#23 - 13/01/09 - Rangers (h) - Scottish Cup

[Corned Beef]

Jeez-oh, Coisty's a half-wit.

"We weathered the storm a little bit and scored a couple of very good goals."

They were the worst goals we've conceded in about 4 months! One was offside, and the other was an own goal!

Clueless.

Just seen the highlights on Skysports news and the second goal was not offside.

[Blu & White]

Well,where do you start? Yes, saints played well FIRST HALF but seemed to lose a lot of belief when the first goal went in - not going to criticise Alan Main cos ' he has more than justified himself previously- as did the home supporters. The lack of pace seemed to be the biggest undoing . I feel if Saints had got right in Rangers faces more and played with more pace they would have at least have had a replay. But........would we have wanted it? I am sure offered the options everyone would rather now concentrate on the league??

The support was poor in my opinion, too many half hearted, part timers and a***holes who were only there cos' it was Rangers(probably support the other lot?) A shame really because a good , vocal support might have driven the team on more. Got to laugh at the holier than thou attitude - supporters can dish out but they can't take it back. Stop proving the west coast right- get a life! You all come on here and dish it out at games but horror - don't let the bad men say anything back!!!! FFS .

However, things to learn if we go up this season...

1. Play with passion and heart against the old firm - they don't like it up em!

2. Let the part timers and old firm supporters who are only there to cos bother , P*** off back under there stone.

3.Switch those bloody awful boards down a bit! Christ it was like a 90 minute eye test with the bright light continually taking your attention off the game. I am glad I didn't have to see it at the time.

[chopper]

My quick view - first half we were excellent. Kept Rangers to long distance pot shots and created some excellent openings with some excellent football. However, we go behind due to the only difference betweent he 2 sides - the goalkeepers. McGregor made 2 excellent saves (from Liam and Jacko) and 1 very good save (from Swanks) and the only thing Main has to in the opening stanza he fluffs and it leads to chaos at the back and the opening goal.

Second half we were very poor. I can understand why Del took Hanlon off - he had played well but seemed to be starting to tire after a hard shift up and down the left flank and it allowed us to bring on Sheerin to be a bit of a spark as the midfield just looked down and out to see if we could try to get the goal for the draw, however it left us short wide as Craig had been covering the defensive duties that Swankie had not been doing so when Craig goes to left back we are left with 1 player defending the left flank rather than the 2 before, hence why they got their second.

Overall, disappointed to have gone out but if it means that we go on another long run of matches without defeat and it allows us to keep extending our lead at the top of the first then we will just have to beat TFOD a couple of times next season when it matters!

Oh, and how good a deal could Hanlon be if we can get him on loan until the end of the season? Craig and himself look like they could form a great understanding on the left (though I know it was Swankie wide left and not Craig) and with a few more games his fitness will improve to allow him to get forward for the entire 90 minutes. Very impressed with the couple of games he has had so far.

[Kevin]

I thought that Del had switched to a 3-4-3 to try and get something out of the match as there was nothing to lose at that point, that left us vulnerable down the flanks as the wing backs were left in no-mans land as we have not played like that before.

Main had a howler of a night and should hang his head in shame. Watched it on DVD when I got in last night and he got a real slagging from the commentators and quite rightly so!! Why the hell did he try to play football from his own touchline instead of hoofing it into the crematorium car park?? And don't get me going about thenumber of times he came for the ball and missed, he should be paying this weeks money to Rutkiewicz for trhe work he did in clearing the ball.

Overall thought we had a magnificent first half though, Caff was unlucky to get caught out for the OG (please note I refused to announce it!!) but the work rate was phenomenal and Craig is fast becoming a long range shooter. Second half Rangers switched to 5 at the back when being attacked and that was what caused us problems. But as Chopper says, big difference was the goalies, one superb the other, well...........

[Noose76]

Here are the goals

http://kickscore.blogspot.com/2009/01/st-johnstone-rangers-0-2-scottish-fa.html

First one is totally avoidable on so many levels. Main, no one attacking the ball at the front post, Caff banging it in the back of the net.

[HertsSaintee]

Not much to add from the comments already made. Gutted to go out after our first half showing as we pretty much lost the place in the second, but I tell you if that's the standard of the Rangers team on the wages they must be paying for some of these numpties, SPL you are indeed having a laugh...

