Real Madrid Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Yet more trouble at half time in tonights European game When will they learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chansey Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 And people wonder why no one likes the english.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slf Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Yet more trouble at half time in tonights European game When will they learn cuckoos live in clocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooj Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 And people wonder why no one likes the english.... I just wonder why you have categorised the trouble-makers as 'English' as opposed to 'Boro Fans', 'criminals', '21 year olds' etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Wallace Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 I just wonder why you have categorised the trouble-makers as 'English' as opposed to 'Boro Fans', 'criminals', '21 year olds' etc... I too feel this post was uncalled for. I'm no fan of the England national side, which is a different although connected debate, but to come out with a sweeping statement like that is inappropriate and no doubt quite offensive to the many Saints fans who are English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunblanemike Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Jimmy - you've highlighted a problem I have with nationalism. I'll not bore you with my vision of a 'one world' but wonder just when is a scotsman a scotsman (or an englishman an englishman). I was born in england but have lived in scotland a fair chunk of my life and follow the scotland squad. don't know where i'm going with this but hope you get the jist. Much more worrying than rory calling me english scum is his spelling!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slf Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 And people wonder why no one likes the english.... british Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Wallace Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 mike - I didn't really want to start up this kind of debate. I am a Scottish nationalist, which to me means I am pro Scotland, not anti-English. That doesn't mean that there aren't aspects of the English media, establishment etc that don't irritate me, but there's a hell of a lot wrong with Scotland that irritates me more. I want Scotland to be a better place with a tolerant population, more social equality and above all a confidence that allows us to rise above the petty anti-Englishness that pervades and to an extent dominates our society. If you take the time to talk with most nationalists I think you'll find they feel much the same, so please don't fall into the trap of the unionists who it suits to blame political nationalists for the sort of sentiments portrayed by Saint Rory. Most of us just ain't like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunblanemike Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 I want Scotland to be a better place with a tolerant population, more social equality...... I want that for everywhere in the world, not just Scotland, idealist that I am. I did say one world - not one britain. I don't like labels but I most certainly aint a UK unionist and by reading between the lines you are more than 'just' a Scots nationalist (and I say 'just' as a way of widening what you are rather than reducing what an SN is). Phew, I'm too knackered for this - too many heavy discussions this week and I can't even go along and watch footy this week to get away from 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Wallace Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 yup, it's been a heavy week. Cups of herbal tea all round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finners Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 mike - I didn't really want to start up this kind of debate. I am a Scottish nationalist, which to me means I am pro Scotland, not anti-English. That doesn't mean that there aren't aspects of the English media, establishment etc that don't irritate me, but there's a hell of a lot wrong with Scotland that irritates me more. I want Scotland to be a better place with a tolerant population, more social equality and above all a confidence that allows us to rise above the petty anti-Englishness that pervades and to an extent dominates our society. If you take the time to talk with most nationalists I think you'll find they feel much the same, so please don't fall into the trap of the unionists who it suits to blame political nationalists for the sort of sentiments portrayed by Saint Rory. Most of us just ain't like that. ahmen jimmy 8) . Radford i dont blame england as a country for violence, but the fact is - Everywhere england fans go there seems to be trouble no wonder some of us scots try to distance ourselves from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranmere Saintee Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Radford i dont blame england as a country for violence, but the fact is - Everywhere england fans go there seems to be trouble no wonder some of us scots try to distance ourselves from it. That is one of the most pathetic generalisations todate - how many games have PL teams played in Europe this season without any trouble what-so-ever, yet 1 game and the tired old cliches are out again. It is only a matter of weeks ago that Rangers fans (representing Scotland!!) caused mayhem in Spain(?) - the last old firm game saw trouble all over Glasgow - how many games of late involving Saints have seen trouble before/during/after the game? So does this mean all Scotland fans are trouble where-ever they go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chansey Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 allright sorry guys, i didnt mean too much offensive with my comment, but as finners said the english and trouble seem insepartable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainstand Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 allright sorry guys, i didnt mean too much offensive with my comment, but as finners said the english and trouble seem insepartable! Would you be upset if someone posted that Scotland and bigotry go hand in hand it's as much a generalisation as yours. Or even Saints fans and violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finners Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 That is one of the most pathetic generalisations todate - how many games have PL teams played in Europe this season without any trouble what-so-ever, yet 1 game and the tired old cliches are out again. It is only a matter of weeks ago that Rangers fans (representing Scotland!!) caused mayhem in Spain(?) - the last old firm game saw trouble all over Glasgow - how many games of late involving Saints have seen trouble before/during/after the game? So does this mean all Scotland fans are trouble where-ever they go? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4789954.stm That is without detail as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chansey Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Would you be upset if someone posted that Scotland and bigotry go hand in hand it's as much a generalisation as yours. Or even Saints fans and violence. I wouldn't disagree scotland has a problem with bigotry, just the same as england has a problem with hooliganism. I don't really think you can class saints and violence the same way....This has all started relatively recently, and lets face it these incidents are rare and minor compared to what happens down south! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranmere Saintee Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 I don't really think you can class saints and violence the same way....This has all started relatively recently, and lets face it these incidents are rare and minor compared to what happens down south! THe major difference is that virtually every incidence down south gets national coverage, yet the press and the authorities seldom report violence/trouble up here. Has there ever been an old firm game without trouble? How often does it get national coverage? I have followed Saints for 20+ years now and have followed Tranmere for a lot longer ( ) and have seen far more trouble in Scotland than I have ever seen in England, yet the only time I have seen anything like national coverage is the non happenings in Inverness & Dingwall. In recent years that I know of at Saints games, we have had a fan glassed at Raith Rovers, trouble at the games against Dundee & Airdree, fans banned after a game last season (Cannot recall which game it was) - so please stop trying to make out that all is rosy in scottish football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corned Beef Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Scottish/English fans abroad are easy targets for thugs from the continent on account of the UK actually driving most of the hardcore element from the game. We are light years ahead of the likes of Italy in the respect. We should be proud of the efforts made to make football here easier to go to and safer for families. It may have diluted the game for some but the fact we get in a frenzy when theres a skirmish between fans shows how far we have come. It would barely have noted a mention years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 I have followed Saints for 20+ years now and have followed Tranmere for a lot longer ( ) and have seen far more trouble in Scotland than I have ever seen in England, yet the only time I have seen anything like national coverage is the non happenings in Inverness & Dingwall. My experience of being at English football games is pretty minimal, but I went to a West Ham game a couple of years ago and couldn't believe how friendly/family-orientated the general feel/atmosphere was, even when coming out of the ground at the end and the 2 sets of fans get mixed up together. It was a massive contrast from the feeling you get going to games involving the OF, where the general atmosphere is a lot more sinister and I tend to feel a lot less safe. I'd always associated a club like West Ham with a certain hooligan element, but that really changed my attitude. Having said that, in my only other experience of going to an English ground - Carlisle, when they were playing Saints - a group of locals tried to start a fight with me and BigCheese for being "Scotch bastards". It was quite funny seeing them not quite know how to react when we pretty much just went "nah, no thanks" and ignored them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 The only time I witnessed football violence was at my first and last English game; Lincoln vs Boston, the football was shite aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 i do feel that this is a good media story now and makes a good headline. as people have said - in league football there is next to no problems, i've walked through bethnal green and bermondsay in a palace top on my way to the den and not had any problems. even palace brighton matches are pretty friendly away from the ground. cardfiff and leeds have had a few problems in the past as have millwall but the trouble in uk is no worse than what they have in italy or the rest of the continent. sadly the media build these things up so that people assume there will be triuble. england games are different - there is clearly a group who have no interest in footie who go along for the after party... and to be fair the fa/police have done a pretty good job in controlling it as best they can. let be honest there are always problems with rangers and celtic so i think its much that same for all now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Madrid Posted April 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 The point I was trying to get across in starting this topic was that I fully expected the news to report "x number of British fans arrested" where as when its a Scottish club its allways"x Scottish fans arrested". The media side of things is being well covered in the other topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigCheese Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Having said that, in my only other experience of going to an English ground - Carlisle, when they were playing Saints - a group of locals tried to start a fight with me and BigCheese for being "Scotch b*stards". It was quite funny seeing them not quite know how to react when we pretty much just went "nah, no thanks" and ignored them. To be fair though that was brought on by some pretty horrible anti-English chanting from sections of the Saints support that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broon Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Here is something to consider : England is a bloody big place. Its not fair to categoise hooligans as simply being English - its not exactly accurate. The folk in the North of England are very different to those in the south etc etc. It seems to me there is group of casuals who attend all teams european games simply to cause trouble. These are known to the police yet manage to travel anyway. They are not necessarily fans of those teams, they just use it as an excuse to go for a fight. I have attended many Boro and Blackburn games in recent years and have never seen any hint of trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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