Rodgers Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 What style of play does coyle actually want to play? I watched todays game and just wonder whats going on? They played loads of long balls today up to our strikers and time after time the ball gets headed back to our defence. You can play balls in the air when you have small strikers, put two and two together!! But when the ball is on the ground, they decide to take there time, its like no one wants to play. I can agree with some build up play, spreading the ball etc but sometimes its just a joke! They need tp start linking play up and make their play faster, i.e one twos!!!Am not saying all this because am not behind the team because i am, its just a bit worring when you keep drawing at home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford 72 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Same old story. A new season but the same shite served up. Scotland elbowed the bloke but the guy was all over the back of him. He at least deserves credit though for not making a meal of it. This kicking the ball out of play thing needs looked at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSam1884 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Jason Scotland elbowed a Hamilton player in the face. I was initially surprised that the referee had awarded us a free kick and took no action against Scotland. However, it soon became obvious that the referee hadn't seen the incident but the linesman had his flag up. As soon as you realised the linesman was bringing it to the attention of the referee, I'd be amused if anyone was genuinely shocked to see Scotland shown red. He was reacting to the mauling that he had been receiving, but that's not the way to do it and he was deservedly sent off. Not only has he let himself down, he has let his team mates down who had to play on without him, having used all of our substitutions, and who now have to play without him next week. I am struggling to find words to describe our performance today. I could start with analysing the team that Owen Coyle fielded which was wrong in my opinion, and from the very start it was the Clyde game all over again. Halliwell McManus James Stanic Lawrie Hardie Mensing Sheridan Sheerin Milne Scotland Personally, I think I would've moved Mensing back into defence and left Stanic alongside Sheerin. Moving him back would've been a better option than having him and Sheridan fighting to play the same role again, and cutting away Stanic from the attacks. I thought Sheridan had an especially poor game and could see today some of the things wee john said about him in his thread a couple of weeks ago. He has always struck me as an integral part of our midfield but today he was more of a hindrance than a help until he was rightly substituted in favour of Young. Sheerin was impressive again I felt, not really got a bad word to say about his performance today. Having Stanic removed from alongside him wasn't a great move and slowed us down on the left I felt but he improvised and used Scotland and some of the play between these two was pretty impressive. Hardie is a strange one, he doesn't impress me. I'm not going to be harsh on him because I just don't get him. I don't get what he's all about, what he brings to the team, what he's got, what he lacks. I just don't get it, I didn't see anything impressive today. He's strong though, but... Yeah, maybe someone can explain it to me. I'm quite proud of how Mensing has adapted to his new role although as previously stated, it would've been a better idea to have him at the back today with Rutkiewicz missing. Maybe if Mensing and Sheridan hadn't been playing together in the same midfield, Sheridan would've played better? Whatever the case may be, I think it's a mega bad, bad, bad idea to have these two playing together. Lawrie gets a paragraph of his own. I watched him in pre-season and thought he was garbage but Radford urged me to give him a chance, and so I bit my tongue. However, today, I was physically sickened by this player. He cannot tackle, he cannot run, he cannot pass. He's absolutely hopeless. He's playing on the right side of a five man midfield but he can neither get forward nor get back. Instead, he remains totally static and hides from the game. He's the biggest bottler I've ever clapped eyes on during a match. I'll be damned if I saw him take on a player and get to the line or even remotely near it once today. Owen Coyle rightly removed Sheridan from the middle of the park when it was clear he wasn't playing to his usual standards, but left Lawrie down the side despite it being clear he was the biggest liability on the park. I don't give a flying f'ck if he's the only player that can naturally play that position. I'd rather stick Steven Anderson or Ryan Stevenson in there any day of the week than watch someone as utterly dreadful as Andy Lawrie just because he's the only player that calls that position his own. I thought Young looked quite lively when he came on although was a bit disadvantaged coming into a side that wasn't playing well and against a team that's quite hard in the tackle. Upfront we had Tuesdays hero Milne who resorted back to his usual headless chicken style endless running today although as the weeks go by, I'm more and more convinced that it's because he's playing next to Jason Scotland and these two are just planets apart on the field. He played so well on Tuesday night, but today he was just detached. I felt quite sorry for the guy but Jason Scotland for me was having a total stormer before his dismissal. The strength and skill on this bloke is completely amazing to watch. For me, he