#22 - 18/01/10 - Forfar Athletic 0-3 Saints - Scottish Cup

[101 Saint]

I was wondering why he was topless. Linesmen weren't the best, either, although on the last call that got everyone particularly riled (when Milne was called off, much to his dismay and our irritation), I personally thought he was a bit offside and said so just as he was called off.

Oh dear - Murray was topless, Stevie Reynolds had his tackle out. I actually don't think Muzz was ordered to remove his top, was he? Stevie was definitely ordered to remove his shorts.

Milne was playing for good reason. I actually thought he had better fitness than previous outings. Milne was not offside for the one I where I told Savo not to worry because, "he doesn't understand the offside rule!" He was offside for the earlier one, which angered Del.

[CynicalSaintee]

Oh dear - Murray was topless, Stevie Reynolds had his tackle out. I actually don't think Muzz was ordered to remove his top, was he? Stevie was definitely ordered to remove his shorts.

Milne was playing for good reason. I actually thought he had better fitness than previous outings. Milne was not offside for the one I where I told Savo not to worry because, "he doesn't understand the offside rule!" He was offside for the earlier one, which angered Del.

And normal service is resumed.

I didn't see who was under the top, I just saw him the exact moment the top was over his head so I assumed that was what you were talking about.

[chopper]

Fourth official was a d***. Yes I know that Reynolds shouldn't have worn blue underarmour, but to make him strip off in the dugout was a terrible decision. Had he rolled them up, nobody would have known.

Unfortunately it is the requirements and the players know that as well, hence Saints will have a supply of blue and maroon under armour tops and white/blue shorts. No excuses and, while it may be petty, this is something that is now in its 3rd season.

Sounded a good win though and effectively a good pre-season run out ahead of a tough run of games coming up.

Edited January 19, 2010 by chopper
to add the shorts comment

[SingaporeSaint]

Congratulations to Kenny Deuchar on his first goal for quite some time.

[yahoorsir]

That game was a perfect microcosm of McInnes' reign. We won, and were decent in patches, but by gum we made it far too difficult for ourselves.

It was ball-breakingly obvious that the midfield would be too narrow, we played a middle three similar to that earlier in the season (Hearts away?) and we really struggled. Forfar played with four in the middle and had a right good go at us simply because in the middle they had a numerical advantage and had more width. How in God's name could McInnes not see this? Our only width came from Grainger's mianderings from the left (when he didn't lose the ball, of course). Forfar really should have been a goal up before we scored. And we still had eleven men back against Forfar for corners. All due respect to the Loons, but that is, frankly, absolutely laughable. But for a bit of luck they should have scored early doors.

What benefit was there in playing Savo in what was always going to be a routine win? We all know about Milne playing sometimes when he isn't fully fit, and Milne is probably still not fit enough to start, but he plays anyway. I'm not sure who to be more irate at - the Physio for letting him play, Steven for choosing to play, or McInnes for choosing him. Very poor form all round. All that ended up happening was Milne playing poorly and looking dejected when he came off. Again, awful, awful decision.

We play 4-3-3 with three centre mids and all three central stirkers for almost 70 minutes before Del realises we have no width and brings on Swankie? Jesus Christ. We play a half-fit striker for 80 minutes on a rock hard pitch? Downright stupid.

Sorry don't normally take issue with posters but some of this is just guff. Saints totally controlled the first half with the midfield and Jody in particular dominant. Forfar had one cleared off the line early on but after that were left to punt high balls to Templeton without any real success. Saints kept up a decent pace by moving the ball from flank to flank. Width was provided by both full backs and both firts half goals came from balls out wide. Only issue with me was that on occassion when keeping the ball at the back the passing was a bit tight.

Re Savo if he doesn't play how is he supposed to get match fit? I can assure you he was totally up for playing.

Overall a comfortable if unspectacular win that could easily have seen us score more goals. Pretty happy with that.

[Chansey]

What benefit was there in playing Savo in what was always going to be a routine win? We all know about Milne playing sometimes when he isn't fully fit, and Milne is probably still not fit enough to start, but he plays anyway. I'm not sure who to be more irate at - the Physio for letting him play, Steven for choosing to play, or McInnes for choosing him. Very poor form all round. All that ended up happening was Milne playing poorly and looking dejected when he came off. Again, awful, awful decision.

oh dear.....

[Radford 72]

Are most folk too speechless to post after reading some of the rubbish above? Don't worry, you weren't at a different game to the Derek McInnes fan club. We weren't too slick or fancy but we went out, put on a professional showing and never looked in any danger of losing the match. The manager was able to get plenty of game time into three of his strikers and a couple of the younger midfielders were saved ninety minutes on what looked a rock hard pitch.

Have to admit, Mackay is starting to really impress me at centre back. Wasn't convinced of it being a long-term option but he's done really well there and has struck up a good partnership with Gartland. It's also enabled McInnes to bring one of our best players from last season back into the side.

Only disappointment from the night was the admission on here and Pie & Bovril from too many chubsters that they had two (or more) bridies, which means I didn't get one. Raging. Station Park is still my favourite ground though I think.

