Paul N Shark Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 Alice Gross: Coroner Calls For Immigration Checks http://news.sky.com/story/1721494/alice-gross-coroner-calls-for-immigration-checks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 Alice Gross: Coroner Calls For Immigration Checks http://news.sky.com/story/1721494/alice-gross-coroner-calls-for-immigration-checks Similar to the two Lithuanians who murdered their flatmate in Arbroath for a few quid out her bank account. Both had criminal records not checked when they entered the UK. However, surely the key here is not allowing known criminals to move around freely with authorities none the wiser to their pasts. Cutting ourselves off from the EU will hardly help the free flow of information about potential immigrants, who won't stop coming to the country because of Brexit. Labelling Eastern Europeans as murderers is hardly fair. Labelling murderers as murderers is more reasonable. Plenty of them from the uk too. Smarmy Arab 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rik2304 Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 Prefer Peter Tobin.Good old fashioned British killer. ex-montrosesaintee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babychunder Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 The UK database for criminals is held on the Police National Computer (PNC). In the EU there is a system called ECRIS (don't know what it stands for). Convictions for offences in the EU can be notified to or requested by the UK, and put on the PNC. Not all offences are recordable, and not all are notified. All offences by UK nationals are reported, and if an equivalent offence exists in the UK it gets put on the PNC. There are loose sharing arrangement in non-EU countries under INTERPOL but I'm not sure how they work, I think it depends on the countries involved. The PNC should be dipped as a matter of routine when someone enters the UK, AFAIK currently it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 The UK database for criminals is held on the Police National Computer (PNC). In the EU there is a system called ECRIS (don't know what it stands for). Convictions for offences in the EU can be notified to or requested by the UK, and put on the PNC. Not all offences are recordable, and not all are notified. All offences by UK nationals are reported, and if an equivalent offence exists in the UK it gets put on the PNC. There are loose sharing arrangement in non-EU countries under INTERPOL but I'm not sure how they work, I think it depends on the countries involved. The PNC should be dipped as a matter of routine when someone enters the UK, AFAIK currently it isn't. Interesting, so the fault for allowing criminals to freely enter the UK unchecked, lies with the UK. Nothing to do with being a member of the EU or not, and nothing to do with all immigrants being murderers? I'm not arguing for or against membership of the EU, I'm arguing against stereotyping immigrants as criminals. sixties saintee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul N Shark Posted July 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 Interesting, so the fault for allowing criminals to freely enter the UK unchecked, lies with the UK. Nothing to do with being a member of the EU or not, and nothing to do with all immigrants being murderers? I'm not arguing for or against membership of the EU, I'm arguing against stereotyping immigrants as criminals. Nobody is stereotyping all immigrants as criminals but if checks had been done on this guy when he entered the UK that young girl would still be alive today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul N Shark Posted July 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 Prefer Peter Tobin.Good old fashioned British killer. What a stupid statement that is, would you say that to his victims families? babychunder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 Nobody is stereotyping all immigrants as criminals but if checks had been done on this guy when he entered the UK that young girl would still be alive today. Couldn't agree more. So why does the article turn it into a Brexit discussion? It's got precious little to do with the EU membership whether immigrant's criminal records are checked. Sensationalist media turned to sensationalist forum posting. blueheaven and rik2304 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rik2304 Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 What a stupid statement that is, would you say that to his victims families? The point actually is that Tobin often wasn't checked and simply got away with assuming a false name. Criminal checks should be better all round. Not simply for Johnny Foreigner. ex-montrosesaintee, Jiangsu Sainty and blueheaven 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babychunder Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 Interesting, so the fault for allowing criminals to freely enter the UK unchecked, lies with the UK. Nothing to do with being a member of the EU or not, and nothing to do with all immigrants being murderers? I'm not arguing for or against membership of the EU, I'm arguing against stereotyping immigrants as criminals. Correct. We could (and probably should) look up everyone who enters the country. Government figures I've seen on immigrants suggest that native EU migrant flows are associated with small drops in the incidence of property crime, and make no