Scotland V Serbia 8/9/12 Brazil 2014 Qualifier

[glenrothes saintee]

You can't come on here making valid points and reasoned arguements!

Oh and for all those that bang on about 4-4-2, watch the last 10 minutes of the game and count what the longest amount of time we keep possession for is in that spell. In that spell we created one decent chance (Forrest's) and conceded the only clear-cut chance they had all day from open play. 4-4-2 is not the mythical golden solution that Scottish football fans seem to think it is.

How many chances did we make in the previous 80 minutes? Changing the system with ten minutes to go gives very little time for the new system to work. If you remember also, they had a very good chance in the first half, that was saved superbly by McGregor.

Yesterday, we were playing AT HOME against a team that hadn't scored in their last several games. Half their team was under 23 (at least 1 was 18yo), and we still only played the vast majority of the game with 1 up front.

Kenny Miller has served Scotland well over the years playing the lone striker, but he is now the wrong side of 30, and (if we were to qualify), would most certainly not play in Brazil.

If Levein picks Miller as a lone striker for Tuesday's game, then someone from the SFA should terminate his contract on the spot.

I have not heard what Houston said after yesterdays game, but if he keeps coming out and agreeing with Levein he should get punted too.

After the game in Prague in 2010, Houston agreed with Leveins tactics (the infamous 460). If it is such a good formation, how come DUFC have not used

[glenrothes saintee]

As i watched the game, i wanted miller replaced early in the second half , but when rhodes came on i noticed he has an awful lot of basics at international level to learn . Simple things like when closing down a defender with the ball , cut of his direct line of passing to the other defender . Kenny does this brilliantly , its the basics that jordan fails on and there are several . Miller does look on the way down though , wonder if steven fletcher would be better ?

After yesterday, Levein should have been on the phone to Fletcher pleading for him to come back. I don't care who was to blame for their fall out, but it has to be ended. as you say Rhodes is still learning, but I think that he and Fletcher would make a terrific front pairing............starting Tuesday.

[ODAB]

How many chances did we make in the previous 80 minutes? Changing the system with ten minutes to go gives very little time for the new system to work. If you remember also, they had a very good chance in the first half, that was saved superbly by McGregor.

Yesterday, we were playing AT HOME against a team that hadn't scored in their last several games. Half their team was under 23 (at least 1 was 18yo), and we still only played the vast majority of the game with 1 up front.

Kenny Miller has served Scotland well over the years playing the lone striker, but he is now the wrong side of 30, and (if we were to qualify), would most certainly not play in Brazil.

If Levein picks Miller as a lone striker for Tuesday's game, then someone from the SFA should terminate his contract on the spot.

I have not heard what Houston said after yesterdays game, but if he keeps coming out and agreeing with Levein he should get punted too.

After the game in Prague in 2010, Houston agreed with Leveins tactics (the infamous 460). If it is such a good formation, how come DUFC have not used

Yes he should have changed Miller for Rhodes earlier but 4-4-2 doesn't work at international level. We created 3 or 4 chances to answer your question and they didn't create anything from open play. We're never ever going to be an attractive, offensive team. We don't have the players. When Charlie Adam is considered the best passer in your country then you don't have technically gifted players. We have to be organised and hard to beat to stand any chance. And as for your bizarre Peter Houston comments, I think that just shows where you are coming from. He's the assistant manager, he can't come out and slate his boss in public. Why hasn't Tommy Wright been sacked yet for failing to point out what you percieve to be the problems with Saints' play? Oh and ask Spain boss Vicente Del Bosque what he thinks of 4-6-0.

[glenrothes saintee]

Yes he should have changed Miller for Rhodes earlier but 4-4-2 doesn't work at international level. We created 3 or 4 chances to answer your question and they didn't create anything from open play. We're never ever going to be an attractive, offensive team. We don't have the players. When Charlie Adam is considered the best passer in your country then you don't have technically gifted players. We have to be organised and hard to beat to stand any chance. And as for your bizarre Peter Houston comments, I think that just shows where you are coming from. He's the assistant manager, he can't come out and slate his boss in public. Why hasn't Tommy Wright been sacked yet for failing to point out what you percieve to be the problems with Saints' play? Oh and ask Spain boss Vicente Del Bosque what he thinks of 4-6-0.