[Jamie_Beatson]

I wasn't at the game, but not one little bit surprised to see 101 and CynicalSaintee tearing their hair out despite what was, by all accounts, an easy win for Saints.

Tell me something guys - how can you possibly enjoy going to Saints games when you go in with the attitude that the team selected is going to be crap regardless of what happens and that you're going to complain about it regardless of the outcome?

Also, surely Milne needs match time to get back to full fitness? And taking Cynical's point to its logical conclusion, you'd never play anyone ever because they might have a poor game. Poor form for selecting a player who has been passed fit and is desperate to be on the pitch? This being the man who was vital to our previous win at Motherwell? Jesus wept.

I'd be interested to hear from the likes of Radford and others who were at the game to refute some of the points made above.

[Kevin]

Unfortunately it is the requirements and the players know that as well, hence Saints will have a supply of blue and maroon under armour tops and white/blue shorts. No excuses and, while it may be petty, this is something that is now in its 3rd season.

Sounded a good win though and effectively a good pre-season run out ahead of a tough run of games coming up.

And exactly the same in rugby too chops!! Have had to call many a player back to remove items of uniform that are the same colour as the opposition

[Tranmere Saintee]

Are most folk too speechless to post after reading some of the rubbish above? Don't worry, you weren't at a different game to the Derek McInnes fan club.

Spot on Radford - it is pointless even considering replying to such rubish.

By the way I had just the one bridie and it was magnificent:D

[Kevin]

Spot on Radford - it is pointless even considering replying to such rubish.

By the way I had just the one bridie and it was magnificent:D

Had to miss out due to work

[CynicalSaintee]

Sorry don't normally take issue with posters but some of this is just guff. Saints totally controlled the first half with the midfield and Jody in particular dominant. Forfar had one cleared off the line early on but after that were left to punt high balls to Templeton without any real success. Saints kept up a decent pace by moving the ball from flank to flank. Width was provided by both full backs and both firts half goals came from balls out wide. Only issue with me was that on occassion when keeping the ball at the back the passing was a bit tight.

Re Savo if he doesn't play how is he supposed to get match fit? I can assure you he was totally up for playing.

Overall a comfortable if unspectacular win that could easily have seen us score more goals. Pretty happy with that.

Even McInnes was tearing his hair out at the performance, and must have said the f word in just about every sentence in the last half hour. Reserve games are for match fitness.

Much of the reason I had an issue with Milne playing was that he was part of a front three and was played out wide. He ain't a winger and sure as hell didn't play well as one. His contributions amounted to being caught offside and losing the ball trying to get to the by-line. He would have been as well going for a miander in the park, and I'd rather he had and we'd played another winger.

I wasn't at the game, but not one little bit surprised to see 101 and CynicalSaintee tearing their hair out despite what was, by all accounts, an easy win for Saints.

Tell me something guys - how can you possibly enjoy going to Saints games when you go in with the attitude that the team selected is going to be crap regardless of what happens and that you're going to complain about it regardless of the outcome?

Also, surely Milne needs match time to get back to full fitness? And taking Cynical's point to its logical conclusion, you'd never play anyone ever because they might have a poor game. Poor form for selecting a player who has been passed fit and is desperate to be on the pitch? This being the man who was vital to our previous win at Motherwell? Jesus wept.

I'd be interested to hear from the likes of Radford and others who were at the game to refute some of the points made above.

You weren't at the game, you didn't see what we saw, et cetera. As I said, the reason Milne was so poor was because he was played out wide. There were times when we seemed to lose all shape and 4-3-3 became 4-3-1-2 as Milne was behind our front two, before moving out wide again. Whether this was part of Derek's tactics I don't know, but Milne isn't a wide man so it was a bizarre decision to play him out wide. We have not played well in a 4-3-3 all season, in fact our worst performances have been when we have played in such a formation. The only exception being when we played 4-3-3 with wingers as opposed to three IMs and three CFs!

And I go to Saints games because I'm a Saints fan, not because I expect entertainment, victory or glory. They're bonuses that come when we get it right.

I wouldn't have been so irate at Milne played had he been played up front, through the middle as a striker. Instead he was played in a central three and seemed to miander between the right wing, the centre, and behind the front two. Of course I may just have misconstrued his hard running and graft for positional changes, I'm not the most observant, but it seemed to me at least that Del was being very naive.

Edited January 19, 2010 by CynicalSaintee

[Jamie_Beatson]

Reserve games are for match fitness.

That would be great, if there was such a thing as a reserve league. Milne is one of our top strikers and needs game time ahead of a big match at the weekend. And also, I tend to find he does spend a lot of time meandering around the park, doing a lot of running and putting a lot of work in. Kind of like what Kenny Miller does for Scotland actually. I highly doubt he was being played as a wide man.

As you say, I wasn't there, but people I have spoken to who were said pretty much the opposite of what you said.

[Radford 72]

I highly doubt he was being played as a wide man.

