Away Stand to be Knocked Down

[Broon]

I'm hopeless with my right peg, so I'd let you have that one for £200k...

I know what you mean, but hasn't GB talked in the past about a trust for the club as his legacy? That could be this, with the money put away to grow over the years.

Surely it would be more than £200k though from the cooncil? I would have thought it would have been a good whack more than that? Anyone in the know?

It's a key point though - how much money are we talking about? 10million? Or 50k? None of us would have any idea so it's difficult to comment. If the council want to spend funny money it may well be worth it. I doubt it though.

[Broon]

I dont have a problem with the deal as long as they put some sort of terrace in it's place.

I agree. But it would defeat the purpose of getting rid of the stand in the first place. I suspect that if the stand goes, people will be waving at us from their cars. Saying that, surely the way our strikers are playing it would be too dangerous to put a road that close to the pitch

[blueheaven]

If Geoff Brown and the board are genuinely interested in doing this for the sake of getting a bit of money from the council, then I for one am extremely disappointed in them. On the other hand, if this is purely a token gesture designed to get the council on-side for future developments, then that's fair enough. But, that said, if the long term goal is to use this as the first stage of relocating elsewhere, then surely the land is worth more in its entirety, than with a road and some houses plonked onto the north side? I'd far rather see Saints offer the whole lot to Tesco and get an entirely new stadium elsewhere out of it.

Taking what Geoff Brown has said about it at face value though, I have to agree with other posters that this move is disgraceful. It's very short-sighted to claim that we haven't needed all four stands in recent years, so will never need them again. The popularity of football, like all things, is cyclical, and just because attendances are down at the moment doesn't mean that won't change dramatically in the future. Saints have attracted big crowds in relatively recent years, so who's to say it won't happen again?

And what will this do for the club's other ventures - the hosting of U21 international matches, Scotland rugby matches, Challenge Cup Final, Elton John concert, Jehovah's conference etc? McDiarmid Park suddenly looks a far less enticing prospect, surely, with one of the stands ripped down?

McDiarmid Park is huge for Saints - it's something to be proud of, and something that sets us apart from the likes of Clyde, Falkirk, Partick etc. It's a terrific stadium - better than many far bigger clubs than Saints have - and this seems almost like selling the club's soul for a quick buck. Saints were UK pioneers in building the stadium in the first place - how ridiculous will it be if the club now become pioneers again by becoming the first club in the UK to build an entirely new all-seater stadium and then knock bits of it down?

Very sad news.

[101 Saint]

Geoff is an astute business man, who has never let us down. How many forumers on here are successful business men? What about the savings of having only three stands? The place is 20 years old and insurance, maintenance, sundry repairs etc will all be cheaper. I don't remember the away stand being used during u21 or women's games. I am a little sad if this is the entire truth, but I fully support Geoff.

[Scott Mc]

Tesco will relocate Dobbies to the current site of McD. In turn McD will be rebuilt by Tesco on the current Dobbies site (Probably GB construction that will actually do the building rather than tescos themselves!). The upgrade to the road will go ahead behind what is now McD but will be Dobbies. The current slip road from the bypass at dobbies will be the main route into the new stadium and leisure park. The cattle market is closing down therefore there will be opportunity for parking and also for the council to improve the towns leisure amenities at the site. Sound nuts? I am convinced that this will happen within the next 3-5 years.

[saintstevie]

And what will this do for the club's other ventures - the hosting of U21 international matches, Scotland rugby matches, Challenge Cup Final, Elton John concert, Jehovah's conference etc? McDiarmid Park suddenly looks a far less enticing prospect, surely, with one of the stands ripped down?

That's another key point - Would we lose any of these without the North Stand? I doubt it would matter for the U-21s or rugby but other stuff like the Jehovah's Witnesses is a fair point?

I suppose what we need to know is whether the North Stand makes a profit or a loss - i.e. is it used often enough to outweigh the costs it incurs? Which is a bizarre question to ask...

[101 Saint]

Remember the floodlights ain't been replaced yet. Are we on the move?

[Dooj]

It's like if someone offered you 200k for your leg. At the time you think, hmm 200k is a life changing sum of money. I could pay off my mortgage and buy a new car. Go on then - off with the leg.

Two weeks later, you realise that whilst you can still manage without your leg, and it's nice to have the cash, things were easier before you sold out. Not alot you can do about it now.

Poor analogy. I use both my legs on a daily basis - losing one would seriously affect my ability to function. The North Stand is hardly ever used, and as the club has pointed out, even in the SPL it is unlikely to be needed on a regular basis. Losing the North Stand is hardly likely to be noticed in terms of the Club's ability to function.

I can understand the argument that a three-sided stadium would look terrible but there must come a point when the amount of money on offer outweighs the aesthetic concerns.

What I really don't understand is the need to build more roads - when I have been back in Perth recently, my family are often complaining about the traffic but to me traffic flow around Perth is wonderful compared to what I have to put up with down South. I know it is all relative but I don't think that the people of Perth really have much to complain about when it comes to traffic.

