Saints v Stranrear updates

[Shaggy Jenkins]

Different team, different style, more in the wage budget........Still the same pish as last year, absolutly woefull, no idea long ball crap. Out of it by christmas again. Not that I expected us to win is, but thought we would be closer to the top than the potential 13 ish points (if midden win game in hand?) we are looking at at the moment. Need to get rid of the dead wood that was playing today, and that is a lot of wood!!!!

[Shaggy Jenkins]

Really dissapointed that we didn't win that game today. Totally dominated, they had one shot on goal the whole game from some really poor defending by us and scored a sloppy goal.

I felt there was a few things about our performance that really let us down however. The lack of any genuine width was a real problem. We were trying to go through the middle of their defence the whole match, and we had no option to knock it long until we put James up front. I feel Coyle has to do everything possible to get an out and out winger in during the January, even if it's only on loan, just to give us a different option when we face eleven men behind the ball like today. I know there's not many around, but we need to do everything possible to find one.

The build-up today was also far too slow, especially in the second half. There were so many times we had a chance to run at thier defence, and instead turned back to play a square pass or go back to the centre-halves. We have to raise the tempo, and have the confidence to take risks in going for the game. Scotland also had probably his poorest game for us today. Didn't look that interested and that should really be the type of game he uses his ability to take by the scruff of the neck. The lack of confidence among the strikers in general is also a worry.

Also can't believe the booing at half and full time, the team gave everything, we just lacked different ideas and options. The points we're dropping at the moment are going to make it hard to catch St. Mirren, but I still feel its possible if we win our next three and bring in a central midfielder who can take control of a game and a winger. I think that's going to be the key to our improvement.

Yup spot on there ma man

[templeofsaints]

Temple report is up now. FWIW I thought we were very poor today. Unable to make our possession or chances count and looking slow and unfit. The lack of movement off the ball at times was simply shocking - too often the pass was made and then someone just stood still. Nobody moved into space or tried to beat their man instead settling for a simple square ball.

Coyle should never have been on the park - he's simply not fit enough. Doris did more in 10 minutes than Coyle did in 80 because Doris has something to prove and is willing to fight for the team - something that Scotland, Sheridan, Sheerin etc weren't until the last 15 mins or so.

Stranraer are an ok team but we have to learn to break down 11-man defences - it'll be the same for the next couple of games. As for Corr, he's a decent keeper but I'm fecked if I'd want to see us with a goalie that spends half the time pondering over which side of the goal to kick from. :x

[blueheaven]

I pretty much agree with HeronAddict. Very disappointing result but I didn't think we played all that badly. We were producing some really nice football in the first half until they scored, and all that was letting us down was that one final piece of play in the last quarter of the pitch. It seemed to take us a bit of time to get the heads back up after Stranraer took the lead, but towards the end of the game we were really going for it. The shape of the team was poor and we definitely lacked imagination, but I don't think it's fair to say we lacked effort. There was absolutely no need for the boing at h/t and f/t - the club have chosen a young manager and we need to get behind him and show him some patience. There were always going to be errors made and disappointments caused this season.

I've said this before (on the old forum), but with every passing week it becomes all the more obvious to me that we still need to make the changes to the coaching staff that we've been needing to make for ages. I've got no problem with having a young, inexperienced manager, but when both of the main coaches are equally young and inexperienced I think it causes obvious problems. Who are Coyle and Weir learning from? How are they going to get better? I want them both here, but I strongly feel that the club should be bringing in an experienced coach from outwith Scotland who can bring in some new ideas and a bit of tactical nous. Even if we just get someone in on a short-term basis, as Sturrock once did with the German coach, I think it would make a massive difference.

As things stand, things just aren't quite working. I think that man for man we've got players who are easily as good as the players of any other team in the league, but we have far too many similar central midfielders and absolutely no width (which is ridiculous when you consider the size of our home pitch). As HeronAddict says, a quality creative midfielder and an out-and-out winger would make a big difference - I still think we need a better keeper as well, but that's less of a priority.

[blueheaven]

Need to get rid of the dead wood that was playing today, and that is a lot of wood!!!!

Is yet another wholesale change to the squad really the answer though? As I was saying in another thread, if you get rid of all of the players that you think are "dead wood", who on earth are you going to find to replace them with who is any better? We can chop-and-change the squad until the cows come home, but the fact is that at the moment we're a First Division club who attract First Division players. Get rid of the current guys and their replacements are highly unlikely to be any better. It's not as if there are loads of amazing footballers out there's whose ambition is to play for St Johnstone.