was the standout in our side by far and yet again looked the only player with any real threat about him. If we were going to score at any point today, it was going to be him that did it. His attitude to the game has improved. Other things that annoyed me today? Set piece play, Tuesday nights was a marked improvement on anything we've produced with Sheridan and today - when he slotted straight back into the team and straight back into designated set piece taker - we became totally hopeless at them again. It's clear as day that the one person always aimed for is Kevin James. Reality check, despite having a seven foot freak in the 18 yard box at set pieces, we're about as threatening as a hamster. Worst game I've seen this season - preseason included - by a mile. The loss of McManus - which I hope isn't serious because he's solid - saw a bad day get worse and the ordering off of Scotland just put the icing on the cake. 208Saint, Victor.... You have been granted permission to moan. Moan for Britain. Two weeks into the season and we're already four points behind Gretna, but what is even more worrying is that Gretna slaughtered Hamilton. Whether you choose to read anything into that is of course your prerogative but we have issues and the blame unfortunately lies with Coyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Scotland usually looks lazy, but today was a disgrace, sent off for elbowing the Hamilton twice for no real justification, clean through on the keeper twice with no result and looking as disinterested as I have ever seen. Hardie had a go at him before he was sent off, probably gave him the excuse to go home early. Hopefully Jackson will start the next game, but it'll probably be Peaso and Milne. Save yourself the bother of reading the match report, if you read the report of the game v Clyde then this was identical. McManus punted the ball 10 yards past the striker every time he had time on the ball, Milne did nothing, which isn't his fault because what the hell can he do trying to control a 50 yard punt with 3 defenders marking him and no Saints player making any kind of supporting run. Lawrie did nothing either, fell over the advertising board when trying to take a shy and was put on his arse trying to tackle Hamiltons wee bugger of a winger, Anderson must start instead of this guy because he has shown nothing. Long way to go but the problems are obvious again, draws at home cost us the league last season and it's started once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford 72 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 I am struggling to find words to describe our performance today. I could start with analysing the team that Owen Coyle fielded which was wrong in my opinion, and from the very start it was the Clyde game all over again. Halliwell McManus James Stanic Lawrie Hardie Mensing Sheridan Sheerin Milne Scotland That would be fine but we played 4-4-2 today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSam1884 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 I'd disagree entirely about Scotland, I thought he was playing really well and was the one standout in our side until his dismissal. I appreciate that the chances he had today, he would've buried on any other day but I don't think he deliberately missed them because he "couldn't be arsed". He did a lot more running and put a lot more effort in to keeping the ball than I have ever seen him do. Many occasions today he fought for it when last season he'd have let it go, and complained to an uncaring referee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSam1884 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 That would be fine but we played 4-4-2 today! Didn't see four at the back until Scotland was sent off. Maybe we were supposed to be playing 4-4-2, but nobody told Andy Lawrie that, who sat directly opposite Sheerin all day, well... He may as well have been sitting. That's what I saw! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Disagree with you about Scotland, if moaning at the ref is what he's paid to do then he's some player. I've usually defended his lazy style but today was too much for me, didn't chase a thing down, just stood in the centre circle before making a half arsed attempt at running with the ball. He should have squared the ball to Milne when he was clean through for the first time, after what was a great turn by him to create the chance. After that he did the opposite, play the ball all the time instead of shooting. He did stand out, but because Hamiltons defenders were paying him some particularly close attention, his constant moaning didn't help him win any free kicks though. If he doesn't want to play here then he may as well go because he was a complete liability today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford 72 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Didn't see four at the back until Scotland was sent off. Maybe we were supposed to be playing 4-4-2, but nobody told Andy Lawrie that, who sat directly opposite Sheerin all day, well... He may as well have been sitting. That's what I saw! Sheerin was playing on the right of midfield in the first-half though! It was clearly a back four we were playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSam1884 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 The only liability on that park today was Andy Lawrie who is a bombscare at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSam1884 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Sheerin was playing on the right of midfield in the first-half though! It was clearly a back four we were playing. I must be totally