Wendy Saints Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 There is no room in a civilised society for the bile that goes along with these marches! Never did see the need for people to parade their bigotry in public whatever their creed....whichever way you look at it it is just wrong!! It would be nice just to ignore it?! But you get our council giving it the go ahead!? What's all that about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LethamChippy Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I take your point about other problems, but with over 6000 sectarian incidents reported to police last year and god knows how many not, this is not about a few marchers.....the sharp end is the centuries old tribal divisions, and all that brings, like racism, it is profoundly damaging to the social fabric.......perhaps if there wider social problems were addressed, jobs, careers, affordable places to live etc this problem would lessen considerably. It is no coincidence that N. Ireland and west central Scotland are the worst effected, they are among the poorest areas in western Europe. Orangism provides a dangerous outlet for disaffected and alienated individuals, an ideology that fosters hatred and intolerance.....at a time of economic down turn, or if Scotland were to lose its default target of blame..... Westminster, the worst thing would be these clowns having a toehold in our culture ..................... I also take your point but with this section being called Perth chat and this latest parade taking place in Perth then i naturally assumed that we were talking about what effected you, me and the other 50,000 residents of Perth and districts. I would seriously doubt there will be anything close to 6000 sectarian incidents in Perth in the last couple of centuries than in the last year. As you will see by what i,ve said in other posts, i dislike the hate culture that we seem blighted by in " oor wee toon ". I strongly believe that any ideologies that foster hatred and intolerance, should be addressed at an early age when our children start their formal education. Until wee William starts going to the same school as wee Timothy then intolerances and suspicions will remain. I think Perth should be bold and be first to break this outdated and economically outrageous situation of separate schooling. For what its worth I do not mind any parades in Perth wether it be 40 old guys walking down a steet early in the morning to the Pipe Band parades or kilt runs or Blackwatch homehomings or even wee Boys Brigage or Cub Scouts parading. I do not think that we have any Problems with sectarianism in Perth and I dont think that 40 old guys would make any significant difference dwarfed in a population of 50,000 could make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarmy Arab Posted July 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 I also take your point but with this section being called Perth chat and this latest parade taking place in Perth then i naturally assumed that we were talking about what effected you, me and the other 50,000 residents of Perth and districts. I would seriously doubt there will be anything close to 6000 sectarian incidents in Perth in the last couple of centuries than in the last year. As you will see by what i,ve said in other posts, i dislike the hate culture that we seem blighted by in " oor wee toon ". I strongly believe that any ideologies that foster hatred and intolerance, should be addressed at an early age when our children start their formal education. Until wee William starts going to the same school as wee Timothy then intolerances and suspicions will remain. I think Perth should be bold and be first to break this outdated and economically outrageous situation of separate schooling. For what its worth I do not mind any parades in Perth wether it be 40 old guys walking down a steet early in the morning to the Pipe Band parades or kilt runs or Blackwatch homehomings or even wee Boys Brigage or Cub Scouts parading. I do not think that we have any Problems with sectarianism in Perth and I dont think that 40 old guys would make any significant difference dwarfed in a population of 50,000 could make. This thread is about the marches in Perth, which cannot be understood without a wider context...that is the point! Every country in Europe has separate schools for Catholics and Protestant.........none have the same problems we have here, (and NI) so IMO we must look beyond schooling to other aspects of 'our' tribal culture..............like allowing one tribe to occupy the public sphere, bang their drums in a straight forward display of hatred and provocation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhq Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Or to put it another way, if 40 guys marched through Perth proclaiming their hatred for Muslims or Jews, or gays, or any other minority group - would it be tolerated? Yet this isn't just tolerated - it is condoned by the Council. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This thread is about the marches in Perth, which cannot be understood without a wider context...that is the point! Every country in Europe has separate schools for Catholics and Protestant.........none have the same problems we have here, (and NI) so IMO we must look beyond schooling to other aspects of 'our' tribal culture..............like allowing one tribe to occupy the public sphere, bang their drums in a straight forward display of hatred and provocation. Edited July 1, 2013 by jhq Smarmy Arab 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LethamChippy Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Do you genuinely feel provoked by 40 old guys walking into town on a Saturday morning at 9am? If you genuinely do then life cannot be a very nice place for you. I feel more threatened walking through the town after 9pm on any given weekend with the pissed up neds roaming the streets than 40 old guys in suits at 9 in the morning.