For what it's worth, I don't think that this will ever happen. Geoff is just doing a bit of community PR, showing what a caring and loving individual he is, with the City's best interests at heart.

[keveyboysaint]

money grabbing ba***rd. we the people of perth have a stadi to be proud of. What about future concerts etc. Perth is set to expand in a big way in the next 20 years, if the club also brings sucess then surely crowds as well as perths population will grow. the man only sees £££ in his eyes , we are one of few clubs that run on profit.

read the article but not sure why stand would have to go the road would surely be near to touching the east/ west stands. Un ambitious club, unless geoff has reasons other than money in his mind.

[Broon]

Poor analogy. I use both my legs on a daily basis - losing one would seriously affect my ability to function. The North Stand is hardly ever used, and as the club has pointed out, even in the SPL it is unlikely to be needed on a regular basis. Losing the North Stand is hardly likely to be noticed in terms of the Club's ability to function.

You can get a prosthetic leg though, and can do 'almost' everything you could do before. The things that we will not be able to do are covered by Blueheaven's post. Yeah it seems like a good money making idea at the time and yes we can still operate as a stadium but we will not be able to do everything we could do before.

[blueheaven]

Poor analogy. I use both my legs on a daily basis - losing one would seriously affect my ability to function. The North Stand is hardly ever used, and as the club has pointed out, even in the SPL it is unlikely to be needed on a regular basis. Losing the North Stand is hardly likely to be noticed in terms of the Club's ability to function.

Possibly, but in that case I'm going to modify the analogy a little. I think it's more like saying you've injured your leg in an accident, so at the moment you're not able to do anything with it. Someone offers you X amount of money right now for the leg, along with the space it's currently occupying, and you think, "hey, it's not doing anything at the moment, it's just dingle-dangling there at the bottom of my bum... I'll have the money ta." But then, maybe, with a bit of physiotherapy and hard work, you'd actually be able to get the leg working again in the long term, if only you hadn't replaced it with a sodding road and some houses (which are all very nice and everything, but aren't of much help when it comes to trying to walk around)?

[Noose76]

If you've ever watched big brother, you'll recognise this bloke.

http://apologete.com/WhiteGorillaSmile.jpg

[pringles]

I think that for over twenty years we've trusted Geoff to keep the club financially sound and indeed in existence.The man has a genius for spotting deals which is why he's worth what he is and with the exception of Cosgrove and Muzz none of the rest of us are millionaires!

So why don't we leave him to progress his proposals at the end of the day nothing may happen

[Dooj]

Possibly, but in that case I'm going to modify the analogy a little. I think it's more like saying you've injured your leg in an accident, so at the moment you're not able to do anything with it. Someone offers you X amount of money right now for the leg, along with the space it's currently occupying, and you think, "hey, it's not doing anything at the moment, it's just dingle-dangling there at the bottom of my bum... I'll have the money ta." But then, maybe, with a bit of physiotherapy and hard work, you'd actually be able to get the leg working again in the long term, if only you hadn't replaced it with a sodding road and some houses (which are all very nice and everything, but aren't of much help when it comes to trying to walk around)?

Okay, I am not quite convinced that my leg (injured or otherwise) is to me, what the North Stand is to St Johnstone football Club, but I do accept that just because the North Stand is not being used much at the moment, doesn't logically mean that it wouldn't be needed in the future.

However, just because the North Stand might be needed in the future doesn't mean that it will be needed in the future and this is what GB has to make a judgment on. I am not convinced by your argument that football crowds are 'cyclical'. Of course, average attendances go up and down over the years in reponse to many factors, but there is no guarantee whatsoever that attendances will ever rise again to their peak of a decade ago (or whenever it was). Given that we have a fairly steady long-term drop in attendances at McDiarmid, I don't think that it is such a bad prediction that we won't need the North Stand. I assume that GB knows about the potential benefits of knocking it down and the potential costs in terms of loss of income from other events and that he will weigh these up. It would be foolish of him to hold onto an asset if the risk attached to cashing it in is pretty small. While I might disagree with GB's approach to many things, I am confident that as a businessman he will analyse all the relevant factors in considerable detail (whereas we can only speculate) before making any decision.

[dee4life]

I think you would be ruining a decent ground,just my opinion though.

[Noose76]

I think that for over twenty years we've trusted Geoff to keep the club financially sound and indeed in existence.The man has a genius for spotting deals which is why he's worth what he is and with the exception of Cosgrove and Muzz none of the rest of us are millionaires!

Muzz a millionaire? He must of made his money in the waffle industry

[mainstand]

Are we not getting our knickers in a twist over nothing here?

Firstly I think Saints would get a financial gain from the sale of the farmland behind the East Stand, in addition to this Saints are in effect saying if you buy that to build a road we might also be able to accommodate you by knocking down the away stand, which would not really affect us crowd wise as very few crowds in the SPL ever beat 8500. If worse came to worse a main stand filled to the roof with Saints fans and 2 other sides filled with OF or Dundee Utd fans would still give us a good atmosphere.