Spain as we all know have world class players, who can play almost any formation as a team (as was shown by their performance playing 460). When we played it, we got into the Czech half and our players didn't have a clue what to do with the ball. In that game the Czechs were there for the beating if we had attacked.

As for what I said about Houston, DUFC have had several humpings from (what was) the OF since October 2010, never once did they play 460. They have had 2 European campaigns since then, did they play 460? No, because, unless you have world class players in your team who can adapt, or you play it every week then it is a stupid formation to try in an important (and what should have been winnable) qualifying game. Levein said (and Houston agreed) it was the way forward for the smaller countries. I was at the game in Liechtenstein last year, I don't remember them playing 460. In fact, have Scotland or any other wee country played it?

Edited September 9, 2012 by glenrothes saintee

[ODAB]

Spain as we all know have world class players, who can play almost any formation as a team (as was shown by their performance playing 460). When we played it, we got into the Czech half and our players didn't have a clue what to do with the ball. In that game the Czechs were there for the beating if we had attacked.

As for what I said about Houston, DUFC have had several humpings from (what was) the OF since October 2010, never once did they play 460. They have had 2 European campaigns since then, did they play 460? No, because, unless you have world class players in your team who can adapt, or you play it every week then it is a stupid formation to try in an important (and what should have been winnable) qualifying game. Levein said (and Houston agreed) it was the way forward for the smaller countries. I was at the game in Liechtenstein last year, I don't remember them playing 460. In fact, have Scotland or any other wee country played it?

Oh this is so tedious it is untrue. Levein never said it was the future for all small teams, neither did Houston, the system did what it was supposed to in Prague and Rubin Kazan beat Barca and drew with them playing it without any world class players. But lets get to the heart of the matter, Levein is a former United manager and so many on here have their paraochial views that sum what is wrong with Scottish football fans. Levein as pointed out has made mistakes but has the best win percentage of any manager since the 70's. He's not been an overwhelming success but has done a decent job with the team heading in the right direction despite us lacking players of genuine quality. But that's not enough for fans who have no real undersatnding of international football and for some reason think everybody is "there for the taking".

[glenrothes saintee]

Levein DID say it was the way forward, and Houston AGREED with him. The formation DID NOT do what it was supposed to do. We got beat, by a team that was there for the beating if we had attacked. Petr Chech said after the game that it was the quietist 90 minutes he had ever had in an International. He, like the Scotland fans who were there expected Scotland to attack. If the Scotland fans had known before the game that we were going to defend 99.9% of us would have stayed in the pub, which btw after the game is what we all wished we had done.

And NO, it is NOT because Levein is a former United manager, that folk lik me are annoyed with him, it is because he is a CLUELESS International manager.

No-one thinks that all teams are there for the beating, but yesterday Serbia were, in October 2010 in Prague, Czech Republic were too.

[ODAB]

Levein DID say it was the way forward, and Houston AGREED with him. The formation DID NOT do what it was supposed to do. We got beat, by a team that was there for the beating if we had attacked. Petr Chech said after the game that it was the quietist 90 minutes he had ever had in an International. He, like the Scotland fans who were there expected Scotland to attack. If the Scotland fans had known before the game that we were going to defend 99.9% of us would have stayed in the pub, which btw after the game is what we all wished we had done.

And NO, it is NOT because Levein is a former United manager, that folk lik me are annoyed with him, it is because he is a CLUELESS International manager.

No-one thinks that all teams are there for the beating, but yesterday Serbia were, in October 2010 in Prague, Czech Republic were too.

No he didn't say they should all play that formation. The formation was used to try and stop them from creating chances which is what it did, we were beaten because Caldwell failed to mark at a corner. He tried something that didn't quite work, shock horror the should be shot at dawn. For a clueless international manager he seems to be getting decent results. Fans have completely unrealistic expectations and don't seem to understand we simply don't have good attacking players. Burley did what you are saying Levein should do and tried to attack whenever possible and look what happened. It is ridiculous the level of criticism he is getting. Yes there are better Scottish managers out there but none of them wanted the job. Scottish fans have to realise that until there is a whole scale change in attitudes across the board in Scottish football and proper invetsment put in, we will always struggle. We are a small nation with a poor youth set-up, what do people expect?

