Muirton Park or Legoland

[blueheaven]

I think everybody that has posted on this realise what you are saying , as we are not as dumb as you make out ........ we simlpy were going by the atmosphere and the terracing that we miss and that some havent experienced .........so be unbaffled.

I'm not making anyone out to be dumb - but I think a lot of people have a nostalgic, romantic view of old, crumbling grounds that often don't really match up to the reality. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy watching football from terracing as much as anyone on here. But if you think that Saints would be playing in front of some sort of bubbling cauldron of atmosphere right now, had we stayed at Muirton, then I think you're grossly mistaken. If anything, we'd probably be playing in front of one man and his dog in the lower leagues (I'll use the Ayr United example again, as I think they're as good an example of this scenario as anyone), with zero atmosphere.

Besides, I firmly believe that it's people who generate atmosphere, not grounds. If people want to sing and chant from McDiarmid then they can do that, and there are many who do. Whenever I've been to Somerset Park or Station Park or many of these other remaining terraced grounds, I haven't witnessed many of the home fans creating much atmosphere (or any at all, come to think of it). If anything, these places are generally pretty quiet and peaceful.

[blueheaven]

I experienced all the above at Muirton too!!Under Willie Ormond we were playing in a much more competitve league,beating Rangers home and away,and taking on the Lisbon lions toe to toe,but there was also much more atmosphere in 20,000 terraced fans,Aberdeen ,on the day of the Ibrox disaster,although we lost,they were the second best team at the time,although i'm biased,and still think Saints played the best football at that time,bar none!I appreciate what Geoff did with McD,but Muiton was just as successful,with better crowds!

I'm not disputing any of that, but that's in the past and, for better or for worse, that's where it's going to stay. In order to be any sort of force in football nowadays, you realistically need to have good facilities in order to generate income and attract good players. That's what Saints have with McDiarmid Park, and that's where the success of the Totten, Sturrock and now McInnes eras has stemmed from. Do you really think our success of the 90s would have been matched had we stayed at Muirton?

[lethamsaintee]

Without McD saints would be in finacial crisis

I don't believe that is strictly true, but without the move we would be now on a par with Brechin or Alloa.

[Kilgour]

Leaving Muirton was a wrench at the time and I can hand on my heart say I have enjoyed many more good memories there than McD however lets not forget that by the end of its shelf life Muirton was crumbling along with the team and the support.To have a tardis and go back would be amazing but impossible under todays rules etc. Compromise? How about the crowds and atmosphere at games such as v.Airdrie on the way to winning the league.We only sing when were standing!

[geoff was right!!]

From a nostalgic point of view then would love to be back at Muirton but in reality it was time for the move. Maybe less atmosphere but at least we have a club and a ground that isn't falling to bits.

[Finners]

I'm not making anyone out to be dumb - but I think a lot of people have a nostalgic, romantic view of old, crumbling grounds that often don't really match up to the reality. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy watching football from terracing as much as anyone on here. But if you think that Saints would be playing in front of some sort of bubbling cauldron of atmosphere right now, had we stayed at Muirton, then I think you're grossly mistaken. If anything, we'd probably be playing in front of one man and his dog in the lower leagues (I'll use the Ayr United example again, as I think they're as good an example of this scenario as anyone), with zero atmosphere.

Besides, I firmly believe that it's people who generate atmosphere, not grounds. If people want to sing and chant from McDiarmid then they can do that, and there are many who do. Whenever I've been to Somerset Park or Station Park or many of these other remaining terraced grounds, I haven't witnessed many of the home fans creating much atmosphere (or any at all, come to think of it). If anything, these places are generally pretty quiet and peaceful.

point well put BH

[SlickDT]

McDiarmid is a great little stadium, with the exception of the seat colours!

The facilities are fantastic for a club our size and the matchday hospitality is unlikely to be matched by any other club our side. The atmosphere may not always be fantastic, but that is down to the fans- not the stadium. Any ground in the world will be create an atmosphere if they have 10,000 fans chanting, etc.

On a side note- I don't see why adding terracing would change the atmosphere at the park?

Due to being younger and not really having any great memories of Muirton Park I only really see it for what it was physically- a bit of a dump!

[Dave H]

Muirton was a hole, an embarrassment to the club. The place was falling apart and the stand did not have the relevant fireproofing. The pitch was heavy for most of the season to boot! Progress undoubtedly moving to McDiarmid Park, comfortable and safe with much improved viewing positions. One of the best surfaces in Scotland at the time!

Muirton Park also suffered from restricted access and any development of the ground would have been awkward to say the least, I dare say it could have turned out to be like old StMirren Park with the terrace simply turned into seats. When Muirton Park was demolished, they should have demolished Muirton tenements at the same time! But we all know that throwing money to old dilapidated buildings, such as the housing, is only a temporary measure before final RIP.

