I Support Liam Craig

[Bally]

Not often any manager has the balls to sub in the first half. Lately from memory I can only think of ...Fergie... and... oh The Special One. Others fail to do it and lose. It takes a special type.

Oh and Del. God enough for me.

Intentional??:laugh:

Wait until he at least wins a trophy first

[101 Saint]

I cannot recall exact times but, in the first half, yes.

Why do you believe McInnes was so wrong today? If next week Liam starts and plays with his head in the sand, sulking around then maybe it was wrong of McInnes. You aren't in Liam's head, maybe he know sees what he done wrong and is eager to get into training on Monday and work his ar*e off to get into the starting 11 next week...

Btw, I'm not looking for an arguement because you are the great controversial 101. I just feel that in this instance McInnes made the right call at the right time.

I'm not defending Liam's actions. I do not doubt that he will work harder next week than ever before. I doubt that he will ever repeat his performance.

I think the same would be true had he been withdrawn at half-time and been laid into in front of his team-mates.

*I am neither great, nor controversial.

[Bally]

I'm not defending Liam's actions. I do not doubt that he will work harder next week than ever before. I doubt that he will ever repeat his performance.

I think the same would be true had he been withdrawn at half-time and been laid into in front of his team-mates.

*I am neither great, nor controversial.

Right, so are you saying that whether he waited 15 minutes or subbed him there and then, Liam's attitude would remain the same come Monday morning? So exactly what is this debate about? McInnes embarrassing Liam? If Liam was acting petulant, surely getting Davidson on, raring to go is only of benefit to the team.

[101 Saint]

Right, so are you saying that whether he waited 15 minutes or subbed him there and then, Liam's attitude would remain the same come Monday morning? So exactly what is this debate about? McInnes embarrassing Liam? If Liam was acting petulant, surely getting Davidson on, raring to go is only of benefit to the team.

Yes. It was childish and petulant - he lowered himself to Liam's level for no benefit.

A roasting and being subbed in front of team mates would have had a more sobering effect. It would also have been private. The best decisions are taken with cold blood.

[Mike180279]

What I will say is he obviously calmed down pretty quickly or he might just have trudged up the tunnel.

You cant take that fight out of players, it would make them a lesser player like when Hardie got fined at Dens last year. Whilst he was fined I think secretly Del expected that reaction!

I can see both sides of the argument, its all about how the player responds now!

[Bally]

Yes. It was childish and petulant - he lowered himself to Liam's level for no benefit.

A roasting and being subbed in front of team mates would have had a more sobering effect. It would also have been private. The best decisions are taken with cold blood.

You don't think that doing it only in front of teammates would have given him a type of 'Jack-the-Lad' persona. Whereas doing it in front of 3500-odd people would have a more "sobering effect" and brought him down to Earth with one hell of a crash??

Anyway, must head, good chat

[McD]

Intentional??:laugh:

Wait until he at least wins a trophy first

Hook, line, wrong rod:roll:

[auld reekie saint]

Liam Craig was today humiliated by an inept little man who answers to the name of Derek McInnes.

We have had a great season and Del has done a great job.To describe him as inept is inaccurate.

However to describe him as an inept little man is insulting to Del as a person.

Are you 101 the same genius who ranted against Del during a certain match against Rangers where we went on to win 4-1?

[101 Saint]

You don't think that doing it only in front of teammates would have given him a type of 'Jack-the-Lad' persona. Whereas doing it in front of 3500-odd people would have a more "sobering effect" and brought him down to Earth with one hell of a crash??

Anyway, must head, good chat

No. I would have tore a strip off him and demanded an apology. I would also have fined him. Depending on his reaction he may well have stayed on but he would be training tomorrow at 0800 in Perth.

His withdrawal hampered Del's freedom of subs so it handicapped Del.

There are two losers and no winners in this scenario. Liam should have been the only loser. It was a good chat because you took me on and debated the subject at hand without resorting to name calling or digressing. Thank you for debating with respect. It was a pleasure.

[101 Saint]

We have had a great season and Del has done a great job.To describe him as inept is inaccurate.

