ex-montrosesaintee Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Not sure if this belongs in Saints Chat or not, but my questions does. I see a developer has submitted a Proposal of Application Notice for a new 55,000sqft supermarket 'next to Mcdiarmid Park' (55,000sqft is a little smaller than Tesco i suspect, but a good sized store. Would need about a 350-400 space car park). Do Saints own the adjacent land, on which I assume this must be located? The developer will have to hold public consultation events before making a planning application. Be useful if someone local goes then they could maybe fill in the details. Even if Saints don't own the land, I wonder how access to the new store will work? Forgive me if this is a red herring and not relevant to Saints chat, but being far away i wasn't clear on the exact site proposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MySpazz Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 WHere did you see this? Can you post a link? Saints do own the land (I think) as they have a training pitch marked out next to McD. Perhpas a supermarket could rent Saints car park?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) WHere did you see this? Can you post a link? Saints do own the land (I think) as they have a training pitch marked out next to McD. Perhpas a supermarket could rent Saints car park?! It was just a very simple comment on the BBC website. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-16925149 I just did some measuring on promap, and the Tesco store is approx 75,000sqft, so the proposal is 3/4 of th size. Looking at that in context of the satellite image below, it has to be to the east of McDiarmid, unless it is on the site of the farm (? - assuming that the sheds are still agricultural), south of the extra pitch space. re. sharing car parking, that's a non starter in planning terms. Parking standards are fixed, and very rarely relaxed. Edited February 7, 2012 by montrosesaintee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancientsaint Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Is it Davie Sands ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wish i was Joe McGurn Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Is it Davie Sands ? Doubt it. Co-op bought them over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wish i was Joe McGurn Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 May be the land across from the 208 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 May be the land across from the 208That is the obvious location. Supermarket operators love a street frontage. However, what made me think twice was the comment that said 'The proposed 55,000 sq ft site would be next to the McDiarmid Park stadium, the home ground of St Johnstone FC.' Why say that if it is only remotely close to the stadium? What I wonder here, with my developer hat on, it a developer looking to get a big money deal on the go to assist the funding of the new road crossing the A9. Supermarkets bring in the best land value, and can be the catalyst for releasing housing land that needs major road provision. If it were immediately east of McDiarmid, how would that tie in with the new road line? I'm not up to speed on the proposed road either, has anyone has access to drawings at all? Basically, if the proposed road provides it with a frontage, the operators would love it, and the developer gets his road paid for, letting him get on with building houses. Saints would get a decent land value if they own the land. Indeed, they would potentially get an increased land value for the road if it were to provide access to a big retail use, even if they don't own the supermarket site itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Oh, and it is typical for developers to front such a proposal without an operator named. I would expect that there is an operator interested, but they keep out of sight for as long as possible. 55,000 sqft narrows it down to the 'big 4'. Co-op don't build that large. Morrisons, Asda, Sainsburys or Tesco. Does Perth have a decent sized Morrisons or Sainsbury? Ages since I've been in town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cagey Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Is it not Sainsbury`s up at the mart. To the uninituated thats close to McD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Morrison's was my first thought, which would tally if there is a Sainsbury already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cagey Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Morrison's was my first thought, which would tally if there is a Sainsbury already. No Sainsbury in Perth but there was word of them opening up at the Mart. Have heard nothing for a while though. Thought it was due to the rececion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 No Sainsbury in Perth but there was word of them opening up at the Mart. Have heard nothing for a while though. Thought it was due to the rececion.The recession hasn't really dampened the demand for supermarket shopping, if anything quite the opposite. Tesco have lost profits, but that might be because the other three are doing well. Sainsbury and Morrisons are both building lots of stores at present. It's kind of a last rush to plug all the gaps in the market. The way the P&K Local Development Plan is taking shape, the new A9 crossing is pretty pivotal, as the housing land supply is dependent on the housing to the west. The Council are in a world of sh*t if they can't deliver it. Can only be good for Saints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wish i was Joe McGurn Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Would be surprised if its morrisons. Cant be much bigger than the one we have. It's where the Mart was off the Caledonian road for those who asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Would be surprised if its morrisons. Cant be much bigger than the one we have. It's where the Mart was off the Caledonian road for those who asked.Like I said, its been an age since i was in the town, apart from at McDiarmid!! If there is a Morrisons already, and no Sainsbury, then it's pretty obvious. It's too big a market for Sainsbury not to be in, and to be first port of call for all the new houses would be a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wish i was Joe McGurn Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Like I said, its been an age since i was in the town, apart from at McDiarmid!! If there is a Morrisons already, and no Sainsbury, then it's pretty obvious. It's too big a market for Sainsbury not to be in, and to be first port of call for all the new houses would be a bonus. Morrisons took over from Safeway and it was extended to its max I think, When safeways had it. You have to have a certain amount of car park spaces per square foot of sales space. Asda hit the same trouble trying to extend. I doubt 3/4 size of Tesco is much bigger than what morrisons have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 No, 45,000 to 55,000 is a typical supermarket. Only really the Tesco Extra and big Asda stores are larger. From promap, I get Asda at about the same as Tesco, 75,000sqft, and Morrisons at about 45,000sqft (it was indeed safeway the last time i was there!). Based on Aberdeenshire standards (because I work here!) it is 8 spaces per 100sqm for food and 5 spaces per 100sqm non food gross floor area. So 55,000sqft, with 70% food and 30% non food = 390 spaces. P&K will be in the same ball park, as they are based on national guidelines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wish i was Joe McGurn Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 So the new one is 10,000 square foot more than what they have. A lot of the custom they have are people from within the town. People who don't drive. As its in town, not Tesco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjfc99 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Believe it is revised plans from Sainsbury's as talked about here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-15180886 It was not going to happen having a supermarket at the mart with the extra traffic on that bit of the crieff road. That said, the traffic will still not be ideal even in the new location. The road project to go behind McDiarmid and the North stand is to further alleviate traffic from that Tesco Roundabout. Edited February 7, 2012 by sjfc99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Right, I've done some digging into the draft Local Development Plan. This is what I have uncovered, which does indicate that it is the whole site between the Crieff Road and the back of the ground, with the road going around the outside. I've included the draft details of housing to the SW and NW too so you can see what the bigger picture is. The key sites are OP7, H7 and H70. Hope this makes sense. The E38 site is employment/industrial land, and the yellow shading signifies and existing retail hub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StDuncM Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Ugo's are popping up everywhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cagey Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Not to outdo Singapore Saint. Perth/Chit Chat for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 "include road improvements to the nearby A85 and A9" knocking down the North Stand at McD and improving the junctions.... Sounds to me to be Sainsbury reapplying for the Mart - major objection in the area. Good to see the aerial map to see where the new road is going to be built to replace the North Stand... Interesting changes ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryangordon86 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Not to outdo Singapore Saint. Perth/Chit Chat for this. The only thing more annoying than a thread going off topic:roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 It is interesting viewing. Just out of interest, could that application be a Dobbies? Reason I suggest is if Dobbies was to leave from next to the old Mart, then that would allow a bigger supermarket up there. Alot seems to depend on the new relief road. How funny would it be if someone or a group obtained a tree preservation order for that wee wood behind the North Stand, making chopping them down illegal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wish i was Joe McGurn Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 It is interesting viewing. Just out of interest, could that application be a Dobbies? Reason I suggest is if Dobbies was to leave from next to the old Mart, then that would allow a bigger supermarket up there. Alot seems to depend on the new relief road. How funny would it be if someone or a group obtained a tree preservation order for that wee wood behind the North Stand, making chopping them down illegal! I am sure bats have been mentioned in previous threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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