I strongly feel that the players we have are good enough to win this division. Look at the teams above us - man-for-man, none of them have a better calibre of player than us on paper. What makes or breaks our season is whether or not the manager is able to get them all playing to the best of their abilities and as a fluent team. So far he hasn't really been able to do that with any consistency - but I can only assume that when the board decided to appoint a first-timer, they were also expressing a willingness to give the manager time to make mistakes, learn his trade and get things right. We're all eager to see Saints doing well, but the fact is that Coyle is still in that early phase of his career and there's not much we can do about that other than wait and hope that he develops into a gem.

[MUZZ]

anyone who says we werent too bad today should be killed IMO. toally void of ideas in first 80 mins and when we did get chances we totally van vossened them. we were shite until sheerins goal and ...

WE WILL BE PLAYNING FIRST DIVISION FITBA UNLESS THESE BOYS GET THEIR FINGER OOT THEIR ARSES

[templeofsaints]

Is yet another wholesale change to the squad really the answer though? As I was saying in another thread, if you get rid of all of the players that you think are "dead wood", who on earth are you going to find to replace them with who is any better? We can chop-and-change the squad until the cows come home, but the fact is that at the moment we're a First Division club who attract First Division players. Get rid of the current guys and their replacements are highly unlikely to be any better. It's not as if there are loads of amazing footballers out there's whose ambition is to play for St Johnstone.

I don't think we need wholesale changes to the squad and certainly injuries are causing a problem just now (most of the time the players look like they haven't trained all week), but we are lacking creativity on the park. Guys like Stevenson, Sheridan, Savo, Scotland etc all have the ability to turn a game but seem happy to play the safe ball most of the time - I lost count of the number of times that the ball was played square today. There was a real difference when Doris came on and it makes me think that the likes of McManus, Mooner possibly deserve their chance soon - too many of the current first team choices are lacking the conviction or willingness to try and take the game to their opponents (how much of that is a hangover from last season I don't know). We know that on paper we're as good as any team in this league but there is a lack of belief come 3pm on a Saturday that we can show it.

[Shaggy Jenkins]

I don't think we need wholesale changes to the squad and certainly injuries are causing a problem just now (most of the time the players look like they haven't trained all week), but we are lacking creativity on the park. Guys like Stevenson, Sheridan, Savo, Scotland etc all have the ability to turn a game but seem happy to play the safe ball most of the time - I lost count of the number of times that the ball was played square today. There was a real difference when Doris came on and it makes me think that the likes of McManus, Mooner possibly deserve their chance soon - too many of the current first team choices are lacking the conviction or willingness to try and take the game to their opponents (how much of that is a hangover from last season I don't know). We know that on paper we're as good as any team in this league but there is a lack of belief come 3pm on a Saturday that we can show it.

I Will retract the wholesale changes.......However midfield is weak not one of them in theres first thought is to take the ball down control it and pass. it just get headed or punted or bobbles about and we loose possession. We are also in desperate need of a centre back that can put his foot on it and play a pass into the midfield not just head it as far as he can or punt it as far as he can. We give possession away far to easily unless we are given miles of space to play......even then we will probably pass sideways

[Cagey]

Agree with most of what heronaddict says except the effort side. I think this team are out paced,outplayed & outmussled by most teams that comes to McD. Yes we have plenty possesion but that is because we pass the ball back & forward across the back. There is no width no pace & no incisiveness.

The game is played at too slow a pace & teams have plenty time to fill in at the back. Yes Stanraer packed their defence & came for a draw & you have to jockey for an opening but we are not going to win many games at walking pace.

There were many times today when all the players were on the left side of the park with acres of space on the right. stevo spent most of the time in midfield. What was that all about?Why did Coyle not sub himself at half time. He did nothing in the second half except dive about & whinge at the ref. Dorris did more in the 10 mins he was on than Coyle did all game.

We have to bring in some younge guys with pace & effort. Too many of these guys look asif they are just their to pick up their wages. It looks like the panel were right about Jason. He is just not good enough Sheerin is slow & never makes the right run or offer options. The set pices & throw ins are a disgrace .Same every time movement resulting in the opposition winning posetion most times.

[inex]

They had 1 shot on goal anf 2 off-goal, we had 5 on-goal; and 6 off-goal. In my opinion we should be converting far more of these shoes and not wasting them!!

Saints MAD says Saints had 16 with 10 on and 6 off target, while Stranraer had 3 shots with one on target. Against Clyde it was pretty even, but against Dundee Saints had double the chances and lost. Way too many dropped points lately, it can't continue if there are any serious promtotion hopes. You would have to agree that a winger is needed, preferably one that can play both sides who is fast and can cross. That would be a bonus. Some young players could do the trick also, and maybe the next couple of games are a good chance to give it a go.

[Broggy Man]

I agree with you that that December run of form (can't believe it was almost a whole year ago!) was vital for us last season, but McGregor was just one player out of 11 who brought us those results. There's no way of proving whether or not that run would have been any different had there been someone else in goal - I personally don't think he contributed any more to it than any of the other guys who were playing in the team at the time

People keep on about the December run but to be honest look at the fixtures close your eyes and i think you will come up with the same thoughts we rode our luck its in the past forget about it.