RIP Muirton for the memories, but the best success is sometimes to move on, and McD is a great example, 20 years on and I believe any redevelopment at Muirton would still not meet the asthetic value of McD. McD is probably still envied throughout the lower leagues of the Scottish game. I have not got one bad word to say about our ‘home’. Well maybe the turnstiles are a little narrow, but the build is at a very good standard!

[bobby kemp]

Muirton was a hole, an embarrassment to the club. The place was falling apart and the stand did not have the relevant fireproofing. The pitch was heavy for most of the season to boot! Progress undoubtedly moving to McDiarmid Park, comfortable and safe with much improved viewing positions. One of the best surfaces in Scotland at the time!

Muirton Park also suffered from restricted access and any development of the ground would have been awkward to say the least, I dare say it could have turned out to be like old StMirren Park with the terrace simply turned into seats. When Muirton Park was demolished, they should have demolished Muirton tenements at the same time! But we all know that throwing money to old dilapidated buildings, such as the housing, is only a temporary measure before final RIP.

RIP Muirton for the memories, but the best success is sometimes to move on, and McD is a great example, 20 years on and I believe any redevelopment at Muirton would still not meet the asthetic value of McD. McD is probably still envied throughout the lower leagues of the Scottish game. I have not got one bad word to say about our ‘home’. Well maybe the turnstiles are a little narrow, but the build is at a very good standard!

What a statement from a saints fan...,

muirton was the home and breeding ground for thousands of fans who have thousands of great memories there...MUIRTON is a great part of our history........ to call the place a hole and an embarrassment is something that fans who went there over the years will find is a bit strong to say the least..

yes it was run down near the end

yes it was the right time to move

yes we now have a lovely stadium...........nobody is disputing that but have a bit of dignity and compassion for the place that helped us be where we are today instead of calling it A HOLE and an EMBARRASSMENT..............

[bobby kemp]

I'm not making anyone out to be dumb - but I think a lot of people have a nostalgic, romantic view of old, crumbling grounds that often don't really match up to the reality. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy watching football from terracing as much as anyone on here. But if you think that Saints would be playing in front of some sort of bubbling cauldron of atmosphere right now, had we stayed at Muirton, then I think you're grossly mistaken. If anything, we'd probably be playing in front of one man and his dog in the lower leagues (I'll use the Ayr United example again, as I think they're as good an example of this scenario as anyone), with zero atmosphere.

Besides, I firmly believe that it's people who generate atmosphere, not grounds. If people want to sing and chant from McDiarmid then they can do that, and there are many who do. Whenever I've been to Somerset Park or Station Park or many of these other remaining terraced grounds, I haven't witnessed many of the home fans creating much atmosphere (or any at all, come to think of it). If anything, these places are generally pretty quiet and peaceful.

if i am not grossly mistaken......nobody is disagreeing with moving....

it is a nostalgic look back and people who new it loved Muirton.......... nobody is saying we dont want McD ............... THATS THE POINT PEOPLE WERE ANSWERING IN THE POST

[Jimmy Wallace]

I loved Muirton (and still occasionally have bizarre dreams that we still play there!) but moving to McD was the right thing to do. It solved our financial problems and gave us a state of the art facility. At the time I remember saying "over my dead body" but I am certain now that moving was the only real option. I'd rather remember the old girl as she was, than sitting there now with bits stuck on here and there. Having said that I still feel a bit sad every time I pass Asda.

[blueheaven]

if i am not grossly mistaken......nobody is disagreeing with moving....

it is a nostalgic look back and people who new it loved Muirton.......... nobody is saying we dont want McD ............... THATS THE POINT PEOPLE WERE ANSWERING IN THE POST

Not too sure I agree with your interpretation of the thread. The original question was: "If you could choose to go back to Muirton Park or continue to play at Legoland, which would you choose?". Your answer was Muirton - and I think it's fair to interpret that as you saying you'd rather Saints were still playing at Muirton Park, which is pretty much the same thing as saying you disagree with moving. Still, if you didn't mean your post to come across like that then fair enough. Misunderstandings are easy enough on the forum, after all.

[Coltrane]

Ach...I remember we had the same discussions when we moved from the Recreation Grounds to Muirton.....

[O'Rourke]

Ach...I remember we had the same discussions when we moved from the Recreation Grounds to Muirton.....

sigh

now your talking

[StDuncM]

The only thing I really miss about Muirton, when comparing it to McD, is that when we sang, we all sang, and raised the roof. The singing was more co-ordinated.

Oh yes................and the smell of that old guys tobacco.

[Crazymofo]

I must have missed something during my up bringing. At that time, if my memory serves, Muirton as a housing scheme was a horrid place to live that the residents wanted to leave ASAP. Additionally, Muirton Park was a decrepit hole crumbling to the ground with a team made up of junior players that would be out of their depth on a court in Bells sports centre.