However to describe him as an inept little man is insulting to Del as a person.

Are you 101 the same genius who ranted against Del during a certain match against Rangers where we went on to win 4-1?

He is inept because he handicapped the team to humiliate a player.

He is little because he acted like a little boy. Excatly as Liam did.

He got it massively wrong against Rangers because he is inept.

[auld reekie saint]

He is little because he acted like a little boy. Excatly as Liam did.

Then you shouldn't have finished your original post by saying about Liam "chin up big man"

[101 Saint]

Then you shouldn't have finished your original post by saying about Liam "chin up big man"

He's bigger than me; physically, morally and mentally.

[Scobby_SJFC]

Liam Liam Liam

[Kyle]

For what it's worth, I think both sides have a point regarding this incident. If Liam was disrespecting the manager's decision, then he was rightfully punished. I agree though that doing it before half time, and in full view of the spectators, may have been a mistake. Liam's got a great attitude and will though, so I think that, if he is feeling hard done by, he will come back from this even better than before. Some people dream of a team of Dave Mackays. I'd rather have a team of Liam Craigs.

[slf]

101 is a frustrated gayer

[Kilgour]

For what it's worth, I think both sides have a point regarding this incident. If Liam was disrespecting the manager's decision, then he was rightfully punished. I agree though that doing it before half time, and in full view of the spectators, may have been a mistake. Liam's got a great attitude and will though, so I think that, if he is feeling hard done by, he will come back from this even better than before. Some people dream of a team of Dave Mackays. I'd rather have a team of Liam Craigs.

IF Del is expected to hide his anger till half-time then surely Liam should do the same.You cant have the tail wagging the dog.In a week or two no-one will remember this incident,Liam will be older and wiser and Del will have gained some respect not lost it.Because there are only two people who KNOW what was said and KNOW what was meant by it lets leave it to them.

[Guest Harry Curran's Love child]

On the pitch. That approach wouldn't have worked today.

Now you are accepting that whilst you have a perfect attitude to your club manager, your team mates do not. Have any of them ever been subbed within 15 minutes of half time because they were disrespectful?

I agree that some managers would have waited until half time but there two factors that you have to bare in mind in this particular instance

1) From where I was, Liam was having a poor game and was at fault for the goal

2) Del let hem know about this ( I think Doobs did too) and Liam reacted and answered in a manner that suggested that he wasn't particularly bothered (but I will agree with you that his act of petulance was taken in the heat of the moment).

Del has a call to make:

1) Leave Liam on, a player who is seemingly not up for the game or willing to take on board his managers instructions for whatever reason. A decision that may cost further goals in this game.

2) Sub him and send a strong signal to Liam and the rest of the team on and off the pitch that he is the manager and when you are on that pitch he demands commitment, effort and his players to listen to instructions, as any football manager or manager in any other walk of life is entitled to.

I think the decision is being blown out of proportion because Del took what is not the most common course of action ie nothing.

I agree with Bally and yourself too, good debating it and seeing if from a players perspective and well worth discussing

[Hazel1884]

You, like your allies, are ignoring the options available to Mr McInnes. I'm still waiting to learn why the incident couldn't have been handled in private.

Whether Del did it the way he did, or whether he waited and hooked him at half time it would have made minimal difference.

A good manager should deal with a problem as it arises and nip it in the bud as soon as possible. During a football match you do not have the luxury to ask your team member to go into a room and have a discussion about it.

3000 fans had seen this incident happen and Liam gesturing like that is downright disrespectful, McInnes was right to do what he did. It could have been dealt with at half time 'in private' but I think Liam would have been quite demoralised if he had been personally ripped to shreds in front of his team.

As much as this has been blown out of proportion, the real test of Liam's character and Del's man-management is now. We've not seen the hot-headed side of Craig for a long time. However, i suspect this has already been sorted out prior to leaving the stadium last night and this thread is another waste of time apart from attacking Sir Del.