[glenrothes saintee]

He said it was the way forward for small countries to play. Can you not get that into your head? And NO, the formation DID NOT work, we lost a goal from open play. If it had been a penalty or from a freekick, then you could say it worked, but the fact is, IT DID NOT WORK. And as for even trying this system, it was an IMPORTANT qualifier, it should have been tried in a friendly. As for the criticism Levein is getting, better Scotland managers than him have had worse. Again I will say that the fans don't have unrealistic expectations, we only want our country to be able to beat countries who are beatable. Serbia (at Hampden) came into that category.

[nips]

While Serbia were beatable, they were also "loseable" - ie we could just as easily have lost to them if we hadn't been so well organised at the back and in midfield. We would have been torn apart if we played 4-4-2 the entire game.

We also would have had a better chance of winning if our key players played to the best of their ability, mainly Morrison, Adam and Caldwell. The amount of times they wasted the ball was so frustrating. That's not Levein's fault, despite their poor performance it was the right thing to do giving them a start as they are our best options in those positions.

[Smarmy Arab]

How many chances did we make in the previous 80 minutes? Changing the system with ten minutes to go gives very little time for the new system to work. If you remember also, they had a very good chance in the first half, that was saved superbly by McGregor.

Yesterday, we were playing AT HOME against a team that hadn't scored in their last several games. Half their team was under 23 (at least 1 was 18yo), and we still only played the vast majority of the game with 1 up front.

Kenny Miller has served Scotland well over the years playing the lone striker, but he is now the wrong side of 30, and (if we were to qualify), would most certainly not play in Brazil.

If Levein picks Miller as a lone striker for Tuesday's game, then someone from the SFA should terminate his contract on the spot.

I have not heard what Houston said after yesterdays game, but if he keeps coming out and agreeing with Levein he should get punted too.

After the game in Prague in 2010, Houston agreed with Leveins tactics (the infamous 460). If it is such a good formation, how come DUFC have not used

So you think Scottish football should dispense with football managers and go back to the time when the blazers picked the team and tactics?

460 was a specific tactic designed to win a specific game, we lost 1-0 which would suggest it did not work, but Scotland came very close to getting the point that might have been significant. FYR's know a thing or two about football. The Serbs had a very risky tactic yesterday, at all Scotland's corners and free kicks they left 3 up at the halfway line, thus making any of Scotland's practiced set pieces impossible, as the big target men were tied up on the halfway line, and we were reduced to Adam's hit and hope. Big risk, but it worked because they understand that the home team will have a fair bit of pressure and that with a full house roaring them on could have presented a formidable challange. That's what happens at that level managers will try different strategies to out think your opponents to gain an advantage......unless your the Scotland manager when you are slaughtered if you don't play 2 up front, despite every international side playing a 5 man midfield!

[Real Madrid]

The negativity surrounding the Scotland manager just now is unbelievable and considering our placing in the world rankings yesterdays result was not the end of the world. I certainly was surprised at the crowds reaction at full time.

I wonder if this negativity is been driven from the West coast media as Levein is not an ex old firm player or manager.

Where it is however having an effect is on the attendance at Hampden. I have a bronze debenture and thus sit in the top tier of the stand. Yesterday I was in seat 1 of the West end of the bronze debentures, The next person in my row was sitting in the last seat in the East end bronze seats. The Silver section would have been empty if some people from bronze had not moved across. The bars that would have been open for these silver seats were closed and with these tickets costing about £50 a game even allowing for only £10 bar spend for each of the 3000 seats, that's around £180,000 of lost income for the SFA in the only Saturday home qualifier in this campaign.

[glenrothes saintee]

So you think Scottish football should dispense with football managers and go back to the time when the blazers picked the team and tactics?

Are you blind or just stupid? Where did I say we should dispense with football managers and let the blazers pick the team? What I did say was get rid of the current manager. I am not the only Scotland fan who thinks this today and has thought it after previous crap performances by Leveins team.