blind then. If we were playing as you say we were, then Coyle should come in for even more criticism than I initially thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Spoons Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Radford's right. It was a back 4 we were playing and this took our best player - Stanic - out of his most effective position - wing back. Without him pushing forward as often as he normally does we seemed totally devoid of any creativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mc Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Started with my 11 picked earlier on this thread,but in 4-4-2.Don't like 3-5-2,but thought OC might have changed to this at some point,just to get more width into the team.Very disappointed with our mid-field,too one paced to hurt anyone,really emphasises how much me need genuine pace,mobility and width.Must do better!!,but early days i know.Can't see anything in Lawrie's make-up to make it obvious he's any better than Stevo,but there appears a lack of real penetration through-out the team., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watty Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Christ i am just pickin myself up from the floor, did someone say a few posts back that Steven Anderson should start a game for Saints, crikey surely we aren't that bad are we?? Hamilton came for a point and got it, we lacked invention, creativity, guile, pace and a cutting edge. And yet the width of a post stopped us from snatching an (undesrved?) win. We seem incapable of breaking teams down and like in previous seasons the 2 home draws against teams we should be beating is an ominous sign. Its certainly been our achilles heal. Desparado need to add a couple of new faces prior to the end of the window otherwise we will find Gretna out of sight by Xmas. Get Lawrie horsed and Mensing back to right back/wing back. Sheridan possibly played his worst game in a Saints shirt today, lost possession alot, set peices mince (why are we persisiting with these pointless floaty corner/free kicks??). Not a happy bunny after that lacklustre pish, why can't we play at a bit of a higher tempo? A note on Jasons sending off, was deserved yeh, he was getting a fair bit of treatment from the accies defence and midfield, so in a sense he was provoked into doing it through frustration. But surely he's got to realise that he'll have to put up with this all season long, with his World Cup jaunt and the coverage he got on the back of it he's even more a marked man and defo a target for the kickers (of whom there are many in this division). Anyway, i seem to of raised alot of questions, feck knows the answers, but out of ten todays performance merited a 2, at best, Pish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford 72 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Ok, time to put a positive spin on this... Did Halliwell have a tricky save to make? Then... Did Jason force the 'keeper into a great save from a one-on-one? Did the 'keeper make another great save from Savo from a well-worked free-kick? Did we have a goal chalked off for offside, which looked questionable? Did Hardie have the worst miss in the world? Did we hit the post? Did it take a last man block to prevent Jason bursting the net? I think if we'd scored just one of those chances today, the comments on here would be very different. If we'd scored two or three, we'd be delighted. We were rubbish but still, in the main, dominated and should have won. The problems from last season are still there, it was another easy to predict result on the Prediction League. We need a player with the ability to move at pace with the ball from the middle of the park. Hopefully he'll arrive this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 We need a player with the ability to move at pace with the ball from the middle of the park. Hopefully he'll arrive this week. I hope so too - I certainly don't think he's Derek Young anyway from what I've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford 72 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 I hope so too - I certainly don't think he's Derek Young anyway from what I've seen. It's taken him all of two weeks to be dragged down to our level! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Agreed that we had the chances to win that game, but theres not much point in saying if we'd have won that match we wouldn't be moaning- gives a bit of hope to the situation though. I think the ref had already blown for a foul on the keeper before Hardies missed sitter, the ref definately didn't signal a goal kick anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watty Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Ok, time to put a positive spin on this... Did Halliwell have a tricky save to make? Then... Did Jason force the 'keeper into a great save from a one-on-one? Did the 'keeper make another great save from Savo from a well-worked free-kick? Did we have a goal chalked off for offside, which looked questionable? Did Hardie have the worst miss in the world? Did we hit the post? Did it take a last man block to prevent Jason bursting the net? I think if we'd scored just one of those chances today, the comments on here would be very different. If we'd scored two or three, we'd be delighted. We were rubbish but still, in the main, dominated and should have won. The problems from last season are still there, it was another easy to predict result on the Prediction League. We need a player with the ability to move at pace with the ball from the middle of the park. Hopefully he'll arrive this week. 3 league games, one goal scored, none conceded, doesn't take a rocket scientist to fidgure out our big prob eh? Maybe just so pished off cos i am jus back from the game and its galling to see us fall off the pace in the league table already, 3 points next week please, please, please. Lets get this season on track!