dunblanemike Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 http://www.externalrelations.stir.ac.uk/news/news_stories/index.php#football Here's your chance to put your question to the big-wigs. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 It makes total sense that the greatest university in the world should push for sporting excellence and a revolution in Scottish football away from the finianciers and back to the grass roots. We have just drifted, it's now time for direction. Mind you I've heard a few of these things on the radio and they just totally lack direction with no final conclusions. I realise it is an ideas forum but we really need someone who can grab the game by the scruff of the neck, a Tsar, and I nominate Alex Ferguson at the end of this his retirement season. It needs experience and an international outlook. Many people don't realise that Jock Stein spent time in Italy before returning to Scotland to have major success. One of the biggest problems is that the generation of the last 20 years don't think there's much wrong because it's what they're used to - up and at them football from a defensive base is all you need. One of the biggest improvements I've seen this season is there appears to be more emphasis on attack compared to the last time we were in the top league. Lots of small enclosed playing areas (instead of putting up another set of flats) close to main residential areas is the first step. Big pitches are a waste of time for the 5 to 15 age groups. The title of the thread hits it on the head because there is a doubt whether many people want change or care, the status quo is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainstand Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Needs to be change at grassroots level. We have killed off the boys club football that provoded the players 15-20 years ago, I would: Scrap or limit the number of pro youth players in Scottish football at anything below u16 level Provide facilities free to boys clubs that are registered through the sfa Increase the number of g3 parks Open up school parks for kids to use at weekends Pro clubs should be forced to help youth/boys clubs Get councils to spend the money they do on pro clubs on youth football SFA should train coaches free of charge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bertrand Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 I think we need to completely revolutionise our coaching techniques - its clear that the skills being taught to the kids aren't making technically gifted players, rather workhorses. Take kids who want to be good at Defending, Midfield, Attack or GK and put them together and teach them skills for those positions, instead of a one size fits all technique. Dont get me wrong, you would also have training where they all work together but I think we need to put more emphasis on the inidividual skill sets required. Train all the kids to be good technically until a certain age where they show promise in an individual position (this will avoid having nothing but strikers) - then give them specific training in that position, combined with team based training. I just dont think the system works at present and the coaching techniques aren't giving us top quality players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSaint Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 We are a small country, teeming with unhealthy individuals, with not much of an athletic history, full of dingy booze-heads with very little too look forward too other than getting bleeshed at the weekend. We are shite as a football team, shite as a sporting nation and it isn't going to change in our generation. Best course of action is to avoid comparing us and just get on with being Shite, Scottish and proud of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) I just dont think the system works at present and the coaching techniques aren't giving us top quality players. Totally agree, and it's a double-edged sword at the moment because not only do Scottish players seem to be getting worse, but a lot of other countries are getting better. If you look around the other European qualifying groups, many of the teams occupying or challenging for the top 2 positions would have been considered cannon fodder 10-20 years ago, and there are quite a few others who didn't even exist until recently: any bunch from Hungary, Switzerland, Greece, Latvia, Slovakia, Northern Ireland, Slovenia, Poland, Bosnia and Ukraine could/will all end up doing better than Scotland in the current round of World Cup qualifiers. Outside of Europe you've also got teams like North Korea, Australia and Ghana now going to the World Cup, while it looks like Scotland won't make it. I think there are so many different factors at the root of it, though, that I really struggle to see any way of turning it round, sort of simply getting a lucky short-term fix by appointing a really good manager who happens to have an incredible ability for getting a lot out of below-average players. Beyond that, I think league set-up, attitudes, coaching techniques, youth development strategy, the Old Firm as a body and the general national disinterest in maintaining a healthy lifestyle all have a lot to do with it. And of course Scotland's a small country with no real right to demand or expect success, but there seem to be an increasing number of small countries out there nowadays who are producing footballers that are far, far more technically gifted than Scotland's lot (just look at how technically brilliant a guy like Goran Stanic was, for example). But people have been saying these things for years; pretty much every time Scotland have suffered a significant loss or failed to qualify for something since France 98, there's been lots of talk about revolutionising the game, followed by the announcement of various think tanks who never seem to come up with anything that makes a difference. I'd love to think it would be different this time, but I can guarantee that it won't be. Edited September 9, 2009 by blueheaven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunblanemike Posted September 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 There are some great ideas coming from you guys....as well as putting them on here why don't you get tickets for this event at Stirling. You know it makes sense! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee john Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 We are a small country, teeming with unhealthy individuals, with not much of an athletic history, full of dingy booze-heads with very little too look forward too other than getting bleeshed at the weekend. We are shite as a football team, shite as a sporting nation and it isn't going to change in our generation. Best course of action is to avoid comparing us and just get on with being Shite, Scottish and proud of it. what a load of tosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noose76 Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 I echo wee john's comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25e Ainslie Place Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 We are a small country, teeming with unhealthy individuals, with not much of an athletic history, full of dingy booze-heads with very little too look forward too other than getting bleeshed at the weekend. We are shite as a football team, shite as a sporting nation and it isn't going to change in our generation. Best course of action is to avoid comparing us and just get on with being Shite, Scottish and proud of it. Sounds a bit familiar. As a wise man with no tie once said...and i quote... Tommy: Doesn't it make you proud to be Scottish? Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: It's SHITE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the ****ing Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete assholes. It's a SHITE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any ****ing difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintee4life Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Needs to be change at grassroots level. We have killed off the boys club football that provoded the players 15-20 years ago, I would: Scrap or limit the number of pro youth players in Scottish football at anything below u16 level Provide facilities free to boys clubs that are registered through the sfa Increase the number of g3 parks Open up school parks for kids to use at weekends Pro clubs should be forced to help youth/boys clubs Get councils to spend the money they do on pro clubs on youth football SFA should train coaches free of chargeYou missed one vital thing out. Proper coaches who could play the game the right way and not guys who are on an ego trip and like to hear their own voice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintee4life Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 I think we need to completely revolutionise our coaching techniques - its clear that the skills being taught to the kids aren't making technically gifted players, rather workhorses. Take kids who want to be good at Defending, Midfield, Attack or GK and put them together and teach them skills for those positions, instead of a one size fits all technique. Dont get me wrong, you would also have training where they all work together but I think we need to put more emphasis on the inidividual skill sets required. Train all the kids to be good technically until a certain age where they show promise in an individual position (this will avoid having nothing but strikers) - then give them specific training in that position, combined with team based training. I just dont think the system works at present and the coaching techniques aren't giving us top quality players.100% correct and lets get rid of the largs mafia and jobs for the boys culture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bertrand Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 100% correct and lets get rid of the largs mafia and jobs for the boys culture Yeah it appears that there are actual individuals with the SFA or one of the other 90 organisations that control our game who would rather protect their own position or guarantee their old boys culture than actually make a tangeable beneift to our game through change. Its the same story in Westminster as well - until someone lit a fire under them about their expenses it would never have actually changed. Old boys culture, protect your own interests etc - The SFA reeks of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 100% correct and lets get rid of the largs mafia and jobs for the boys culture Yeah I agree. We qualified for five World Cup Finals in a row starting after 1970 until 1990 and since 1990 we've only qualified for one and we got beat 3-0 by Morrocco. Something's gone wrong. Here are some good hearted adults coaching kids in Aberdeen and supported by Aberdeen FC but dismissed by the SFA spokesman near the end of the video who says everything's fine, no problem, it's all going to come good. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sfnc3kQ6LA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sfnc3kQ6LA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingermunkie Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Mine is more a question than a suggestion: "with a number of scottish players defecting to play for the Republic, do you feel that there is/was anything that the SFA could have done to ensure that scottish talent was encouraged to remain in the Scottish national system or do you feel that there are other socio-political factors that couldn't be over come?