In between dispairing glances at the length of bridie queue, I thought he was playing in behind the two strikers although, like you say, he's a player that is all about movement so was always trying to get himself into space. Obviously when the ball went long to Deuchar he pushed right up looking for flicks but I have to say, I don't think that's one of his strengths, he's much better when the ball is on the deck.

[CynicalSaintee]

That would be great, if there was such a thing as a reserve league. Milne is one of our top strikers and needs game time ahead of a big match at the weekend. And also, I tend to find he does spend a lot of time meandering around the park, doing a lot of running and putting a lot of work in. Kind of like what Kenny Miller does for Scotland actually. I highly doubt he was being played as a wide man.

As you say, I wasn't there, but people I have spoken to who were said pretty much the opposite of what you said.

Closed door games, reserve games, tomato, tomato. [note to self, that phrase really doesn't work in text]

Certainly for a large part of the second half, until Swanks was brought on, Savo was very close to the line and was doing a lot of running down the wing, so he certainly played like he was a wide man. I definitely recall at least two occasions when he got the ball for out wide on the right wing and made a run down the wing and cut inside into the box, only to be dispossesed and he ended up trudging back looking pretty dejected with himself.

The Kenny Miller comparison is a fair one, but you wouldn't play him as a wide man, would you?

[garydavidson]

The Kenny Miller comparison is a fair one, but you wouldn't play him as a wide man, would you?

I just wouldn't play him

[CynicalSaintee]

I just wouldn't play him

No disagreement here. He's a donkey that gets about 5 times as many chances as most other strikers in Scotland and still messes up most of them.

[dunblanemike]

You weren't at the game, you didn't see what we saw, et cetera. As I said, the reason Milne was so poor was because he was played out wide. There were times when we seemed to lose all shape and 4-3-3 became 4-3-1-2 as Milne was behind our front two, before moving out wide again. Whether this was part of Derek's tactics I don't know, but Milne isn't a wide man so it was a bizarre decision to play him out wide. We have not played well in a 4-3-3 all season, in fact our worst performances have been when we have played in such a formation. The only exception being when we played 4-3-3 with wingers as opposed to three IMs and three CFs!

And I go to Saints games because I'm a Saints fan, not because I expect entertainment, victory or glory. They're bonuses that come when we get it right.

I wouldn't have been so irate at Milne played had he been played up front, through the middle as a striker. Instead he was played in a central three and seemed to miander between the right wing, the centre, and behind the front two. Of course I may just have misconstrued his hard running and graft for positional changes, I'm not the most observant, but it seemed to me at least that Del was being very naive.

I was at the game but did not see things as you did. Some clearly spent more time watching the gaffer and the bench than the game itself. I thought Milne, Peaso and the good Dr were swapping their positions across the front. An example was our second goal scored from a cross by Deuchar.

[St Mikey]

3-0 victory, clean sheet, 1st game in ages which helps for the visit of the tattie army.

Some folk worry too much bout performances.

It's also quite alarming the ease in which Deuchar scores against lesser opponents in cups and bounce games but not in the SPL.

[CynicalSaintee]

I was at the game but did not see things as you did. Some clearly spent more time watching the gaffer and the bench than the game itself. I thought Milne, Peaso and the good Dr were swapping their positions across the front. An example was our second goal scored from a cross by Deuchar.

The thing about having three strikers like that is, sure, while you have the ball and are attacking it gives you more options in the "final third", over the rest of the pitch you're largely outnumbered, either that or your strikers have to drop back meaning you lose out offensively if your strikers aren't grafters. Milne we can rely on to do that most games, but Peaso and Dukes I wouldn't rely on. Not that Dukes is lazy, just that he couldn't outrun a three legged turtle. We seemed to just ignore the midfield and go for the punt whenever things got hairy. There were occasions when Morris called for the short pass, only for it to be punted forward towards Dukes.

Edited January 19, 2010 by CynicalSaintee

[Sainteesean]

Deuchar will come good

[Jamie_Beatson]

Its interesting that Saints "went for the punt" so often and disregarded the midfield, when people are voting Millar and Craig as the top two in the MoM poll, with Jody also receiving votes. Those two things don't seem to square for me. I could be entirely wrong though.

[CynicalSaintee]

Its interesting that Saints "went for the punt" so often and disregarded the midfield, when people are voting Millar and Craig as the top two in the MoM poll, with Jody also receiving votes. Those two things don't seem to square for me. I could be entirely wrong though.

I didn't say that's all we did, I just said we did it too often.

[deej]

3-0 victory, clean sheet, 1st game in ages which helps for the visit of the tattie army.

Some folk worry too much bout performances.

Sums it up perfectly:)

It's also quite alarming the ease in which Deuchar scores against lesser opponents in cups and bounce games but not in the SPL.

I thought that too. Hopefully he starts banging them in before the end of the season, or he could be offski to the lower leagues.

[Mike180279]

I didn't say that's all we did, I just said we did it too often.

I have to agree, I thought a lot of that was pre-planned though due to the pitch.