St Johnstone v Dundee 30/03/24

[RandomGuy]

32 minutes ago, Havana Saint said:

We were obviously watching two different games.

I'm literally just asking what was good about it?

Did you think we attacked well? Defended well? Shape was good? Etc.

[SlickDT]

There was plenty of effort from the players, but lacking so many of the basics.

Thought Sidebeh was impressive. He was raw, but he was constantly looking to make things happen and scored an outstanding goal.

His attitude towards being a St Johnstone player is also highly refreshing. You can see what it means to him, to have this chance in British football.

A few others could learn a lesson from him.

[blueheaven]

That was probably one of the better games we've seen of late, which pretty much says it all.

Up until yesterday I felt we might still do enough to finish outside the bottom two, but it's becoming really difficult to see how we're going to pick up enough points to hold Ross County at bay. I do think the players are trying, but as a group the standard just isn't high enough. I feel a good manager would be able to get a bit more out of them, but that's clearly something we don't have.

Sidibeh had a good game and scored a wonderful goal but it seemed to be obvious to everyone in the stadium except Levein that he needed to be replaced way before he actually was. I just don't understand this reluctance to use our subs. And that midfield four was the weakest I've seen us start a game with for a long time.

I really worry about what's to come in the next couple of games before the split. It's very, very easy to see us getting zero points from those.

[Strawman]

Sidibeh collapsed on the pitch a few weeks ago and it felt yesterday like he had to actually ask to come off, surely he should be getting extra care.

Our subs never seem ready, approaching 30 mins to go yesterday we had not a single sub warming up.

That said I actually enjoyed yesterdays game, thought we showed some attacking intent although I think we should be better.

At least twice yesterday, Gallagher got himself in a great position in the box, he’s not that player though and it’s shit he’s being asked to do that role.

 

[Gekko]

I thought there were both positives and negatives from that performance.

The positives, the fact that we were actually attacking. It's been a long time since I've heard the media say "wave after wave of St. Johnstone attacks".

This was a far cry from the ultra negative Davidson days.

Sidibeh is raw and a bit all over the place, but is great to watch. And as for that goal, excellent! Robbie Savage even mentioned at the start of the 606 phone in on Sunday night.

It's good to have somebody in a Saints shirt who gets you excited whenever he gets the ball. Again, it's been a while.

Clark still looks a bit rusty, Kimpioka looked good when he came on.

Max did okay but we missed Sprangler. If he had been in his normal place, there's a strong possibility that neither Dundee goal would have happened.

As for the negatives, like others, I can't fathom out Levein's substitution policy.

So many players were showing signs of tiredness with around 30 minutes to go, surely some fresh legs on the pitch would have made a difference.

Callum had this reluctance as well and it's so frustrating.

Good modern managers can take advantage of the five players you're now able to bring on. And more and more, it seems to be becoming an important part of the game.

Levein seems stuck in the old two subs maximum days. This really needs to change going forward.

Yes, we don't have the strongest bench, but Kimpioka and May could have been on earlier and even Crawford could have been brought on with ten minutes to go, to hopefully get one of his trademark equalisers or winners.

For what it's worth, I thought at the time, and I still do, that the McGowan "goal" should have stood. I'm agreeing with Sportscene pundits for once, the keeper wasn't in control of the ball. I also thought it was already over the line.

That's at least four points Dundee have got from us this season because of V.A.R. That would make the current table much different than it is now. And if you add in the Aberdeen game with the Carey goal!

Levein frustrates me but if he keeps us up then it's job done. After that, he can be more accurately judged on his team and performances going forward.

Dundee by the way I thought were okay, but not nearly as good as some people think.

They remind me of what we used to be like, organised and able to somehow get a result when required. Beck makes them look better than they are, but without him, they're not as good as the hype.

[SaintJet]

29 minutes ago, Gekko said:

I thought there were both positives and negatives from that performance.

The positives, the fact that we were actually attacking. It's been a long time since I've heard the media say "wave after wave of St. Johnstone attacks".

This was a far cry from the ultra negative Davidson days.

Sidibeh is raw and a bit all over the place, but is great to watch. And as for that goal, excellent! Robbie Savage even mentioned at the start of the 606 phone in on Sunday night.

It's good to have somebody in a Saints shirt who gets you excited whenever he gets the ball. Again, it's been a while.

