Smarmy Arab Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 my mum still talks about the Pakis - I cringe when I hear her - but she isn't saying it in a derogatory or racist manner - actually quite the opposite - almost affectionately Certain words are loaded, the P word certainly is! There is a whole lot more to be considered than the mere intentions of the user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstar101 Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Hmmm So in reality the message you are teaching your son is that all male homosexuals are all wimpy and weak is it not ? If you ignore everything else I wrote about the meaning or intention behind the use of certain terms, then, whatever, yes A mate of mine, from several years ago, was gay. You would not mess with him!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertsSaintee Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 All kidding aside, I'm a fan of PC, and consider it a form of institutionalised manners and a real cultural advance. I'm old enough to remember this country before PC took hold and peoples attitudes to black people, Asian people, homosexuals and women were a disgrace. I was taught by openly racist teachers (some of them very good charismatic teachers) and witnessed racist and homophobic bullying at school, at work and in other public places, rightly this is no longer acceptable. It would be naive to think these evils have vanished but anything that makes racists etc shut the **** up has got to be a good thing! Your Utopia sounds great - I'd love it if people were educated enough to not be racist, homophobic, etc, etc. To be fair mainded is common sense after all, isn't it? The reality is though that Political Correctness is an invasive and controlling ideaology which seeks to legislate (sometimes against all good sense) on issues such as these. It wants to tell you how you should think and what you should feel. It also puts massive barriers in the way of enterprise and business, dictating to them the sorts of people they must be employing in the guise of "equality" or "positive discrimination", thereby killing any concept of meritocracy. That approach just drags everything down to a common denominator. The lowest. Because of PC, we are now also forced by law to "respect" others' religious belief systems which leave body counts numbering millions in their wake. The sad fact of the matter is that the only possible conclusion if we continue hell-bant down this crazy PC road we're on is that we end up with a society not unlike that described by George Orwell in "1984" - one where people are afraid to speak their minds for fear of retribution. Great that people agree with you on all of this though, SA! Now you'll probably just accuse me of being "racist", "homophobic" or some other nasty type of bigot (none of which I consider myself to be) - It's the standard PC retort against someone who doesn't agree with the ideal, and is simply designed to stifle any further debate. Anyway, when I want to live in a society like that, I'll buy a one way ticket to North Korea. Until I do, forgive me if I rail against it in the UK at every opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstar101 Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 I agree with much of what you say Herts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingaporeSaint Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 A mate of mine, from several years ago, was gay. You would not mess with him!! You enhance the point I was trying to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstar101 Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 You enhance the point I was trying to make. No I don't....as I demonstrated that I do not believe all male homosexuals to all be wimpy and weak, as I know that they are not. Yet, the use of the term 'poof' in the context I used it with my son is recognised as a term for such conditions, rightly or wrongly. When using it, it was not a slight against male homosexuals....which is the whole point of what I am saying. I am also not claiming that male homosexuals may not have been offended by my use of it, which also supports what I said earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueJ Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Your Utopia sounds great - I'd love it if people were educated enough to not be racist, homophobic, etc, etc. To be fair mainded is common sense after all, isn't it? The reality is though that Political Correctness is an invasive and controlling ideaology which seeks to legislate (sometimes against all good sense) on issues such as these. It wants to tell you how you should think and what you should feel. It also puts massive barriers in the way of enterprise and business, dictating to them the sorts of people they must be employing in the guise of "equality" or "positive discrimination", thereby killing any concept of meritocracy. That approach just drags everything down to a common denominator. The lowest. Because of PC, we are now also forced by law to "respect" others' religious belief systems which leave body counts numbering millions in their wake. The sad fact of the matter is that the only possible conclusion if we continue hell-bant down this crazy PC road we're on is that we end up with a society not unlike that described by George Orwell in "1984" - one where people are afraid to speak their minds for fear of retribution. Great that people agree with you on all of this though, SA! Now you'll probably just accuse me of being "racist", "homophobic" or some other nasty type of bigot (none of which I consider myself to be) - It's the standard PC retort against someone who doesn't agree with the ideal, and is simply designed to stifle any further debate. Anyway, when I want to live in a society like that, I'll buy a one way ticket to North Korea. Until I do, forgive me if I rail against it in the UK at every opportunity. I applaud you Sir. A brilliant post. Positive discrimination = discrimination. One of the most disgraceful PC actions of them all ie You bastards have discriminated on the grounds of colour, gender etc for centuries, which is disgraceful. We must stop these terrible, shameful acts as discrimination is just wrong. However, when we've done that, we're going to use discrimination to fulfil our own agenda as we're really nice people and discrimination is good. Political correctness + greed = the shambles that is 2011 Britain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryhallsdanceband Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 then again my old man used to say that 'it's not what you say it's the way that you say it' so sensitive me used to get upset with the Jewson advert which would always finish with 'we've got the Jewson lot' Point being that we all know the word the advertiser is replacing with Jewson - and on that basis the statement is offensive - a bit like FCUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingaporeSaint Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 No I don't....as I demonstrated that I do not believe all male homosexuals to all be wimpy and weak, as I know that they are not. Yet, the use of the term 'poof' in the context I used it with my son is recognised as a term for such conditions, rightly or wrongly. Oh, so thereafter you have explained all this to your son Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstar101 Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Oh, so thereafter you have explained all this to your son No, but I will raise him to judge every person as an individual and not pre-judge them based on their sexual preference, their skin colour or whatever. I tried this out and let him read your posts....he thinks you're a fudd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingaporeSaint Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 No, but I will raise him to judge every person as an individual and not pre-judge them based on their sexual preference, their skin colour or whatever. I tried this out and let him read your posts....he thinks you're a fudd f#cking cheeky little poof ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstar101 Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 f#cking cheeky little poof ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODAB Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Your Utopia sounds great - I'd love it if people were educated enough to not be racist, homophobic, etc, etc. To be fair mainded is common sense after all, isn't it? The reality is though that Political Correctness is an invasive and controlling ideaology which seeks to legislate (sometimes against all good sense) on issues such as these. It wants to tell you how you should think and what you should feel. It also puts massive barriers in the way of enterprise and business, dictating to them the sorts of people they must be employing in the guise of "equality" or "positive discrimination", thereby killing any concept of meritocracy. That approach just drags everything down to a common denominator. The lowest. Because of PC, we are now also forced by law to "respect" others' religious belief systems which leave body counts numbering millions in their wake. The sad fact of the matter is that the only possible conclusion if we continue hell-bant down this crazy PC road we're on is that we end up with a society not unlike that described by George Orwell in "1984" - one where people are afraid to speak their minds for fear of retribution. Great that people agree with you on all of this though, SA! Now you'll probably just accuse me of being "racist", "homophobic" or some other nasty type of bigot (none of which I consider myself to be) - It's the standard PC retort against someone who doesn't agree with the ideal, and is simply designed to stifle any further debate. Anyway, when I want to live in a society like that, I'll buy a one way ticket to North Korea. Until I do, forgive me if I rail against it in the UK at every opportunity. The only problem with your arguement is that gay, black, asian, short, ginger, women, muslim and disabled people are all paid less for doing the same job as straight, white males of above average height. I have no doubt there are some cases of positive discrimination, which you are completely right in saying is still discrimination. However, the discrimination that happens the other way is far greater even still. Political Correctness certainly can go to far and it is important for people to have a freedom of choice and speech. However, there has to be a degree of commonsense in this. Not so long ago it was common for children to get a "n!gger" brown crayon. We can't simply say people should be allowed to use any term they want, well certainly not in public places. Commonsense is the key, unfortunately that is part of the problem as there seems to be a great shortfall in this. What I do find amusing is so many people are fine screaming about Old Firm fans and their nonsense are happy to use bigotted language or words if they think it is ok. It is a disgrace (well on occasion, according to the press) when the Old Firm fans sing their songs but there are homophobic songs sung and chants everyweek in every ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 If some of the comments that surfaced on a similar thread a few years back (some of which caused a number of regular posters to leave the forum for good) are anything to go by, football still has a long way to go before homophobia (and the tactic of moaning about so-called "political correctness" to justify it) is finally left behind. I just hope this thread isn't going to end up going the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarmy Arab Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Your Utopia sounds great - I'd love it if people were educated enough to not be racist, homophobic, etc, etc. To be fair mainded is common sense after all, isn't it? The reality is though that Political Correctness is an invasive and controlling ideaology which seeks to legislate (sometimes against all good sense) on issues such as these. It wants to tell you how you should think and what you should feel. It also puts massive barriers in the way of enterprise and business, dictating to them the sorts of people they must be employing in the guise of "equality" or "positive discrimination", thereby killing any concept of meritocracy. That approach just drags everything down to a common denominator. The lowest. Because of PC, we are now also forced by law to "respect" others' religious belief systems which leave body counts numbering millions in their wake. The sad fact of the matter is that the only possible conclusion if we continue hell-bant down this crazy PC road we're on is that we end up with a society not unlike that described by George Orwell in "1984" - one where people are afraid to speak their minds for fear of retribution. Great that people agree with you on all of this though, SA! Now you'll probably just accuse me of being "racist", "homophobic" or some other nasty type of bigot (none of which I consider myself to be) - It's the standard PC retort against someone who doesn't agree with the ideal, and is simply designed to stifle any further debate. Anyway, when I want to live in a society like that, I'll buy a one way ticket to North Korea. Until I do, forgive me if I rail against it in the UK at every opportunity. Nowhere did I suggest a utopia, just the promotion of justice.. -The most 'controlling and invasive ideology' imaginable is that of racism, or sexism, or homophbia! -which rarely make 'good sense' -PC does not want 'tell you what to think and feel' it seeks to prevent the pernicious ideology of racism which has dominated the public discouse for centuries from festering further, why should racist language be left unchallenged? Is it because it does not affect/effect you? -The wholesale adoption of positive