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainstand Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Yeah I agree. We qualified for five World Cup Finals in a row starting after 1970 until 1990 and since 1990 we've only qualified for one and we got beat 3-0 by Morrocco. Something's gone wrong. Here are some good hearted adults coaching kids in Aberdeen and supported by Aberdeen FC but dismissed by the SFA spokesman near the end of the video who says everything's fine, no problem, it's all going to come good. No longer dismissed and actually embraced by many professional clubs who are putting their own coaches through the Coerver coaching courses. The SFA have also brought coaches in to help teach youth coaches the same basics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Mine is more a question than a suggestion: "with a number of scottish players defecting to play for the Republic, do you feel that there is/was anything that the SFA could have done to ensure that scottish talent was encouraged to remain in the Scottish national system or do you feel that there are other socio-political factors that couldn't be over come?" Something changed in the 1980s' in Glasgow and the west coast but maybe there was capacity for it for years. There was definitely socio political factors which resulted in various blocks - the Scottish only block, the British Unionist Monarchist block and the Irish block, the last two being a total reflection of the problems in Northern Ireland. The first two will back Scotland although the British Unionist block don't like Scotland when it suits them and will tell you so e.g. when Barry Ferguson was suspended. The Irish block live in Scotland but think they are Irish even after five generations or more i.e. their loyalties are with Ireland but their lives have been spent growing up in Scotland. I said 1980's because when I was a kid the OF were pro Scottish and there was less division. In fact all of the team that won the European Cup (Champions League), probably the best club team I've ever seen, were Scottish and all played for Scotland at one time or other. Rangers won the European Cup Winners Cup and most of their players had a stint with Scotland and all our players who spent their youth playing football in the streets and then went south to play in England were Scottish. So times have changed and we've lost Aiden McGeady who definitely looks more Scottish than Irish since he is similar to players that have come out of here in the past and maybe that's because he was born in a Scottish hospital, went to school in Scottish schools, lived a Scottish kid's life, joined a Scottish football team and then decided to play for Ireland. Odd to say the least. The answer to your question is yes there are socio polital factors but could he have been persuaded to play for Scotland? I don't know. We'll just have to get on with the 90% of us and put in new changes at youth level, especially 5-15 age group which is much more important and maybe we will catch the Aiden McGeady's earlier and they'll want to play for Scotland. We still had Jimmy Johnstone (friend of Robert Duvall and who the IRA wanted to kill at the 1974 World Cup Finals ), Kenny Dalgleish, Alan Hansen, Graeme Souness, Joe Jordan, Denis Law and many many more who were proud to be Scottish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 No longer dismissed and actually embraced by many professional clubs who are putting their own coaches through the Coerver coaching courses. The SFA have also brought coaches in to help teach youth coaches the same basics. Mainstand you've been telling me everything's all right for 10 years. You must work for te SFA. Personally I think that video pointed out the major problem and that is for a small populated nation the world percentage watching tv/video and computer games affects us more in terms of outdoor games. That is why I believe in lots of enclosed playing areas and accessable to most homes is the way forward for them to recover the "playing in the streets" culture of the past. If you walk around Barcelona and New York you will see them and the fences are high so the ball doesn't leave he areas. Scouts can then go around these areas and draw potential candidates into their club schemes a couple of nights a week after which they can return to their local play areas. Access to facilities is the big problem - Andy Murray wouldn't have been where he is if the nearest tennis court hadn't been on his door step. They need to nurture competitiveness and ball skills against each other at an early age before coaching. The creation of enclosed play areas has to be directed by the Scottish government to the local councils as a national effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bertrand Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 So times have changed and we've lost Aiden McGeady who definitely looks more Scottish than Irish since he is similar to players that have come out of here in the past and maybe that's because he was born in a Scottish hospital, went to school in Scottish schools, lived a Scottish kid's life, joined a Scottish football team and then decided to play for Ireland. Odd to say the least. The answer to your question is yes there are socio polital factors but could he have been persuaded to play for Scotland? I don't know. The guy is Irish! He is from Irish stock, and promised them that even though he was raised here, he would still represent Ireland. If you were born in England but chose to play for Scotland due to the fact you were of scottish blood, would you thik twice about it, or would that just be the natural reaction as thats what you perceive your nationality to be? Fair enough we can moan about it because he's a good footballer - but if I was in the same boat and asked to represent England only because I was born there rather than my blood line then there would be no chance. I think the McCarthy situation is a bit different, he was overlooked by Scotland and took the hump apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 The guy is Irish! He is from Irish stock, and promised them that even though he was raised here, he would still represent Ireland. If you were born in England but chose to play for Scotland due to the fact you were of scottish blood, would you thik twice about it, or would that just be the natural reaction as thats what you perceive your nationality to be? Fair enough we can moan about it because he's a good footballer - but if I was in the same boat and asked to represent England only because I was born there rather than my blood line then there would be no chance. I think the McCarthy