Calypso Kid Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I'm asking what he adds that no other midfielder adds, not what DM feels or why he started millar ahead of the rest. Not rocket science eh I think he is more suited to this midfield trio that DM seems keen on playing. None of the players I mentioned (Hardie excepted, but he isn't fit) would do the same job in there that Millar did. One of the things that I think is good is the depth and contrast in our midfield squad. I genuinely think we have something for most situations in the pool. Hell, I might even warm to Swankie terrorising a few full backs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintj Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 More chance of hell freezing over than you warming to swankie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver_blue Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Well are we talking generally here? I'm guessing there was an issue with Craig, Sheerin, Hardie, Moon etc. starting before Millar and to me they are all fairly competent midfielders. DM obviously felt he was the best man to hold the shape he wanted in that area of the park. It's not rocket science. They are all good players. We have seen Hearts & Motherwell change things at half-time after we'd been well on top. I'm sure Del will have to perform a similar feat against someone by switching the midfield to something more suitable for the task in hand. It'll be horses for courses. Irvine is also a good player who is having a rocky spell which as we've seen from last season he'll be more than capable of working through. Great to have Dave though. Strength in depth, "ye canny whack it". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSam1884 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I think Millar has done well this season but Irvine has cost us goals. Liam Craig should be starting every game. Grainger is the more suspect of the two full backs and needs a little more protection than MacKay IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintee4life Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 To early to make any real judgement. My thoughts on millar are well known on here so i need say nomore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Wallace Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I think Millar has done well this season but Irvine has cost us goals. Liam Craig should be starting every game. Grainger is the more suspect of the two full backs and needs a little more protection than MacKay IMO. Amazing how we all see things differently isn't it? I think Craig has had a poor start to the season and has been dropped justifiably. He has been running around like a headless chicken and lunging two footed into tackles. I'm not knocking his work rate but he needs to be a bit more disciplined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Saint Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Amazing how we all see things differently isn't it? I think Craig has had a poor start to the season and has been dropped justifiably. He has been running around like a headless chicken and lunging two footed into tackles. I'm not knocking his work rate but he needs to be a bit more disciplined. Some of peanut's tackles at Arbroath looked hot-headed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Wallace Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Some of peanut's tackles at Arbroath looked hot-headed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Millar and Morris shouldn't play together when we are at home IMO, they are too cautious. If/when Davidson's form drops I'd have Craig replacing him in the centre, I'm still not convinced by Millar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 You would have Swankie playing every week though. I would play Swankie ahead of Morais. Genuinely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Wallace Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I would play Swankie ahead of Morais. Genuinely. I despair, I really do. Since Morais has come into the team we have much more forward momentum and drive as opposed to the tortured slow build ups we endured for much of last season. In the SPL we have to move the ball quickly and Morais is always looking to receive a pass and tries to be creative. I like Swankie, but I simply can't accept he is better for the team than Morais. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike180279 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I would have one on each side whenever possible and play with 3 centre midfielders. Certainly at home against teams of our equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calypso Kid Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I would play Swankie ahead of Morais. Genuinely. The thought turns my stomach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 I despair, I really do. Since Morais has come into the team we have much more forward momentum and drive as opposed to the tortured slow build ups we endured for much of last season. In the SPL we have to move the ball quickly and Morais is always looking to receive a pass and tries to be creative. I like Swankie, but I simply can't accept he is better for the team than Morais. I despair every time I see Morais contributing nothing on the defensive side. Even Swankie tracks back to an extent and works far harder than Morais. It may not be the main reason he is in the team but he has to contribute more when we don't have the ball. Danny Grainger must detest playing behind him. I didn't think Morais had a good game at all on Sunday against Hearts and I would have hooked him at half-time for Liam Craig. In the second half I thought we were crying out for a change of tack and instead of having Morais wandering about on the wing when we were struggling I would have brought on Craig and tried to keep the ball higher up the park. I actually felt like 101 when I was criticising the manager for not making an earlier change in midfield! For me, Filipe Morais and Rocco Quinn are the same type of player - one good game with a spectacular goal in every eight matches or so. Morais doesn't hide as much as Quinn did but he contributes just as little when we're on the back foot. The number of times he gave the ball away on Sunday was really frustrating. I'll be honest, I didn't like Morais much at First Division level and I'm not yet convinced about him for us in the SPL. I'm sort of joking when I said I would play Swankie ahead of Morais, but then again I preferred Willie McLaren to Morais in the First Division! This is probably not an opinion many people will agree with but we'll see how things go for the rest of the season, maybe I'll need to revise my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranmere Saintee Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 I despair every time I see Morais contributing nothing on the defensive side. Even Swankie tracks back to an extent and works far harder than Morais. It may not be the main reason he is in the team but he has to contribute more when we don't have the ball. Danny Grainger must detest