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 If we continue to play like that every week, then the season will be over long before it has really begun. I will echo some of Sam1884's comments: 1. From what i've seen, Lawrie doesn't fit into this squad. Like Sam mentioned, Stevenson would be a better candidate. He may be the only player who can "naturally" play in that position, but he needs to get a bit of go about him. He does nothing, he contributes nothing. However, I feel Coyle will be apprehensive to drop him on the basis that he's a new recruit and he may need time to adjust. I think it's only fair we give him a few more games, but we need to see something from him. 2. We would work better with a change of style; we are supposedly an attack minded team, yet we are playing with two defensive midfielders in the middle of the park (I don't even believe Simon is suitable as a DM), and a lifeless right winger. For me, Sheerin is at his best when he compliments a strong, attack minded midfield. With things the way they are, he is the sole provider, something which he doesn't respond well to. 3. I really wish he'd change the formation. We changed it today, but still seem to revert every other week. I know a change might lessen Stanic's involvement, but can he not play Left Mid? It appears as though Coyle's trying to build the team around the formation instead of trying to build the formation around the team. It's like he's trying to cram every player who should be considered a starter into the first XI, and the only way he can achieve it is through a 3-5-2! Nonetheless, I feel the potential is definitely there. Coyle just needs to discover what WORKS (not what accomodates) and stick with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSam1884 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Of course the comments on here would have been different if we'd scored two or three because to do that, you must do something right in the game. You can fluke one goal playing like that but not three. A good side would have turned us over in every game we've played so far this season, and I'm not sure that when we do eventually meet a better side than Clyde, Queens, Hamilton and the cup pish we've faced, we'll raise our game and win those matches. Our team has potential to be so much better but there are a few things hampering us fulfilling that potential and I believe that one of those is Coyles persistence with the liability Lawrie and Mensing and Sheridan sharing the same role in midfield. One or the other, and the removal of Lawrie. We have gotten worse in midfield, most notably on the right. Time for Stevenson to come back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watty Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Time for Stevenson to come back? No, No please, he has had three seasons worth of chances.....Mensing back on the right is my preferred option. Hope this is not a season to far for Shez, has struggled in both league games at McD this season, hopefully he'll prove me wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Hayley Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 well dont really know what to say about this game. There was some good football played the day but yet again we couldnt get the goal needed. was the goal offside? Andy was by far the worst player on the feild the day oweny should off taken him off he couldn't do anything the day or in other games for that matter, but as stated before he is the only player that natuarly plays that possison, I would rather start stevo than lawrie or maybe even ando for that matter......jessus did i just say ando Darren sheridan was.....well, hopeless is the only way i can put it but it wasnt his wost. Moving onto the jason incident, Yes he was geting his shirt pulled through out the 90minutes but there was nae need for the elbow in the face, so yes he did deserve the sending off but some o the hamilton players deserved yellows. We need to improve for next week and start geting points cause come on even Plastic Whistle are daying better than us............something is not right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSam1884 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Agreed that we had the chances to win that game, but theres not much point in saying if we'd have won that match we wouldn't be moaning- gives a bit of hope to the situation though. I think the ref had already blown for a foul on the keeper before Hardies missed sitter, the ref definately didn't signal a goal kick anyway. Yeah - the referee had blown for a foul on the keeper before Hardie missed that chance, it would never have counted so is completely irrelevant. Three games played, five points out of a possible 9, Gretna have taken 9 from 9. We've drawn two, won one and scored only one goal. I don't care that we've conceded none, it's not a positive when you're not scoring yourself and dropping points in a league that will run away from you if you're not careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford 72 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 One or the other, and the removal of Lawrie. We have gotten worse in midfield, most notably on the right. Time for Stevenson to come back? LAWRIE WAS PLAYING IN DEFENCE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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