Clark still looks a bit rusty, Kimpioka looked good when he came on.

Max did okay but we missed Sprangler. If he had been in his normal place, there's a strong possibility that neither Dundee goal would have happened.

As for the negatives, like others, I can't fathom out Levein's substitution policy.

So many players were showing signs of tiredness with around 30 minutes to go, surely some fresh legs on the pitch would have made a difference.

Callum had this reluctance as well and it's so frustrating.

Good modern managers can take advantage of the five players you're now able to bring on. And more and more, it seems to be becoming an important part of the game.

Levein seems stuck in the old two subs maximum days. This really needs to change going forward.

Yes, we don't have the strongest bench, but Kimpioka and May could have been on earlier and even Crawford could have been brought on with ten minutes to go, to hopefully get one of his trademark equalisers or winners.

For what it's worth, I thought at the time, and I still do, that the McGowan "goal" should have stood. I'm agreeing with Sportscene pundits for once, the keeper wasn't in control of the ball. I also thought it was already over the line.

That's at least four points Dundee have got from us this season because of V.A.R. That would make the current table much different than it is now. And if you add in the Aberdeen game with the Carey goal!

Levein frustrates me but if he keeps us up then it's job done. After that, he can be more accurately judged on his team and performances going forward.

Dundee by the way I thought were okay, but not nearly as good as some people think.

They remind me of what we used to be like, organised and able to somehow get a result when required. Beck makes them look better than they are, but without him, they're not as good as the hype.

Agree with eveything in your post.

[RandomGuy]

Yet again pointing at the sign of "we only attacked lots because we were already losing by the 6th minute".

One of our best attacking games under Davidson, in terms of number of attacks, was when Livingston thumped us and the game was over by the half hour mark.

Edited April 1 by RandomGuy

[SaintJet]

The goals we lost were criminal! Don't understand why Mitov didn't jut head the ball out but why no defender didn't get back to cover the goal line was poor. Well done to the Dundee lad it was quick thinking and a great goal.

The second goal was again poor defending; Gallacher, who actualy played not bad got tangelled up and Gordon let his man get away and although the deflection contributed to the Dundee player crossing we should really have dealt with that better. It took the air out of comeback after a great goal and a great individual performance from Sidibae.

[Gekko]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy said:

Yet again pointing at the sign of "we only attacked lots because we were already losing by the 6th minute".

One of our best attacking games under Davidson, in terms of number of attacks, was when Livingston thumped us and the game was over by the half hour mark.

I don’t mind if Dundee going ahead was the reason for the tactical change, which of course it would have been, I’m just glad that when it happened that we did up our game to the extent we did.

Keeping it tight and not going behind to a side above us in the league makes sense to start with, and might have worked were it not for everybody having a mad moment.

If we had started on the front foot, and then gone behind, we would have been criticised for being too gung ho, and that we should have been more streetwise and the like.

In the past though, we may not have been as attack minded as we ultimately were, so because of that, I’ll put it down as a positive.

[RandomGuy]

5 hours ago, Gekko said:

In the past though, we may not have been as attack minded as we ultimately were, so because of that, I’ll put it down as a positive.

 

6 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

Yet again pointing at the sign of "we only attacked lots because we were already losing by the 6th minute".

One of our best attacking games under Davidson, in terms of number of attacks, was when Livingston thumped us and the game was over by the half hour mark.

We finished a 3-0 home loss to Livingston with ~65% possession and 16 shots. 

Teams in this league sit back once they get an early goal and let you play because the majority of sides can't break others down. Dundee restricted us, apart from one Clark effort, to long range shots and crosses.

[Northern saint]

We've been poor defensively for several seasons, not cutting out crosses, leaving players unattended, switching off on runs.  We cannot afford to lay back and hope our defence works.  We need to get on the front foot and put the opposition under pressure.  There are no super teams, basically the ones winning have more up and at them about them.  

The injuries for DJ and Sprangler hurt as they were showing signs of being the players we needed.  

The lack of timely substitutions is baffling.  We know Crawford can't defend but in the last fifteen minutes he can sneak a goal or find a pass.  Sidibeh can't last ninety minutes.  I'd have him and Kimpioka start as Clark doesn't look match fit. 

Why does Levein stick with the slow start allowing the opposition the tempo? 