playing behind him. QUOTE] The only hard work Swankie does is hiding:roll: I got a phone call the day after the Arbroath game from my Smokie supporting friend laughing at how poor Swankie was now compared with how bad he was when he played for them and I could not raise any argument against his judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Wallace Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Even Swankie tracks back to an extent and works far harder than Morais . :laugh: Now I see you're just yanking our chains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted September 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 As john1962 put it, I respectfully made comments about Irvine and Millar. I didn't criticise them. I asked questions. Questions not based on one or two games, but now the second season in which they have been at Saints together. Despite many opinions and a good few replies, I remain to be convinced about Chris, mainly, but also Gary. I still hope I am wrong. If I am wrong, it will be all the better for the team and I won't mind at all being proven to be an idiot with regard to my commenting on/questioning of these two players. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintj Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 :laugh: Now I see you're just yanking our chains. swankie does what is required of a winger from a defensive point of view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Wallace Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 swankie does what is required of a winger from a defensive point of view maybe, but I wish he did what was required of a winger in winger terms! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintj Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 maybe, but I wish he did what was required of a winger in winger terms! give him a run of games and im sure he would, instead of start stop start stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Saint Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 The only hard work Swankie does is hiding:roll: I got a phone call the day after the Arbroath game from my Smokie supporting friend laughing at how poor Swankie was now compared with how bad he was when he played for them and I could not raise any argument against his judgement. Swankie had two men on him at Gayfield and still got some quality into the box. I assumed it was his swansong but I've recently heard that he will remain at Saints. I'm full or admiration for the latent talent of both Swanks and Morais but Swanks has more talent and greater application. I freely admit that Swanks has grossly under-performed in competitive games for Saints (as he has done at his previous clubs) but he has never had the full support of his manager/coaching staff nor the (home) support. These are crucial elements in the genetic make-up of most wingers; Swankie is no exception. It should be noted that his combative approach to the second game at EEP was greatly to be admired and yet Del elected to hook him! The confidence that he injected into Gary Irvine was one of the catalysts behind Gary's second half performance and sublime goal. He could yet achieve greatness in the game, but that seems unlikley now. I suspect that ultimately, he will have to live with his own regret; but he has many accomplices, Messrs Docherty and McInnes are two, the boo-boys are too numerous to list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff was right!! Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Swankie had two men on him at Gayfield and still got some quality into the box. I assumed it was his swansong but I've recently heard that he will remain at Saints. I'm full or admiration for the latent talent of both Swanks and Morais but Swanks has more talent and greater application. I freely admit that Swanks has grossly under-performed in competitive games for Saints (as he has done at his previous clubs) but he has never had the full support of his manager/coaching staff nor the (home) support. These are crucial elements in the genetic make-up of most wingers; Swankie is no exception. It should be noted that his combative approach to the second game at EEP was greatly to be admired and yet Del elected to hook him! The confidence that he injected into Gary Irvine was one of the catalysts behind Gary's second half performance and sublime goal. He could yet achieve greatness in the game, but that seems unlikley now. I suspect that ultimately, he will have to live with his own regret; but he has many accomplices, Messrs Docherty and McInnes are two, the boo-boys are too numerous to list. You keep backing Swankie and fair play to you for that, but whatever the excuses and arguments you give, the bottom line is that he just hasn't done enough in a Saints jersey. And by your own admission, his previous clubs as well. I've seen more from Morais this season than we got from Swankie in the whole of last season. I dont disagree you that he may be the most talented player we have but that's not enough if he doesn't produce it on a matchday. I hope he gets a chance this season and shows his talent but if it doesn't happen then surely he will leave Saints and unfortunately be known a failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott1884 Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 I never understand why fans boo individual players - is that going to make them play better? Criticise their performance after the game by all means but consistently booing a player only helps the opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Saint Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 I never understand why fans boo individual players - is that going to make them play better? Criticise their performance after the game by all means but consistently booing a player only helps the opposition. And despite repeated calls from Del and Owen it still happens at home. The stuff I heard on Sunday made me ashamed of the McDiarmid support. Deuchar, Main, Morris, Sammy, Grainger, Cup Tie, Garters, Morais and Irvine were all slated by the East Stand experts. To think we only managed to dominate the third team in Scotland for 45 minutes! It's gonna be mental when we play crap... Don't get me wrong, these guys are well paid, privileged characters but "live" criticism will never help a player who's struggling. Slate them on here, rubbish the manager if you please, but we should pack the park with positivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSaint Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Because the players our are avatars. They are beyond our control but at the same time we have exceptations of them, sometimes excessive. They represent us as a community and we have differing thoughts as to how they should perform. People being who they are, a negative attitude is to be expected from some/many. I myself would never shout abuse at a Saints player unless they did something proper honking ie: deliberate handball, two footed lunge tackles, miss an open goal from 10 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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