situation is a bit different, he was overlooked by Scotland and took the hump apparently. McGeady is Scottish! He was born in Glasgow. The problem is that the Irish community have never integrated and also their brains persuade them that they are still Irish post 70's <bejaabers tis amazing> - can't remember anyone farting around like that before the 80's. If my parents had come here from America to work and I was born in the PRI and grew up in Perth with my friends and girlfriends and schools and the joined Saints and the USA came calling - I'd just piss off from all I knew? http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=38265 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainstand Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Mainstand you've been telling me everything's all right for 10 years. You must work for te SFA. Personally I think that video pointed out the major problem and that is for a small populated nation the world percentage watching tv/video and computer games affects us more in terms of outdoor games. That is why I believe in lots of enclosed playing areas and accessable to most homes is the way forward for them to recover the "playing in the streets" culture of the past. If you walk around Barcelona and New York you will see them and the fences are high so the ball doesn't leave he areas. Scouts can then go around these areas and draw potential candidates into their club schemes a couple of nights a week after which they can return to their local play areas. Access to facilities is the big problem - Andy Murray wouldn't have been where he is if the nearest tennis court hadn't been on his door step. They need to nurture competitiveness and ball skills against each other at an early age before coaching. The creation of enclosed play areas has to be directed by the Scottish government to the local councils as a national effort. Said they were now embracing it, not that it was okay, We now have 3 3g parks in clackmannanshire at local schools and in one kids were able to get into it when it was not being used. Stories are that the nets have been burst, part of the park burnt etc. There is a total lack of respect for equipment and that is a big problem, you can build as many small playing area as you want, if the kids show it no respect it will get destroyed. In saying that, however, the councils should be opening these 3g parks for anyone to use and employing a guard or supervisor to keep an eye on them. Kids then get access to good surfaces, get exercise and improve their skills. The SFA run different squads. regional and district etc. the kids go for trials and go through a selection process, at the end of the day the boys selected for regional squad then get told taht they have to pay for their inclusion in the squad and parents are asked to pay up front for 10 week blocks. Absolutely incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 In saying that, however, the councils should be opening these 3g parks for anyone to use and employing a guard or supervisor to keep an eye on them. Kids then get access to good surfaces, get exercise and improve their skills. Exactly. If you have the enclosed play areas I was thinking about they are multi-purpose and numerous in every area. They don't have to be big and planners would have tio use their imagination and skills but they should be a meeting place for the kids where they can just start playing football. I can't think of anything that could be vandalled in the play areas that I am thinking of but these parks yiu're talking about are a grade up on that but I'm talking about enclosed play areas in all residential areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainstand Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Exactly. If you have the enclosed play areas I was thinking about they are multi-purpose and numerous in every area. They don't have to be big and planners would have tio use their imagination and skills but they should be a meeting place for the kids where they can just start playing football. I can't think of anything that could be vandalled in the play areas that I am thinking of but these parks yiu're talking about are a grade up on that but I'm talking about enclosed play areas in all residential areas. They did build a 5-a-side pitch with a brick wall round it. Great wee pitch with goals and it was lit. This was about 20 years ago and they actually wrecked it knocked down the walls stole the goals etc. I know the small parks you are talking about and yes they would be ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finners Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 most of scottish footballs problems lead back to inbalance of support, stop the gloryhunters, stop the stem of the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 They did build a 5-a-side pitch with a brick wall round it. Great wee pitch with goals and it was lit. This was about 20 years ago and they actually wrecked it knocked down the walls stole the goals etc. I know the small parks you are talking about and yes they would be ideal. I'm talking about this kinda thing - Seven or eight in Letham, very little to vandalise and of course in every area of the city and throughout the country. That kind of surface is ok and the area is transparent to the public walking past. The kids will treat it like their bit of property and hopefully it will replace the street culture we were brought up with. It's all about numbers playing at the bottom of the pyramid, not just a few like today, and it's about getting used to the ball as part of you playing and competing with other kids. I'm sure parents would prefer to let their kids go along to a play area rather than not know where they are. At the bottom level it gets them fit but as that generation goes forward the few that can make it will be of top quality due to repetition (playing regularly) and once they combine being coached with playing with their friends things may open up for them later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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