Observation time. 1) Can someone explain to me what it is about this Saints side that causes us to not break from defence WITH PACE?? It's not the first time this season I've noticed this, and it happened again last night. Rangers attack breaks down, midfield get the ball, but instead of bearing down on them quickly (those Rangers centre backs were crying out for it), too often the likes of Miller and Swankie would trundle up the field with the ball as if waiting for (more) support, allowing Rangers to get back en masse. It's not as if we don't have pace in midfield to play this sort of game. 2) We need to move the ball between players faster generally - a number of our players often get caught in possession by delaying the simple quick pass. Rangers showed us the merit of this with their second.

Honourable mention to the two old plonkers sitting behind me who slagged Jody off all match. Before he received a pass it was "och, he'll just pass the ba' back...", even when it was clear Jody was demonstrating a good range of passing, and doing really well RETAINING POSSESSION FOR SAINTS. :evil: They were also having a go at the guy sitting next to me for standing up. Honest to god, the guy stood up TWICE, once when Liam's shot was saved and once when a Saints player was halved in the second half. Pity the folk who have to sit in front of them every week - makes you wonder why some folk bother to turn up if they're that unhappy?

[chopper]

Not much to add from the comments already made. Gutted to go out after our first half showing as we pretty much lost the place in the second, but I tell you if that's the standard of the Rangers team on the wages they must be paying for some of these numpties, SPL you are indeed having a laugh...

Observation time. 1) Can someone explain to me what it is about this Saints side that causes us to not break from defence WITH PACE?? It's not the first time this season I've noticed this, and it happened again last night. Rangers attack breaks down, midfield get the ball, but instead of bearing down on them quickly (those Rangers centre backs were crying out for it), too often the likes of Miller and Swankie would trundle up the field with the ball as if waiting for (more) support, allowing Rangers to get back en masse. It's not as if we don't have pace in midfield to play this sort of game. 2) We need to move the ball between players faster generally - a number of our players often get caught in possession by delaying the simple quick pass.

Honourable mention to the two old plonkers sitting behind me who slagged Jody off all match. Before he received a pass it was "och, he'll just pass the ba' back...", even when it was clear Jody was demonstrating a good range of passing, and doing really well RETAINING POSSESSION FOR SAINTS. :evil: They were also having a go at the guy sitting next to me for standing up. Honest to god, the guy stood up TWICE, once when Liam's shot was saved and once when a Saints player was halved in the second half. Makes you wonder why some folk bother to turn up if they're that unhappy?

Herts - may I put your points 1 and 2 with your point about Jody retaining possession and say you have answered your own point?

As someone who doesn't get as often as I like to and has had the opportunity to officiate at a couple of the closed door games, the one thing that is clearly evident is the amount of times the defensive and midfield players look for Morris as their first move before looking for another of their teammates. This is why we don't break quickly enough - something that was very evident, especially after Bougherra went on his Maradona-esque run up the park and he was back in defence before we'd even got past the half way line.

Not wanting to turn this into another Morris debate I should point out that he was covered well by Mendes all night, meaning he had to go sideways or back to keep possession but we failed to take advantage of Rangers clearly man marking him by getting the ball to Craig or Millar often enough to break forward with a bit more pace and venom. Personally I feel Millar's poor performance (in relativity to previous performances I have seen) was down to him not seeing enough of the ball. This became especially evident as Rangers effectively played 4-5-1 after Caff scored the own goal with Miller wide left and we didn't attack that flank nearly enough.

[Tranmere Saintee]

Try not to come on and just slag everybody and everything (very difficult at times).

Thanks Saints for trying your best and just coming up short against the overpaid Woolies rejects, their value in the transfer market must have plummeted last night to complete and utter negative equity - I am sure Birmingham will be heaving a sigh of relief!!

Special thanks to 101 for not letting us down and winning me a tenner in a private bet made before kick-off that whatever happened it would be either Dels fault if we lost and no mention if we won.

[Broon]

I think the fact that we are disappointed we didn't beat them shows how far we have come. We are a first division side which consists of players who collectively cost less than one of Rangers poorer players yet we played good football and tried to take the game to them. Mistakes were made fair enough but that's why we are not a team trying to win the SPL. We will learn and a few of our players showed last night that they are good enough for the SPL. They just need to make sure we get there now.