As for the 460 I will say again, the Czech Republic team in 2010 were there for the BEATING. A victory, which we would probably have got if we had sent out an attacking team from the start, would have got us 3 points. Leveins defensive formation got us F ALL. If he wanted to experiment he should have done it in a friendly to see how it would have worked.

[Eric Openshaw]

The negativity surrounding the Scotland manager just now is unbelievable and considering our placing in the world rankings yesterdays result was not the end of the world. I certainly was surprised at the crowds reaction at full time.

I wonder if this negativity is been driven from the West coast media as Levein is not an ex old firm player or manager.

Where it is however having an effect is on the attendance at Hampden. I have a bronze debenture and thus sit in the top tier of the stand. Yesterday I was in seat 1 of the West end of the bronze debentures, The next person in my row was sitting in the last seat in the East end bronze seats. The Silver section would have been empty if some people from bronze had not moved across. The bars that would have been open for these silver seats were closed and with these tickets costing about £50 a game even allowing for only £10 bar spend for each of the 3000 seats, that's around £180,000 of lost income for the SFA in the only Saturday home qualifier in this campaign.

Negativity?????????? if anything he's had it easy with the media, should've been chased after Prague, compare the treatment Burley was faced with, then re-think your point about negativity

[nips]

Are you blind or just stupid? Where did I say we should dispense with football managers and let the blazers pick the team? What I did say was get rid of the current manager. I am not the only Scotland fan who thinks this today and has thought it after previous crap performances by Leveins team.

As for the 460 I will say again, the Czech Republic team in 2010 were there for the BEATING. A victory, which we would probably have got if we had sent out an attacking team from the start, would have got us 3 points. Leveins defensive formation got us F ALL. If he wanted to experiment he should have done it in a friendly to see how it would have worked.

Hud the bus here - we didn't play 4-6-0 at home and still couldn't beat them. To say we probably would have won away had we not played 4-6-0 is not only very easy to say as there is absolutely no way anyone can disprove it, but it is VERY presumptious that we wouldn't have been overrun in the midfield. My personal opinion is we would have been beaten by a wider margin if we had gone 4-4-2 or a similar attacking formation.

I'm not defending the 4-6-0 (I think we should have went 4-5-1 personally) but it really gets on my wick when folk say it cost us the campaign when there is absolutely no guarantee we would have done any better than lose 1-0 if we had "gone for it".

[nips]

The negativity surrounding the Scotland manager just now is unbelievable and considering our placing in the world rankings yesterdays result was not the end of the world. I certainly was surprised at the crowds reaction at full time.

I wonder if this negativity is been driven from the West coast media as Levein is not an ex old firm player or manager.

I agree with Eric to an extent in the has had an easier ride than Burley did, but that tide seems to be turning at the moment. Personally, I think the majority of it is because of the Fletcher thing, which is why I have a lot of sympathy for him as I lay no blame at Levein's door for that situation.

[Smarmy Arab]

The negativity surrounding the Scotland manager just now is unbelievable and considering our placing in the world rankings yesterdays result was not the end of the world. I certainly was surprised at the crowds reaction at full time.

I wonder if this negativity is been driven from the West coast media as Levein is not an ex old firm player or manager.

Where it is however having an effect is on the attendance at Hampden. I have a bronze debenture and thus sit in the top tier of the stand. Yesterday I was in seat 1 of the West end of the bronze debentures, The next person in my row was sitting in the last seat in the East end bronze seats. The Silver section would have been empty if some people from bronze had not moved across. The bars that would have been open for these silver seats were closed and with these tickets costing about £50 a game even allowing for only £10 bar spend for each of the 3000 seats, that's around £180,000 of lost income for the SFA in the only Saturday home qualifier in this campaign.

Spot on RM, Walter 'cheque book' Myth was rarely subject to criticism, where as Burley and Levein are slaughtered, that's Scottish football, things won't change anytime soon.

[candalan]

Hud the bus here - we didn't play 4-6-0 at home and still couldn't beat them. To say we probably would have won away had we not played 4-6-0 is not only very easy to say as there is absolutely no way anyone can disprove it, but it is VERY presumptious that we wouldn't have been overrun in the midfield. My personal opinion is we would have been beaten by a wider margin if we had gone 4-4-2 or a similar attacking formation.