discrimination , quota systems etc have been a defining feature of the neoliberal capitalist period, because for centuries racism, sexism, homophobia had been undeniable 'barriers to enteprise and business' by excluding huge sections of the community and making a total mockery of 'meritocracy'. -'Belief systems which leave body counts numbering millions' you can only mean the imperialist christians who's expansion and brutal domination of the globe has, and continures to be, responsible for the death and enslavement of hundreds of millions, numbers of dead that communism and facism could not hold a candle to. -1984, North Korea? So challenging racism, sexism and homophobia leads to dictatorship and mind control? That is a hysterical over reaction don't you think? The politics of fear, fear of blacks, gays, foreigners, and women, who will take over and have crack dens, mosques and mardigras on every street corner! Someone think of the children!.......etc If you really think PC is a bigger problem than xenophobia,racism, sexism, or homophobia, you need to get out more. PC is much maligned by the people who can no longer dominate the public discourse, a discourse which is in constant flux, why a challange to such social pathologies provokes such a vitriolic response from so many is for me, evidence it is necessary. If someone finds themselves in an aukward situation at work for using langauge that is not appropriate and offensive then that is a price worth paying for the very real difference PC has made to millions of peoples lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueJ Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 ...there are homophobic songs sung and chants everyweek in every ground. Are there really? How do you know this happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueJ Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 If some of the comments that surfaced on a similar thread a few years back (some of which caused a number of regular posters to leave the forum for good) are anything to go by, football still has a long way to go before homophobia (and the tactic of moaning about so-called "political correctness" to justify it) is finally left behind. I just hope this thread isn't going to end up going the same way. Are you genuinely saying that people moan about PC to justify so-called 'homophobia'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Are you genuinely saying that people moan about PC to justify so-called 'homophobia'? It happens all the time, and I've seen it happen on this forum. People express views that are homophobic, racist, whatever - and if anyone else pulls them up on it, they immediately play the "bloody PC brigade, you can't say anything these days, etc etc" card in an attempt to sneer at and belittle a view that differs from their own. Such people always start out by appearing to be hugely in favour of freedom of speech - until the inevitable point that a differing point of view comes along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neutral Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 It happens all the time, and I've seen it happen on this forum. People express views that are homophobic, racist, whatever - and if anyone else pulls them up on it, they immediately play the "bloody PC brigade, you can't say anything these days, etc etc" card in an attempt to sneer at and belittle a view that differs from their own. Such people always start out by appearing to be hugely in favour of freedom of speech - until the inevitable point that a differing point of view comes along. Case I point... Jim Davidson on that cooking show. Had a go at the gay guy on it for being effeminate et al and then claimed PC persecution for expressing his views! The idiot just could not see how wrong he was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarmy Arab Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 It happens all the time, and I've seen it happen on this forum. People express views that are homophobic, racist, whatever - and if anyone else pulls them up on it, they immediately play the "bloody PC brigade, you can't say anything these days, etc etc" card in an attempt to sneer at and belittle a view that differs from their own. Such people always start out by appearing to be hugely in favour of freedom of speech - until the inevitable point that a differing point of view comes along. Spot on Blueheaven! Freedom of speech is always trotted out to support something that is grotesque! It is a somewhat vulgar interpretation of 'freedom' that fails to recognise freedom only extends to the next person's space, if you are impinging on their freedom, your 'freedom' becomes something else entirely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarmy Arab Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Are you genuinely saying that people moan about PC to justify so-called 'homophobia'? Are you genuninely saying this does not happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueJ Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 in an attempt to sneer at and belittle a view that differs from their own. That's the major trait of the politically correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueJ Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Are you genuninely saying this does not happen! You stated that...there are homophobic songs sung and chants everyweek in every ground. I asked you how you knew that this happens. I don't know why you chose to answer with a question instead of answer the question I asked. It's quite an easy one actually - how do you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstar101 Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 You stated that...there are homophobic songs sung and chants everyweek in every ground. I asked you how you knew that this happens. I don't know why you chose to answer with a question instead of answer the question I asked. It's quite an easy one actually - how do you know? Much as he can say that the sun rises and sets every day in Mongolia....without ever having been there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODAB Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 You stated that...there are homophobic songs sung and chants everyweek in every ground. I asked you how you knew that this happens. I don't know why you chose to answer with a question instead of answer the question I asked. It's quite an easy one actually - how do you know? Actually I said it numnuts. If you're going to try and argue at least try and remember who you are arguing with. If you have ever been to a game where somebody hasn't sang/shouted/chanted something about an opposition player being gay/ a poof/ insert your own insult, then bully for you. I have never once attended a game when it hasn't happened and I've been to every ground in the SPL and First Division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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