[SingaporeSaint]

Yeh, a big round of applause to Saints boys for giving it a real go. Sounds like we had some inspiring performances in the first half.

[HertsSaintee]

I think the fact that we are disappointed we didn't beat them shows how far we have come. We are a first division side which consists of players who collectively cost less than one of Rangers poorer players yet we played good football and tried to take the game to them. Mistakes were made fair enough but that's why we are not a team trying to win the SPL. We will learn and a few of our players showed last night that they are good enough for the SPL. They just need to make sure we get there now.

Agree 100%. Good post, Broon

[Blu & White]

Yes, things went wrong and not everything to plan . But on that showing I honestly believe Saints would be top 6 in the SPL.

Well done to the players, Del and Doc!!!!

[Johnstoun]

7,746 reported attendance on the Beeb. Add that to the TV money and it should be £100k or more in the kitty for Saints.

[SaintSam1884]

Millar's performance deteriorated completely as the second half went on. Was extremely disappointed at his refusal to hoof the ball in the box.

Millar has never played well when asked to play in the wide right position, so when we have the naturally right footed Gavin Swankie playing at left midfield, with the left footed Liam Craig playing in the middle alongside Jody Morris, it baffles me. Del needs to get back to basics. Swankie can harp on about the left being his preferred side all he wants but he is predominantly right footed and always plays better - in an attacking sense - on the right.

[101 Saint]

Try not to come on and just slag everybody and everything (very difficult at times).

Thanks Saints for trying your best and just coming up short against the overpaid Woolies rejects, their value in the transfer market must have plummeted last night to complete and utter negative equity - I am sure Birmingham will be heaving a sigh of relief!!

Special thanks to 101 for not letting us down and winning me a tenner in a private bet made before kick-off that whatever happened it would be either Dels fault if we lost and no mention if we won.

Defend the subs made last night.

[Macarius]

Everything I could say has already been said so I'll leave with this parting thought.

The entire Saints Squad costs less than a months wages for Pedro Mendes.

And they could only beat the wee Perth saints 2-0.

Yeah, doesn't say a lot for Rangers does it.

[SaintSam1884]

I try not to let the posts on here get me riled and everyone is entitled to voice their opinion well here's mine; it's not Del that's appalling, it's you. Your team go out against supposed much higher quality opposition, pretty much play them off the park in the 1st half and are by no means out of it after the break and you come straight on here to criticise the boss? On the specifics, the commentators were right, Swankie was one of our best players in the first half. I will give you that I was also surprised by the withdrawl of Hanlon (excellent again) but perhaps he felt Sheerin's class and experience could be useful at that point?

As much as I believe a lot of 101 Saints posts are nonsense, I'm going to stick up for him a bit here. Saints were in it in the first half, yes. We were practically controlling the game and taking it to Rangers who didn't seem to have much of a response. Had Alan Mains decision making been a little better, we could have feasibly gone into the break all even. However, we didn't but even at 1-0, the game is not lost.

Holmes was being marked pretty effectively by the big defence Rangers have at their disposal and his inability to run renders him ineffective if he can't win in the air. It was blatantly clear in the run up to the Jackson substitution that it was Holmes who was tiring, and getting nothing out of his markers, not Jackson who was making fantastic little runs which - if seen by a Saints player - would've split the Rangers defence wide open. Taking Jackson off for Samuel who has never really shown an ability to play off of Holmes was silly. Samuel had little impact when he came on, and Holmes continued to lose his battles in the air.

If that substitution wasn't bad enough, Del then decided to remove probably our best defender in favour of bringing Sheerin into the midfield and moving Craig back. In our league, a sub like that is fine but against the quality of a side like Rangers, is crazy. Perhaps he felt Hanlon wasn't getting forward in support of the midfield enough, and that Craig would do so but on the flip side, Craig is miles out of his depth at left back against the sort of players Rangers have. The game was pretty open at 1-0 so as I said in my original post, the substitution was probably well intentioned but in reality, you still have to defend against teams like Rangers. You can't underestimate the pace and quality some of their players possess.

I don't think it's unfair to criticise the tactical decisions made by the manager last night in very much the same way I don't think it's unfair to criticial the decision made by Alan Main not to put the ball out of play.