Edited April 18, 2010 by Hazel1884

[101 Saint]

I agree that some managers would have waited until half time but there two factors that you have to bare in mind in this particular instance

1) From where I was, Liam was having a poor game and was at fault for the goal

2) Del let hem know about this ( I think Doobs did too) and Liam reacted and answered in a manner that suggested that he wasn't particularly bothered (but I will agree with you that his act of petulance was taken in the heat of the moment).

Anderson was at fault for the goal. It was fodder for his haters. Liam had been as involved as Morris and Millar. I thought he was doing okay. Nevertheless, his contribution is irrelevant. His lack of respect merited punishment

Del has a call to make:

1) Leave Liam on, a player who is seemingly not up for the game or willing to take on board his managers instructions for whatever reason. A decision that may cost further goals in this game.

2) Sub him and send a strong signal to Liam and the rest of the team on and off the pitch that he is the manager and when you are on that pitch he demands commitment, effort and his players to listen to instructions, as any football manager or manager in any other walk of life is entitled to.

I think the decision is being blown out of proportion because Del took what is not the most common course of action ie nothing.

I agree with Bally and yourself too, good debating it and seeing if from a players perspective and well worth discussing

I think it's wrong to say that. There were only 15 minutes to go and we looked like conceding, all game long. Liam was not refusing to do his job, he felt he was being singled out unfairly.

I remember one player (cannae mind the feckers name) that I couldn't abide getting such a bollocking from Doc (who I adore) for allegedly allowing Dunfermline a shot on goal during a reserve game last season. Doc was wrong but the player took the lecture. He took it with a pinch of salt but made it look like he was listening. You might call him clever, I call him dishonest.

I still remain convinced that the best punishment would have taken place in the dressing room. Make an example of him in front of his team mates. That would have hushed up the incident and really strengthened Del's grip on the squad. As I said last night, many of his team mates would not have witnessed the full incident and that may have lead to confusion regarding our shape or the reason for the sub. Such distractions are not necessary.

[McD]

Del should be Manager of the year - yesterday he showed why.

[Broon]

Craigs reaction to being subbed confirmed Del was 100% correct. He looked like a player who knew he was in the wrong and accepted his managers decision. Incident over.

[101 Saint]

Craigs reaction to being subbed confirmed Del was 100% correct. He looked like a player who knew he was in the wrong and accepted his managers decision. Incident over.

He would have also known he was in the wrong in the dressing room, he would also have accepted it in the dressing room and he would also have had the opportunity to apologise to his manager and his team mates in the dressing room.

[Broon]

He would have also known he was in the wrong in the dressing room, he would also have accepted it in the dressing room and he would also have had the opportunity to apologise to his manager and his team mates in the dressing room.

Leaving him on for another 5 minutes was a risk considering he had lost the plot. Deserved the hook and he knows it - its over and he'll be back in the next team.

[The Inspiration]

The phrase "do as I say, not as I do" is relevant here I believe.

Del knows Liam is extremely passionate and cannot honestly expect to shout and swear at him without getting a reaction.

He uses this approace regularly with certain players and knows it works. This is the first time I have known Del to use this approach with Liam and it backfired. Both will regret their actions.

All I will say is if Cup-tie had the same amount of blame for a goal as Liam did yesterday it would be: "Come on Dave Mackay, you better get than next time son. You know you will" from Del

Great Man Manager who lost it in the heat of the moment yesterday

[mainstand]

The phrase "do as I say, not as I do" is relevant here I believe.

Del knows Liam is extremely passionate and cannot honestly expect to shout and swear at him without getting a reaction.

He uses this approace regularly with certain players and knows it works. This is the first time I have known Del to use this approach with Liam and it backfired. Both will regret their actions.

All I will say is if Cup-tie had the same amount of blame for a goal as Liam did yesterday it would be: "Come on Dave Mackay, you better get than next time son. You know you will" from Del

Great Man Manager who lost it in the heat of the moment yesterday

Sorry Inspiration but that is nonsence!! Del has ripped into Liam on a regular basis as has Tony Doc. At no time before has he reacted in the way he did on Saturday.