We dont need a keeper he will bring nothing to Saints as a untit the Cat is doing fine. We need a right back who can distribute the ball get forward and who can at least deliver a cross that gets past the first man. We need an attacking midfielder who can link between midfield and attack and can get into the box. We also need to offload the dead wood we have on the wage bill. It is big decision time for GB in January or perhaps even now does he invest by getting rid of the players OC does not see in his plans and allow OC to contact players now with a view to January or do we accept that players are under contract and look forward to next season when the OC building program will continue.

If it is t be the first i will make the unpopular suggestions.

Stevenson OUT (he has had his chance yes he has immproved but not enough)

Sheerin OUT ( he blows hot and cold far to often only plays well when the team plays well cannot dig us out a hole when we need him does have talent seen it in the past but you can count his great performances on one hand)

Hannah OUT (our esteemed club captain joke he does not care about the club shown by his recent appearance in dundee pub quizz rather than appearing at the Hamilton game)

Campbell OUT (need i say more?????)

Paterson OUT (shame because i like his style and need to get the ball on the deck but Saints cannot afford this)

Henry OUT (he offers nothing but overtime for the physio i have no dobt that he was at one time a good pro but consistency can only be gained with games he spends more time on the crocks list)

Fotheringham OUT (i would rather have a youngster backing up Stanic than a crock)

Keyring ???? (not sure about him would like to see him being fit and having a run he is a hard tackler works so maybe again injury prone so maybe should be shown the door)

We do have Dyer Mooner etc to fill the injury gaps but we need to offload but I think it may be to late for this season but GB and OC should and probably will be talking about changes it is really down to GB wether he has the bottle to do it as even if the league is out of our grasp this season we wouldnt be going through the gelling process next and would be in a position to pick and choose during the summer break without hunting down what was left.

and

For gods sake give Sheriden another year's contract before Gretna or someone hunt him down with big money talk..

Sorry if this upsets BH (wizard) and others but look at the performances both in quality and number since these players signed and i dont think we will be far away from agreeing if of course you take the time to look...

I have said it elsewhere but there is no consistancy with our seasoned pros. These guys have to stand up and be counted.

Stevenson completely runs out of ideas after the first ten mins

Sheerin is more often out the game than in.

OC i remeber watching him play against us and you cringed when he got the ball on the edge of the box what has happened.

Whe dont have a right back period. Anderson was caught so many times yesterday and better teams would have punnished him.

Mensing was no better when he came on.

It is not all over yet but we do need new faces and need to hang on in Decemberif we lose one other game and the Midden game then i will concede that we are out te tittle race but Midden dont convince me yet!!!!

[Chansey]

Going slightly off topic here, i misseed the game yesterday, as i had football, i was at the clyde last week, due to my football being cancelled. But i thought the clyde game was a game we should have went out to get 3 points, seeing as st. mirren are so far ahead. No matter what we tried against clyde we severly stuggled to break them down., and due to this i was begging for OC to put big Kev up front, and although not pretty we could have played the long ball up to him as he was winning most of the ball in the air, it didn't happen however. I see he went upfront yesterday, How long up their for? Was it effective?

[blueheaven]

anyone who says we werent too bad today should be killed IMO. toally void of ideas in first 80 mins and when we did get chances we totally van vossened them. we were shite until sheerins goal and ...

We really weren't as bad as all that. We had most of the ball and created some chances. There's a thin line between having the fans screaming for change and everyone singing the players' praises. If we'd played exactly the same as we did yesterday, but Milne had put away his two chances (the one he screwed out for a throw-in and the header in the second half), we'd have won 3-1 and everyone on here would have been delighted.

I agree that changes are needed and we were far from brilliant yesterday, but I do think there's a real tendency on here to over-react whenever we don't win a game.

[MUZZ]

i dont think people are over reacting one bit. surely if we are to be challenging for title, 2 points v clyde and stranrear at home is below par. no-one is calling for coyles head here but we are rightly pissed off dropping vital points.

[Two Js]

For all those people saying how bad they thought Saints played on Saturday it was interesting to hear the Stranraer manager say that Saints are the best footballing team in the division. I think the QOS manager also said we were the best team he has played against. The sad thing is they both also said they thought St Mirren would win promotion because they were much more clinical.

[saintgscot]

here is the proof.

[slf]

wow how did ye do that?

[saint in exile]

Time machine

[slf]

Time machine

anorak

[Ali91]

So many players I loved in that starting x1! Sheerin, Scotland, Stanic, Sheridan etc... Was this forum around the year before that? Now that would make depressing reading!

[Pink]

More interesting to see how many posters there were back then talking about football.