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstar101 Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Do you genuinely feel provoked by 40 old guys walking into town on a Saturday morning at 9am? If you genuinely do then life cannot be a very nice place for you. I feel more threatened walking through the town after 9pm on any given weekend with the pissed up neds roaming the streets than 40 old guys in suits at 9 in the morning.. Are you just ignoring the fact (as has already been pointed out) that there were many more than "40 old guys" involved? And they weren't just "walking into town"......ach, you know what, forget it Smarmy Arab and jhq 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LethamChippy Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Another smaller march of a similar nature for end of June: St Andrew's True Blues LAUGH OUT LOUD 209 Perth 29 June 2013 at 8.30 am and 6.30 pm at 8.30 am -Tulloch Park road end, via Tulloch Road, Crieff Road, Barrack Street, Atholl Street, North Methven Street, High Street, Scott St, South Street, Tay Street, path at car park Lesser South Inch, 6.30pm - Cross Street, Leonard Street, Kings Place, Marshall Place, Tay Street, Dry Arch, lay wreath at Cameronian Monument, National Anthem, disperse. Approx 40 FAO Blindstar101 I really cannot for the life of me understand why people are getting their knick knacks in a wee twist over 40 ( as stated above ) old guys walking into town at 8.30am in the morning. Whats the big deal here? Are you frightened of being assaulted by a walking stick or a zimmer frame, mind you, those mobility scooters can be lethal too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickardo Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 FAO Blindstar101 I really cannot for the life of me understand why people are getting their knick knacks in a wee twist over 40 ( as stated above ) old guys walking into town at 8.30am in the morning. Whats the big deal here? Are you frightened of being assaulted by a walking stick or a zimmer frame, mind you, those mobility scooters can be lethal too. Don't really think that's whats bugging folks on here ,think its more the principle that crap like this still goes on in modern Scotland . Smarmy Arab, fazman1977 and Wendy Saints 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstar101 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 FAO Blindstar101 I really cannot for the life of me understand why people are getting their knick knacks in a wee twist over 40 ( as stated above ) old guys walking into town at 8.30am in the morning. Whats the big deal here? Are you frightened of being assaulted by a walking stick or a zimmer frame, mind you, those mobility scooters can be lethal too. Me blind? You're having a laugh. You're the one having difficulty in seeing the bigger picture here Is that not just the details for one of the orders, or whatever they are called? It has obviously nothing to do with being assaulted by them either. See that there, on the horizon? That's the point that you are completely missing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LethamChippy Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Me blind? You're having a laugh. You're the one having difficulty in seeing the bigger picture here Is that not just the details for one of the orders, or whatever they are called? It has obviously nothing to do with being assaulted by them either. See that there, on the horizon? That's the point that you are completely missing So, this bigger picture thing, we have a populatuon of approximately 50,000, and you are worrying about what 40 old men out of 50000 do with their Saturday mornings once a year? Is your life really that empty that you have to worry about " the bigger picture " of 40 old guys in our town? I,m not particularly keen on Jehova Witness,s chapping my door every other week, that,s more pro active than old guys walking into town once every year, but im prepared to offer them courtesy and tollerance. I,d wager a bet that there are far more than 40 of them in our town too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstar101 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 So, this bigger picture thing, we have a populatuon of approximately 50,000, and you are worrying about what 40 old men out of 50000 do with their Saturday mornings once a year? Is your life really that empty that you have to worry about " the bigger picture " of 40 old guys in our town? I,m not particularly keen on Jehova Witness,s chapping my door every other week, that,s more pro active than old guys walking into town once every year, but im prepared to offer them courtesy and tollerance. I,d wager a bet that there are far more than 40 of them in our town too. Why do you keep on harking on about this "40 old men"? That is irrelevant. As far as I am aware, there were many more than 40 involved, including many children and teenagers...so, please, stop using the 40 old men as some kind of point that supports your argument. It doesn't matter anyway if there were 40 or 4000, it's the fact that it is one side of a religious chasm being allowed by the Council to openly display their hatred of another. In fact, if it was only 40, then that would actually support those of us that think what they do is outdated and pathetic. It's the whole concept behind the Orange Marches and the fact that they openly preach hate and celebrate bigotry and intolerance. They are not that far removed from those that attend BNP marches...if only 40 of them were marching through the streets, would you be accepting of their right to sing and shout about their hatred of foreigners?? Your comparison to JW's is pathetic and bears no similarity to what the issues are that are being discussed. I actually fear that perhaps what I am trying to discuss with you is out of your reach and so, I will concede that you have your viewpoint , and I (and just about everyone else) have a different one and leave it at that. Enjoy your chips jhq and fazman1977 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LethamChippy Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Edward, let love into your heart and top all this hating