You can correct me if I'm wrong as I never had the questionable pleasure of living in the promised land of Muirton during its apparent glory years of prosperity and plenty. It possibly was the greatest place to live and my recollection is a complete falsehood. And if that is the case I apologise for suggesting it was actually hell hole to live in for many of it's residents.

I did however go to Muirton Park on a regular basis. And it is no exaggeration to say it was a complete dump of a football ground and I base my opinion on my own fraught personal experiences. Blue heaven is 100% on the money with the points he makes and it absolutely staggers me that anyone would want to return to the days of second / first division obscurity and a ramshackle "stadium". It may have been a great stadium once, but it was way past it's sell by date when it shut it's doors for the last time.

Sure, the sing songs were great on the odd occasion. Doug Barrons testimonial and the SC Morton Quarter final ring a bell. But it was utterly shit for most of our league games the two seasons prior. I remember standing with my Grandad behind the goal for a game against Stenousemuir and being the only two people watching the match not under an enclosure. In total there was probably 250 people there, including visiting fans. That was NOT a good time. Yet that is the scenario McD saved us from repeating for the next 20 years, not the once in a blue moon big games wic ended up becoming common place because of the move.

It has to be McDiarmid. It's gotta be. Anyone that suggests otherwise either doesn't understand the implications of remaining at Muirton or can't remember the awful antiquated facilities. It was a shit tip, no question. MC'd spurred us onto greater things.

[SingaporeSaint]

It is sad to hear our fans refering to Muirton Park as a "dump" and an embarresment".

It holds for me many special memories of growing up as a young lad. Muirton was "special", end of story.

I quite like McD, its just the younger generation of fans don't get behind their team properly.

[wee john]

I must have missed something during my up bringing. At that time, if my memory serves, Muirton as a housing scheme was a horrid place to live that the residents wanted to leave ASAP. Additionally, Muirton Park was a decrepit hole crumbling to the ground with a team made up of junior players that would be out of their depth on a court in Bells sports centre.

You can correct me if I'm wrong as I never had the questionable pleasure of living in the promised land of Muirton during its apparent glory years of prosperity and plenty. It possibly was the greatest place to live and my recollection is a complete falsehood. And if that is the case I apologise for suggesting it was actually hell hole to live in for many of it's residents.

I did however go to Muirton Park on a regular basis. And it is no exaggeration to say it was a complete dump of a football ground and I base my opinion on my typical Scottish footballown fraught personal experiences. Blue heaven is 100% on the money with the points he makes and it absolutely staggers me that anyone would want to return to the days of second / first division obscurity and a ramshackle "stadium". It may have been a great stadium once, but it was way past it's sell by date when it shut it's doors for the last time.

Sure, the sing songs were great on the odd occasion. Doug Barrons testimonial and the SC Morton Quarter final ring a bell. But it was utterly shit for most of our league games the two seasons prior. I remember standing with my Grandad behind the goal for a game against Stenousemuir and being the only two people watching the match not under an enclosure. In total there was probably 250 people there, including visiting fans. That was NOT a good time. Yet that is the scenario McD saved us from repeating for the next 20 years, not the once in a blue moon big games wic ended up becoming common place because of the move.

It has to be McDiarmid. It's gotta be. Anyone that suggests otherwise either doesn't understand the implications of remaining at Muirton or can't remember the awful antiquated facilities. It was a shit tip, no question. MC'd spurred us onto greater things.

It was not a "shit tip".

It was a typical Scottish football ground and certainly one of the better ones.

Many Scottish football fans recall Muirton Park as a great ground to visit.

Great veiwing from all areas, great atmosphere, great vantage points for opposing choirs, a superb Main stand.

DO NOT BELIEVE THE RUBBISH SOME ARE SPOUTING IT WAS A FANTASTIC PLACE.

of course we done the right thing by moving and were well ahead of the times by doing so, but Muirton Park was a superb Scottish football stadium.

[MUZZ]

It was not a "shit tip".

It was a typical Scottish football ground and certainly one of the better ones.

Many Scottish football fans recall Muirton Park as a great ground to visit.

Great veiwing from all areas, great atmosphere, great vantage points for opposing choirs, a superb Main stand.

DO NOT BELIEVE THE RUBBISH SOME ARE SPOUTING IT WAS A FANTASTIC PLACE.

of course we done the right thing by moving and were well ahead of the times by doing so, but Muirton Park was a superb Scottish football stadium.

bang on John man.

[wee john]

It was not a "shit tip".

It was a typical Scottish football ground and certainly one of the better ones.

Many Scottish football fans recall Muirton Park as a great ground to visit.

Great veiwing from all areas, great atmosphere, great vantage points for opposing choirs, a superb Main stand.