[Broon]

Millar has never played well when asked to play in the wide right position, so when we have the naturally right footed Gavin Swankie playing at left midfield, with the left footed Liam Craig playing in the middle alongside Jody Morris, it baffles me. Del needs to get back to basics. Swankie can harp on about the left being his preferred side all he wants but he is predominantly right footed and always plays better - in an attacking sense - on the right.

Arguably Craig's best games for Saints have been in the middle. Also you could argue Swankie has played better for Saints on the left (remember his right wing display at Clyde?). I've never been hugely impressed by Millar - I don't think he has setup or scored a single goal for Saints - central midfield or not.

[Broon]

Defend the subs made last night.

To be fair to Del - you don't stand in the dugout. You don't sit in the dressing room at half time and you don't take the training sessions. Maybe Jacko said to Del at half time I'm getting tired - give me 15 minutes and I'm done. Maybe Hanlon signaled to Del he was tired, or injured? Maybe Jacko had a slight knock? I will admit that it was two WTF moments for me when the subs were made. However, until Del admits they were tactical and not enforced we can't really complain or criticise the guy.

Yes the Subs didn't help us but they may have been enforced.

[SaintSam1884]

I don't like watching Swankie on the left side at all. I think his desire to play the ball with his right foot slows him down in a way it doesn't when he's playing on the right. I also think that same tendancy causes him to cut in 90% of the time rather than take it to the line in the way Hanlon and Craig were doing against Clyde. We could argue all day though. Different people see players and games from different perspectives.

[SaintSam1884]

To be fair to Del - you don't stand in the dugout. You don't sit in the dressing room at half time and you don't take the training sessions. Maybe Jacko said to Del at half time I'm getting tired - give me 15 minutes and I'm done. Maybe Hanlon signaled to Del he was tired, or injured? Maybe Jacko had a slight knock? I will admit that it was two WTF moments for me when the subs were made. However, until Del admits they were tactical and not enforced we can't really complain or criticise the guy.

Yes the Subs didn't help us but they may have been enforced.

I'm not going to push my feelings on the substitutions quite as ferociously as 101 Saints and I do agree with you to an extent. However, I feel that even in the event of the substitutions being forced substitutions, there were better options on the bench for the second one in particular. Swankie was anonymous in the second half, so he could've gone off in order to accommodate Sheerin and if Hanlon was injured or tired, did we not have a left footed defender on the bench? It's becoming clear that McInnes was pushing to get something from the game but you can't forget the importance of defending. We never looked more likely to score after he made his switches, but we did look more susceptible to conceding.

[Radford 72]

Just had a quick glance at BigotBigot.com and this post jumped out. Airdrie Loyal says: "****ing *** wannabe arseholes, their songs were a disgrace tonight."

:laugh:

Anyway, anything I'd likely have added has probably already been said. Bit disappointed after our last couple of matches with them but result was fair in the end, we just didn't trouble McGregor in the second half. Competed well first half but need to score first against them.

[TheBigCheese]

I thought we were excellent last night until we conceded, we didn't get going again after that (partly thanks to Rangers shutting us down better in the second half). Can't complain about the result really.

The decision to take Hanlon off was a strange one and cost us the second goal, I think Swankie or Miller would have been better choices as neither really contributed anything in the second half.

[chopper]

I must admit, the Hanlon substitution for me was down to him having bombed up and down that left touchline for his entire game and with a very able replacement already on the pitch (Craig) then it made sense. Where it didn't make sense (and this is one of 2 criticisms I had last night) was that it really exposed our left back spot as Swankie's defensive ability was there for all to see - non-existant!

The second criticism was that Swankie should have been hooked instead of Jackson, however it was Jackson's first start for a long, long time and he just didn't look threatening 2nd half.

Re Holmes tiring - must admit I thought he remained one of our better options so had to stay on. A Holmes/Jackson partnership will be likely to bear fruit in much the same way as Deuchar/Jackson did last season in my view.

[garydavidson]

was it just me that notice how dejected jackson was to go off? the hunger was there from him.

radford are you seriously telling me there is a website called bigotbigot.com? or are you renaming another site? on my way up i past about 10 buses from airdrie.

we lost because we were just not clynical enough once again, a problem that haunted us the last few league games as well as other outings in the cup through previous seasons.