[Cagey]

1 hour ago, Northern saint said:

We've been poor defensively for several seasons, not cutting out crosses, leaving players unattended, switching off on runs.  We cannot afford to lay back and hope our defence works.  We need to get on the front foot and put the opposition under pressure.  There are no super teams, basically the ones winning have more up and at them about them.  

The injuries for DJ and Sprangler hurt as they were showing signs of being the players we needed.  

The lack of timely substitutions is baffling.  We know Crawford can't defend but in the last fifteen minutes he can sneak a goal or find a pass.  Sidibeh can't last ninety minutes.  I'd have him and Kimpioka start as Clark doesn't look match fit. 

Why does Levein stick with the slow start allowing the opposition the tempo? 

That's his whole raison detre. Start the game slow , don't get in front of the ball and keep it tight too last 10 mins. I don't think I have seen us start on the front foot since he arrived. His first game was against Motherwell . Clelland chose the team and we were 2-0 up at half time and bossing the game. In the second half we went defensive and have to assume it was Leveins influence.

[blueheaven]

Does anyone know, is Crawford one of the guys who has been training "with the kids", or has he just been injured?

Interesting to see him on the bench as that would suggest he's being considered again and is back with the first team squad, even if there was very little chance of him actually coming on.

[Stumpy1949]

At the moment I would rather have Ali Crawford than Max. 

[SaintJet]

8 minutes ago, Stumpy1949 said:

At the moment I would rather have Ali Crawford than Max. 

I'm not fond of Max either but I thought he had a decent game on Saturday - probably the best this season from him. Crawford never showed anything to suggest he would nail down a starting job for us.

[Cagey]

1 hour ago, blueheaven said:

Does anyone know, is Crawford one of the guys who has been training "with the kids", or has he just been injured?

Interesting to see him on the bench as that would suggest he's being considered again and is back with the first team squad, even if there was very little chance of him actually coming on.

I think he was injured but not sure if training with the kids was a rumour.

Remember McGowan was also told he could go , don't know if he was training with the kids.

Some strange decisions. Kane allowed to go and now helping Dunfermline to play off place. Mc Lelland allowed to go and now we have a defence of pensioners with no pace o r heading ability.

[Gort]

Got bus into town after the game, laughed at wee neds in that scheme next to the ground screaming at us and spitting on the bus windies. They were only about 10 or 11 years old. 

[Gort]

No bad scheme tho, actually got windies in the bus shelters. 

[Cagey]

Does that result on Saturday confirm Dundee as the top side in Tayside for the first time in over 50 years ?.

 

[blueheaven]

24 minutes ago, Cagey said:

Does that result on Saturday confirm Dundee as the top side in Tayside for the first time in over 50 years ?.

 

Not mathematically, no. They could still end up in the bottom 6 and Saints could overtake them. Unlikely, obvs.

[Gort]

4 hours ago, Cagey said:

Does that result on Saturday confirm Dundee as the top side in Tayside for the first time in over 50 years ?.

 

No, but it is prob the 50th time the Dees have been the top team in Tayside. 

[RandomGuy]

Finishing above St Johnstone is Dundees biggest achievement in the past decade tbf, I'd expect them to add it to their honours list.

[Cagey]

On the subject of Dundee. I see they might try to play the game on Sunday if off on Saturday. If still unplayable then behind closed doors at Airdrie on Monday. Motherwell not happy and rightly so.

Surely they won't make Dundee play on Monday with a game on Wednesday against Rangers.

SPFL panicking to get all games played before the split.

Surely Dundee deserve punishment for have 4 maybe 5 called off but playing Monday \wednesday is not enough and Celtic wouldn't be happy.

[Gort]

1 hour ago, Cagey said:

On the subject of Dundee. I see they might try to play the game on Sunday if off on Saturday. If still unplayable then behind closed doors at Airdrie on Monday. Motherwell not happy and rightly so.

Surely they won't make Dundee play on Monday with a game on Wednesday against Rangers.

SPFL panicking to get all games played before the split.

Surely Dundee deserve punishment for have 4 maybe 5 called off but playing Monday \wednesday is not enough and Celtic wouldn't be happy.

What are Motherwell moaning about, a game at Airdrie would be more like a home game for them. 

[Cagey]

4 minutes ago, Gort said:

What are Motherwell moaning about, a game at Airdrie would be more like a home game for them. 

Closed doors.