difference to the propensity towards violent crime. According to Oxford Uni, amongst other immigrant groups, the crime rate is strongly correlated with their level of access to the labour market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixties saintee Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Dress it up anyway you want but the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of a tory government who have continually cut away at the budgets, redundancies and out sourcing, chickens coming home to roost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indicator Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Dress it up anyway you want but the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of a tory government who have continually cut away at the budgets.... ... and manpower, In equal (maybe not) and opposite direction to the ever increasing population of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiangsu Sainty Posted July 7, 2016 Report Share Posted July 7, 2016 If only we hadn't chosen to move away from the increasing powers of the European arrest warrants and databases that govts hadn't invested enough to make full use of. We already did full passport checks on everyone entering the country due to not being part of schengen, apart from our own agreement with Ireland. As a dishevelled slightly brownskinned student I was pulled over and searched on the euro star regularly back when I used to use it a lot. We always had control of borders. Leaving the EU risks making that kind of police cooperation harder. The underlying tone of this thread is horrible, even if the words used in the OP are fine in abstract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babychunder Posted July 7, 2016 Report Share Posted July 7, 2016 Couldn't agree more. So why does the article turn it into a Brexit discussion? It's got precious little to do with the EU membership whether immigrant's criminal records are checked. Sensationalist media turned to sensationalist forum posting. You're right it's nothing to do with Brexit. We could do the checks, HMG just hasn't ponied up the money and manpower to do so. The checks should apply to everyone entering the country, even UK citizens returning from abroad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AthensSaint Posted July 7, 2016 Report Share Posted July 7, 2016 Dress it up anyway you want but the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of a tory government who have continually cut away at the budgets, redundancies and out sourcing, chickens coming home to roost. Tony Blairs' unnecessary war has a huge impact on present migration to UK. The shoogly peg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babychunder Posted July 7, 2016 Report Share Posted July 7, 2016 I'd say Assad's got as much to answer for as Tony... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixties saintee Posted July 8, 2016 Report Share Posted July 8, 2016 Tony Blairs' unnecessary war has a huge impact on present migration to UK. Cant disagree with that AS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babychunder Posted July 8, 2016 Report Share Posted July 8, 2016 That bastrad Saddam might not have had weapons of mass destruction but he was committing genocide against the Kurds using chemical weapons and gas, and also persecuting the Marsh Arabs by devastating their lands. He was a cruel and savage dictator who deserved to die, someone had to depose him, and we chose to do so (albeit on a false premise). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garydavidson Posted July 8, 2016 Report Share Posted July 8, 2016 That bastrad Saddam might not have had weapons of mass destruction but he was committing genocide against the Kurds using chemical weapons and gas, and also persecuting the Marsh Arabs by devastating their lands. He was a cruel and savage dictator who deserved to die, someone had to depose him, and we chose to do so (albeit on a false premise). We supported him when he gassed the Kurds. We also helped him build up the chemical weapons. sixties saintee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babychunder Posted July 8, 2016 Report Share Posted July 8, 2016 While it's true that Saddam, as Iran's enemy was "in our good books" while Kurds were being gassed, I can't imagine that HMG helped him to do so or condoned it. In the case of chemical weapons, a few rogue UK companies may have been exporting stuff they shouldn't but once again I don't think HMG was complicit in this. I seem to remember a German company building a chlorine plant somewhere that was re-purposed for making gas weaponry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The shoogly peg Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) "I can't imagine that HMG helped him to do so or condoned it. " " a few rogue UK companies" " I don't think HMG was complicit in this" This is one of the most naive posts I've read on here in many years! There are not enough laughing and scoffing emojis to do this justice. Edited July 13, 2016 by The shoogly peg Abernethy Saint 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babychunder Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 Ah go on then what unique and special insight or inside knowledge do you have that puts our government at risk of being forced to answer for war crimes eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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