I'm not defending the 4-6-0 (I think we should have went 4-5-1 personally) but it really gets on my wick when folk say it cost us the campaign when there is absolutely no guarantee we would have done any better than lose 1-0 if we had "gone for it".

Pish

[saintj]

This Steven Fletcher issue needs sorting. We have absolutely nothing up front with Kenny Miller and would be as well playing 4-5-0. If it doesn't get sorted then it's going to play a part in costing Levein his job because Miller isn't going to score the goals to get us to Brazil.

If he sticks with Miller up top then he should get the bullet.

[Real Madrid]

I agree with Eric to an extent in the has had an easier ride than Burley did, but that tide seems to be turning at the moment. Personally, I think the majority of it is because of the Fletcher thing, which is why I have a lot of sympathy for him as I lay no blame at Levein's door for that situation.

I would be interested to see if many of the people who go to Scotland games are that bothered about Fletcher who in my eyes is about 11 1/2 million pounds over rated. If he was good enough he would be playing for England and not Scotland. I know under the rules we are entitled to pick him which we did but he turned his back on the team and that should be the end of it.

[nips]

Pish

Good, reasoned argument. Well done.

[Smarmy Arab]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/steven-fletcher-hits-ibiza-as-scotland-1314595

Here's the future for Scotland, never mind a manager who is trying to stop the 30 year slide of the game in Scotland and alter the culture, lets bring back Walter and he'll pick the clown ....with the bottle of buckie!

[Cagey]

The negativity surrounding the Scotland manager just now is unbelievable and considering our placing in the world rankings yesterdays result was not the end of the world. I certainly was surprised at the crowds reaction at full time.

I wonder if this negativity is been driven from the West coast media as Levein is not an ex old firm player or manager.

Where it is however having an effect is on the attendance at Hampden. I have a bronze debenture and thus sit in the top tier of the stand. Yesterday I was in seat 1 of the West end of the bronze debentures, The next person in my row was sitting in the last seat in the East end bronze seats. The Silver section would have been empty if some people from bronze had not moved across. The bars that would have been open for these silver seats were closed and with these tickets costing about £50 a game even allowing for only £10 bar spend for each of the 3000 seats, that's around £180,000 of lost income for the SFA in the only Saturday home qualifier in this campaign.

The attendance will be even worse on tuesday & there is only one reason for that,Leviens negative ,boring tactics. The only enjoyable bit of Saturdays game was the last 10 mins when he went two up front with a forward thinking wide man. My only concern was that we lost that late goal & Levien would have said it was because we committed to many forward players.

I would rather see a 2-2 game than 0-0 but I doubt if it woulld have been as Serbia couldn`t hit a barn door.

[MySpazz]

There has been so much football the past few months, and sport in general that people are probably a bit tired of it all!

not to mention international friendlies

But most of all i think people are not so interested in the national team partly because none of the players are playing in Scotland, and increasingly they are not first generation Scots either.

[nips]

The attendance will be even worse on tuesday & there is only one reason for that,Leviens negative ,boring tactics. The only enjoyable bit of Saturdays game was the last 10 mins when he went two up front with a forward thinking wide man. My only concern was that we lost that late goal & Levien would have said it was because we committed to many forward players.

I would rather see a 2-2 game than 0-0 but I doubt if it woulld have been as Serbia couldn`t hit a barn door.

Were Naismith and Snodgrass not forward thinking wide men?

Are you another one of those wanting McLeish or Smith back at the same time as criticising Levein's "boring, negative tactics"? The same, boring negative tactics that both McLeish and Smith used?

Edited September 9, 2012 by nips

[glenrothes saintee]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/steven-fletcher-hits-ibiza-as-scotland-1314595

Here's the future for Scotland, never mind a manager who is trying to stop the 30 year slide of the game in Scotland and alter the culture, lets bring back Walter and he'll pick the clown ....with the bottle of buckie!

Perhaps not a good photo from Fletchers point on view, but where in the article doesn't say he drank from the bottle? The guy was on holiday with his mates and with the permission of his manager. What are you trying to imply? I bet if you had been there and asked him if he old rather been at Hampden, I bet his answer would have been yes.