Saints may also be playing a very good PR game here with making this public. If the Council are thinking of making compulsory purchase orders.

[myDarlingBeefeater]

Tesco will relocate Dobbies to the current site of McD. In turn McD will be rebuilt by Tesco on the current Dobbies site (Probably GB construction that will actually do the building rather than tescos themselves!). The upgrade to the road will go ahead behind what is now McD but will be Dobbies. The current slip road from the bypass at dobbies will be the main route into the new stadium and leisure park. The cattle market is closing down therefore there will be opportunity for parking and also for the council to improve the towns leisure amenities at the site. Sound nuts? I am convinced that this will happen within the next 3-5 years.

I don't think that sounds nuts at all. I don't think Geoff would knock down just one stand & ruin McD. I think he's signaling to the council/ Tesco/ whoever that he's up for a deal & a smaller ground on the site of the mart with built in sporting leisure facilities (like a Healthworks attached to the Main stand, say) for both the club & public to use would be a steady source of income for the club. That would be his kind of legacy.

[Scobby_SJFC]

For me I just cant see why the stnd has to be brought down, the stand and the land we have directly behind the stand must be around 2-6 meters perhaps? I just dont see why the new road or whatever cannot go through the trees, as I imagine they wiull have to get removed anyway?

Finally as BH said, the staium we have is very important to the club, because a stadium with 3 stands looks amature, and I doubt Elton would have played here, the rugby I doubt would have came here, as with 4 stands reguardless of astetics, size etc it makes a team look legit and proper, and is much more markletable than a ground such as firhill, broadwood etc

Final final point if the north stand went and away fans were in the O stand, would the 'singers' move to the other end of the east stand??

[SlickDT]

St Johnstone has been run for over twenty years by a man who has proved time and time again to put the club first and run it VERY successfully.

Not a single person on here knows the reasoning behind what Geoff Brown has said- nor will they until whatever deals are done, are done!

Do you think a successful business man like Brown would make a decision based on a short-term advantage, and not be able to see the long-term plan!? Do you think he would risk losing the U-21 and women games, future concerts (such as Elton John) and JW conventions if he didn't think it was worthwhile!?

None of us want a three stand stadium, more out of pride than anything, it's good to have stadium to be proud of, but I don't for one minute believe any decision would be made that would be to the harm of SJFC. Maybe I'm being naive, but past history points to this.

I think there's more to meet they eye with this one, and I think it would be good for people to give GB the benefit of the doubt, before whatever events take place.

[saintstevie]

Finally as BH said, the staium we have is very important to the club, because a stadium with 3 stands looks amature, and I doubt Elton would have played here, the rugby I doubt would have came here, as with 4 stands reguardless of astetics, size etc it makes a team look legit and proper, and is much more markletable than a ground such as firhill, broadwood etc

They have the rugby at Firhill though too don't they? Glasgow play in front of crowds of about 4-5,000 there (I'm told! I'm not really one for the egg-chasing), and I'm sure they've held U-21 games at Broadwood (although I could be wrong about that) so maybe you can market a three stand stadium?

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Build a sodden TUNNEL.You drive down from the Crief road and the hill at the back of the stand has a tunnel through it, then instead of a bridge over the motorway,you build an underpass.Who says you cannae have your cake an eat it.You then have a road and still have a proper looking Stadium..

Knocking down the North Stand is just plain stupid.

[Scobby_SJFC]

They have the rugby at Firhill though too don't they? Glasgow play in front of crowds of about 4-5,000 there (I'm told! I'm not really one for the egg-chasing), and I'm sure they've held U-21 games at Broadwood (although I could be wrong about that) so maybe you can market a three stand stadium?

I thought the only reason they moved to firhill was becuase Hewingdon (Sp?) was falling apart and firhill was only viable alternative

They have also held u21 gamesa everywhere, dont they just take the games to places like england when webley was being built?

am not syaing a 3 stand stadium isnt total marketable, but is it less

[ancientsaint]

Build a sodden TUNNEL.You drive down from the Crief road and the hill at the back of the stand has a tunnel through it, then instead of a bridge over the motorway,you build an underpass.Who says you cannae have your cake an eat it.You then have a road and still have a proper looking Stadium..

Knocking down the North Stand is just plain stupid.

Councillor Ghost !!!

NAH too sensible ( mmmm !!)

[mainstand]

I thought the only reason they moved to firhill was becuase Hewingdon (Sp?) was falling apart and firhill was only viable alternative

They have also held u21 gamesa everywhere, dont they just take the games to places like england when webley was being built?

am not syaing a 3 stand stadium isnt total marketable, but is it less

Scotland rugby b and u21 internationals are played at Falkirk, with less than 3 stands. Having a 3 stand ground would possibly be more advantageous for concerts as it would be easier building the stage etc.