business. Hating all the time cannot be good for your health. It can,t be as your previously said " what makes the world go round" Get out there, hug a tree, sniff some flowers, be at one with nature. Life is way too short to be hating old men or whatever. Peace & Love Bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancientsaint Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Edward, let love into your heart and top all this hating business. Hating all the time cannot be good for your health. It can,t be as your previously said " what makes the world go round" Get out there, hug a tree, sniff some flowers, be at one with nature. Life is way too short to be hating old men or whatever. Peace & Love Bro.Dinnae hug a tree -they are full of Ants and other creepy crawlies that can get in about yer body parts -nibble the flesh and lay their little million offspring in yer pores and ears and up yer anal canal eating within and breeding all over yer pancreas and other organs.As for sniffing flowers ---christ dinna get me started on that ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhq Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 So, this bigger picture thing, we have a populatuon of approximately 50,000, and you are worrying about what 40 old men out of 50000 do with their Saturday mornings once a year? Is your life really that empty that you have to worry about " the bigger picture " of 40 old guys in our town? I,m not particularly keen on Jehova Witness,s chapping my door every other week, that,s more pro active than old guys walking into town once every year, but im prepared to offer them courtesy and tollerance. I,d wager a bet that there are far more than 40 of them in our town too. A few points for you chippy: There were two marches in Perth this year - one in May,one in June. The one in May consisted of hundreds of marchers and caused major disruption to the city centre, causing major inconvenience to the residents, visitors and shoppers of Perth. This happened on a busy Saturday, which was arguably the first decent weekend weather-wise of the year. The one in June may well have consisted of only 40 marchers, but the original post on this thread is clearly about the first, much bigger march. The first March consisted of marchers of a wide spectrum of ages, including children who I would say were as young as 6. I liked your point about young William and young Timothy attending the same schools but there would be no point in this if children of this age are being brain-washed by this bigotry. I didn't see anything of the second march (only saw the first because I had forgot it was on) and therefore I have no idea of the age of the participants. However, if your assertion that all 40 participants were "old men" is correct, then it makes no difference - it's still 40 bigots that have nothing to do with Perth. It's still 40 bigots making a bloody racket at 8.30 am on a Sunday. It's still 40 bigots too many in the world. If it really is 40 old men in the 2nd march then my suggestion is if they want to do it again next year, then march them up Kinnoull Hill and back down. With any luck, there will only be 20 old bigots left when they get back to the bottom. Finally, your insistence on battering on about not feeling threatened by 40 old men. No I'm not, I'm offended by them. However, in the original post, Smarmy Arab mentions the minders that tag along in their Sevco tops. This does happen and is intimidating for people trying to use the town centre for it's intended purpose, particularly the elderly. If you find this acceptable in this day and age, in a city that wasn't even represented by any of the marchers, then I suspect you will be in the minority on this forum, and I wouldn't think that will change if your only argument is that it was just 40 old men. Smarmy Arab and fazman1977 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhq Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Are you the owner of Letham chippy? If so and some Jehovah witnesses came into the chippy, would you serve them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhq Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Why do you keep on harking on about this "40 old men"? That is irrelevant. As far as I am aware, there were many more than 40 involved, including many children and teenagers...so, please, stop using the 40 old men as some kind of point that supports your argument. It doesn't matter anyway if there were 40 or 4000, it's the fact that it is one side of a religious chasm being allowed by the Council to openly display their hatred of another. In fact, if it was only 40, then that would actually support those of us that think what they do is outdated and pathetic. It's the whole concept behind the Orange Marches and the fact that they openly preach hate and celebrate bigotry and intolerance. They are not that far removed from those that attend BNP marches...if only 40 of them were marching through the streets, would you be accepting of their right to sing and shout about their hatred of foreigners?? Your comparison to JW's is pathetic and bears no similarity to what the issues are that are being discussed. I actually fear that perhaps what I am trying to discuss with you is out of your reach and so, I will concede that you have your viewpoint , and I (and just about everyone else) have a different one and leave it at that. Enjoy your chips Good post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LethamChippy Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Are you the owner of Letham chippy? If so and some Jehovah witnesses came into the chippy, would you serve them? I,m nothing to do with the Letham Chippy, I am a Letham Chippy, a hippy. Maybe I just have a higher tolleration level than most of you haters. Buy a campervan, go to gigs, smoke the weed, be happy. Love your fellow man. ps If i had a chippy then all would be welcome, even those with hate in their heart and a keyboard on their lap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstar101 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 