

Still wont be supporting them. Still wont be going around with an American/Algerian or Slovenian shirt on either.

Finally, I gave up years ago!

I am very happy to support England but I certainly wont have 'that depressing feeling that lasts for days' when they are knocked out.

[saint jason]

Scotland and England are seperate countries, all be it in the loosest possible sense of the term. Therefore, I fail to see why they would not be classed as foreign. We do cross a border do we not?

Okay, we will call it intercultural incompotence then.

Nick Griffin is not intelligent. Yes, he went to Cambridge, but it is amazing what very rich and inflential parents can give you in life.

I shall support myself as I always do.

Nice to have some intelligenct chit chat on WAP though. Rather thin on the ground these days I feel.

[Dooj]

Scotland and England are seperate countries, all be it in the loosest possible sense of the term. Therefore, I fail to see why they would not be classed as foreign. We do cross a border do we not?

Okay, we will call it intercultural incompotence then.

Nick Griffin is not intelligent. Yes, he went to Cambridge, but it is amazing what very rich and inflential parents can give you in life.

I shall support myself as I always do.

Nice to have some intelligenct chit chat on WAP though. Rather thin on the ground these days I feel.

If you overheard a conversation in a perth pub with one person saying to another "There's an awfy lot o' foreigners in Perth, these days" I doubt you would assume they were talking about English people. Similarly if someone referred to 'foreign football teams' I would be surprised if they were referring to Portsmouth or Newcastle. I may have to cross a border when heading back to see Saints but I certainly wouldnt decribe myself as living in a foreign country (strange as it is, at times!).

Nick Griffin is a thoroughly despicable, odious wretch and I disagree with everything that he stands for. He has considerable intellectual ability albeit that it has been used for evil purposes. I guess it depends on your definition of intelligence - I once described Gazza as intelligent and everyone thought that I was talking rubbish. I still maintain that, on the pitch, he was an incredibly intelligent player. Doubt he could finish a Su Doku though

[SaintDougie]

FFS Lads, would the pair of you get of your high horse. At the end of the day it is a healthy rivalry between nations. Just because someone doesn't want to support England or would rather see them lose does not make them racist, xenophobic or whatever you want to label people.

And before you start I do not hate the English, I have many English friends and have had more English girlfriends than any other nation. I do however want to see them lose, though I just see it as a sporting rivalry, and not just with Football, with any sport in which both Scotland and England take part(Whether it’s at the same time or not).

At the end of the day what is the point in sport without rivalries and competitiveness?

[saint jason]

FFS Lads, would the pair of you get of your high horse. At the end of the day it is a healthy rivalry between nations. Just because someone doesn't want to support England or would rather see them lose does not make them racist, xenophobic or whatever you want to label people.

And before you start I do not hate the English, I have many English friends and have had more English girlfriends than any other nation. I do however want to see them lose, though I just see it as a sporting rivalry, and not just with Football, with any sport in which both Scotland and England take part(Whether it’s at the same time or not).

At the end of the day what is the point in sport without rivalries and competitiveness?

Bring a tear to glass eye that would. Ever thought of a career in journalism?

Interesting you have "had more English girlfriends than any other nation". By my reckoning China's population at the last census was 1,324,655,000 so, wow, impressive.

Incidentally, a discussion on semantics is not getting on a high horse. It's a discussion, kapish?

And I always like sentences that start, "before you start I do not hate the English". Brilliant! That's up there with I'm not a racist but............

Methinks he doth protest too much. Shakespeare said that.......he was English.

Now back to your prolific shagging.

[Dooj]

FFS Lads, would the pair of you get of your high horse. At the end of the day it is a healthy rivalry between nations. Just because someone doesn't want to support England or would rather see them lose does not make them racist, xenophobic or whatever you want to label people.

And before you start I do not hate the English, I have many English friends and have had more English girlfriends than any other nation. I do however want to see them lose, though I just see it as a sporting rivalry, and not just with Football, with any sport in which both Scotland and England take part(Whether it’s at the same time or not).

At the end of the day what is the point in sport without rivalries and competitiveness?

Well I dont ever recall saying that I didnt want 'healthy rivalries' or 'competitiveness'. It is when these are based on racism that I disagree. Unfortunately, many of the comments that I have heard from Scots not wanting England to win *appear* to be based in racist attitudes - the big problem, of course, is that you can never know why someone does or does not support a team - they can say one thing and believe another.

I am not going to judge anyone for who they do or do not support (unless it is for racist reasons) - who you identify with is an intensely personal thing. However, there are plenty contributors on here who do judge - not only in this thread but also, notably, in discussions about players who have chosen not to play for Scotland but play for another country, as if someone's national identity was a simple as where you are born.

[SaintDougie]

Interesting you have "had more English girlfriends than any other nation". By my reckoning China's population at the last census was 1,324,655,000 so, wow, impressive.

I Knew that was coming, You know what I meant:)

[sjfc.spl.09-10]

5 english 'thugs' arrested

[saint jason]

5 english 'thugs' arrested

Well that's good then isn't it?

Or do you want to see a full scale riot with water cannons and rubber bullets?

Bet a lot of Scots do so we can tut and take the moral highground. Utterly hilarious!

I reckon renton got it right in Trainspotting.