DO NOT BELIEVE THE RUBBISH SOME ARE SPOUTING IT WAS A FANTASTIC PLACE.

of course we done the right thing by moving and were well ahead of the times by doing so, but Muirton Park was a superb Scottish football stadium.

I would like to add that McD is also a superb stadium, as a Saints fan i am as proud of McD as i was of Muirton.

So called "real fitba toons" had worse stadiums than Saints,

Falkirk, Airdrie, Well, Hamilton, Morton, Dumbarton, St Mirren.

hibs aberdeen and Dundee Utd never even had pitch length enclosures.

have to say though Rugby Park and east end park were superb stadiums too.

[Ray Blair]

I loved going to Muirton Park but to be honest all these memories of 'the choir'

are a bit exagerated in my mind.

Sure it was good to shout at opposing fans but certainly in the last few years 'the choir'

was only a limited group of fans.

When I was young wagon wheels were huge.....but now Im older ,and my hands are

bigger ,they appear smaller.

We all remember the good things and I have plenty of memories of both grounds

and have no complaints about our new home.

The people who complain about 'a lack of atmosphere' need to spend more time

making a noise and less time complaining on here about it!

[Kilgour]

I loved going to Muirton Park but to be honest all these memories of 'the choir'

are a bit exagerated in my mind.

Sure it was good to shout at opposing fans but certainly in the last few years 'the choir'

was only a limited group of fans.

When I was young wagon wheels were huge.....but now Im older ,and my hands are

bigger ,they appear smaller.

We all remember the good things and I have plenty of memories of both grounds

and have no complaints about our new home.

The people who complain about 'a lack of atmosphere' need to spend more time

making a noise and less time complaining on here about it!

Hear here !!

[blueheaven]

The people who complain about 'a lack of atmosphere' need to spend more time

making a noise and less time complaining on here about it!

Totally agree with that - if people want to create a good atmosphere at McDiarmid Park, then there's absolutely nothing stopping them. I actually think a lot of Saints fans have got a bit of an inferiority complex when it comes to "atmosphere", quite possibly due to ill-informed/one-sided sections of the Scottish media banging on about it so often that many people have started to believe the myth. The reality is that the atmosphere at McDiarmid Park is no worse (and in some cases it's often better) than at any other SPL ground - in my experience you certainly don't hear much from the home fans when you go to the likes of Kilmarnock, St Mirren, Motherwell, Falkirk etc, and you definitely don't hear much beyond a peep out of the home support when you go to either Celtic Park or Ibrox. One thing I don't think Saints fans give themselves much credit for, though, is that we're often far noisier at away games than most visiting fans are when they come to McDiarmid Park. I've listened to a lot of Saints games on the radio this season, and in every one of them it's been the singing from the Saints fans, not the opposition, that's been clearly audible.

Edited December 5, 2009 by blueheaven

[slf]

It was not a "shit tip".

It was a typical Scottish football ground and certainly one of the better ones.

Many Scottish football fans recall Muirton Park as a great ground to visit.

Great veiwing from all areas, great atmosphere, great vantage points for opposing choirs, a superb Main stand.

DO NOT BELIEVE THE RUBBISH SOME ARE SPOUTING IT WAS A FANTASTIC PLACE.

of course we done the right thing by moving and were well ahead of the times by doing so, but Muirton Park was a superb Scottish football stadium.

I agree with you john wholeheartedly.

it also had an aggro shed .

[Crazymofo]

It was not a "shit tip".

It was a typical Scottish football ground and certainly one of the better ones.

Many Scottish football fans recall Muirton Park as a great ground to visit.

Great veiwing from all areas, great atmosphere, great vantage points for opposing choirs, a superb Main stand.

DO NOT BELIEVE THE RUBBISH SOME ARE SPOUTING IT WAS A FANTASTIC PLACE.

of course we done the right thing by moving and were well ahead of the times by doing so, but Muirton Park was a superb Scottish football stadium.

That's a fair enough point mate. And I do agree, it was fantastic once. But the point I was trying to make is that Muirton was not up to scratch during the last 3 or 4 seasons there. Given the choice of staying there or moving to state of the art McD the right choice to make was to shift. Otherwise we would have had a future of playing against lower tier opposition with a stadium crumbling to the ground. Like Ayr, as Blue heaven correctly points out (in my opinion).

I don't mean to be offensive of pedantic. It just seems that there is some sort of romantic ideal attached to living in Muirton and playing at Muirton park on these forums. And I can't get my head round either of these opinions. As I said, I may be wrong about the perspective I have on living in Muirton as I never experienced it. But Muirton park in the last few years was not a nice place to visit on a cold winters day in the second division with hee haw crowds. Which would have been the future had we not took the plunge and shifted up the road.

I mean no disrespect to Muirton in the glory years. But it deteriorated to a point that it was a terrible football ground facillity wise before it shut down. We agree that Saints made the right decision to move so I think we're on the same page really.