I,m nothing to do with the Letham Chippy, I am a Letham Chippy, a hippy. Maybe I just have a higher tolleration level than most of you haters. Buy a campervan, go to gigs, smoke the weed, be happy. Love your fellow man. ps If i had a chippy then all would be welcome, even those with hate in their heart and a keyboard on their lap. Ah....so you are a lover and a believer in toleration? So, surely, the whole concept of the Orange Walks is something you should be against. They are so intolerant and hateful it is unbelievable and would wipe a certain opposing section of their 'fellow man' from the planet given half a chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LethamChippy Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Ah....so you are a lover and a believer in toleration? So, surely, the whole concept of the Orange Walks is something you should be against. They are so intolerant and hateful it is unbelievable and would wipe a certain opposing section of their 'fellow man' from the planet given half a chance You have a very vivid imagination for a hater Edward, ever thought of puting it to good use? I believe in live and let live whether it be an Orange Walk, a Pink Walk or a Tartan Walk. These 40 auld yin,s are going to have some job wiping out whatever fellow man from the planet eh? It will make a good film though, I liked that Planet of the Apes thing. Wanted the monkeys to win too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Fleming Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Think a good few on here should be hopping on the offended bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babychunder Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 By the way, fergiefootball = jhq = lethamchippy = kingjay = craiginasaintsstrip = probably a few others too. When it comes to trolls, best to filter rather than feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhq Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 By the way, fergiefootball = jhq = lethamchippy = kingjay = craiginasaintsstrip = probably a few others too. When it comes to trolls, best to filter rather than feed. pardon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LethamChippy Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 By the way, fergiefootball = jhq = lethamchippy = kingjay = craiginasaintsstrip = probably a few others too. When it comes to trolls, best to filter rather than feed. Pardon? nah.....scrub the pardon...... I,M ALL OF THE ABOVE........ and so,s my wive,s........... DAMN YOU SHERLOCK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarmy Arab Posted July 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 LC, I note with interest your hippy tolerance stops short of catholic schools, when it comes to 'separate' schools you suggest state intervention/social engineering for the greater good....a tad inconsistent wouldn't you say? 'The live and let live man' is fine as far as it goes, but I would refer you to the harm principle, discussed earlier in the thread that freedom cannot be freedom if it threatens, bullies or intimidates someone else's freedom. I would also challenge the inherent notion of human autonomy in the hippy philosophy you expouse.....it ignores existing structures of power, injustice and vested interests. Bear with me and allow me to share a useful anecdote. Three men sharing a house in New Orleans. One of the men, ***, returns home one evening to find his housemate cooking a pot of Gumbo, slicing prawn, shrimp and all the other ingredients necessary for fish stew. The cooking gumbo smells delicious, and *** requests of the chef to leave him some in the fridge, so that he could take it to work next day and have it for lunch. The following morning when he comes down stairs, the kitchen is pretty much as he had left it the night before; fish heads, prawn shells left strewn around the work surfaces and the gumbo, uncovered on the stove......nothing in the fridge, so *** goes to work as usual, a bit hosed off that the chef had left his mess. When *** returns home he finds his other housemate cooking in the kitchen, the gumbo mess still strewn around the kitchen, *** says "how can you cook in this mess?" To which his housemate responds, "this is not my mess, this is someone else's mess, I'm damned if I'm cleaning it up" *** agreed, after all he'd done exactly the same that morning. Both men took their self-righteousness off to bed. By morning the gumbo had now been uncovered for 36 hours, and the housemates awoke to usual humidity of a New Orleans summer to an unspeakable stench that had filled the house. Everyone in the house decended on the kitchen and gagging and cursing to dispose of the mess and try to return the house to a condition with which they could live comfortably. Regardless of blame or responsibility, if you allow something rancid to fester, by simply ignoring it, it will, when the conditions are right stink to place out.....stink your place out. You posted an excellent article outlining the shameful history of orangism in Scotland, yet seen reluctant to take on board it's content. Instead you discard your hippy principals and target catholic schools.....bizarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LethamChippy Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 What a lot of absolute tosh! I,m not targeting catholic schools i,m targeting what happened to me when i was young. My best friend co incidently called William was sent away to a different school from all of his pals and his best pal, me! Could not see the sense in it then and cannot see the sense in wee pals being sent to different schools at an early age. The benefit of this to the wee pals is what? Catholic schools can do as they please, as i,ve said before , live and let live but do not see the need that in a multicultural society that we live in that the wee non dom and his wee pal are put in differing directions. Wee pals should go to their closest school, or is that just too simplistic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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