Kyle Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 if, as you say, the handout culture here is a joke then why vote for a continuance of the same system? The facts are that a large proportion of households living below the poverty line DO have at least one person in the household in a job. Another fact is that the number of people who willingly do heehaw as you put it is very small, much smaller than the tabloid headlines would have you believe. In an earlier posting I asked what is it about the psyche of the Scottish populace that makes them vote to not have control over their own country? I have not seen a reply to this. Outsiders are bemused that Scotland is just about the only country in the free world to not vote for independence. Can someone really explain it please It pretty illogical really, isn't it? Some were scared by the threats made by Westminster/big business, although in practice that would've come to heehaw. Some 'feel British' (ridiculous I know), some just said no without looking at the facts and others didn't have access to anything other than the BBC/newspapers, who were fairly complicit in the scaremongering tactics which Westminster are now accusing big companies of doing regarding the EU referendum! You couldn't make it up. For me, a no vote was for big business and a yes vote was for the people of Scotland. Hope I'm wrong, but I think the majority have got this one badly wrong. Pelosi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honest Saints Fan Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Both my grandparents voted no (I know) because they didn't believe we would get a currency union (I know). Too many older people believe what they read in print media, the most biased form of media going. I believe if little changes in the next few years and the SNP/Greens etc keep gaining we may see independence in my lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AthensSaint Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 The women vote didnt help the YES campaign....too cautious was the reason given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Both my grandparents voted no (I know) because they didn't believe we would get a currency union (I know). Too many older people believe what they read in print media, the most biased form of media going. I believe if little changes in the next few years and the SNP/Greens etc keep gaining we may see independence in my lifetime. My grandparents both voted no too, because they don't like that Alex Salmond. I spent a long time trying to talk them round, but they just couldn't separate the independence vote from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AthensSaint Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 None of my grandparents are still alive but if they were, I am positive they would not quite understand why their grandson wasnt allowed to vote for a question that is so deep rooted in history. But yet tens of thousands of Polaks, Romanians and Albanians were allowed to vote. Apparaently they were in general "NO" votes as they were worried about benefits in an Independent Scotland. Alledgedly Oldermoresensiblepack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brogan Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Why are you avoiding responding to the guy's point? Do you think that scrounging by the rich is OK but scrounging by the poor is not? Peripherally, a fascinating piece about the iPhones4U scandal today. I didn't realise the iPhones4U had been bought by private equity partners for £200m, who then paid themselves a dividend of £223m - instant £23m profit - which collapsed the company. 5,000 ordinary jobs put in jeopardy and the taxpayer - you and I - has to make up £90m in unpaid VAT and PAYE. It's part of an upside-down world: our benefits cheats are chased by fraud taskforces, demonised by newspapers and followed by hidden cameras. But asset stripping and the much bigger problem of corporate avoidance goes almost unnoticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintee4life Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 And ofcourse all that would stop in an independent Scotland! Lovely day for fishing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honest Saints Fan Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 My grandparents both voted no too, because they don't like that Alex Salmond. I spent a long time trying to talk them round, but they just couldn't separate the independence vote from him. My grandparents really dislike him and it was a factor in their vote too. Anthens, those Polaks, Romanians and Albanians have more a right on the say of Scotland's future than you do. Better Together were telling immigrants that they would be deported on 19th September of their was a Yes vote. My parents had Councillor Ann Cowan at the door before the referendum and the way her and the BT canvassers insulted my parents was disgusting. Told my mum she would lose her pension in the event of a yes vote and would have no money. The only way she would be able to afford to live was either by being a millionaire or a relation of Brian Soutar. They also asked if she had a passport because she would need one to get into England if there was a yes vote. My mum isn't stupid so told them to get lost but you can imagine the more vulnerable believing them, especially an elected councillor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brogan Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 My grandparents both voted no too, because they don't like that Alex Salmond. I spent a long time trying to talk them round, but they just couldn't separate the independence vote from him. I think that was a fairly common. I was listening to a programme when they explained that it was often just an excuse. In other words, many couldn't articulate why they would vote no (because they'd then open themselves to arguments against it). By saying they didn't like Salmond, it became impossible to argue with them, as you found. If Salmond didn't exist they'd have blamed Sturgeon. My own parents voted no too on basic prejudices. I didn't feel it was worth upsetting them by arguing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garydavidson Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 My grandparents really dislike him and it was a factor in their vote too. Anthens, those Polaks, Romanians and Albanians have more a right on the say of Scotland's future than you do. Better Together were telling immigrants that they would be deported on 19th September of their was a Yes vote. My parents had Councillor Ann Cowan at the door before the referendum and the way her and the BT canvassers insulted my parents was disgusting. Told my mum she would lose her pension in the event of a yes vote and would have no money. The only way she would be able to afford to live was either by being a millionaire or a relation of Brian Soutar. They also asked if she had a passport because she would need one to get into England if there was a yes vote. My mum isn't stupid so told them to get lost but you can imagine the more vulnerable believing them, especially an elected councillor. What is even worse is the UKIP MEP from Scotland wants to give MORE power to councils, could you imagine the wreck the country would be in if that happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 And ofcourse all that would stop in an independent Scotland! Lovely day for fishing I'm not sure I understand your argument at all. You seem pretty unsatisfied with how the country is run from Westminster, yet you voted to maintain that? It just doesn't make sense to me to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 I think that was a fairly common. I was listening to a programme when they explained that it was often just an excuse. In other words, many couldn't articulate why they would vote no (because they'd then open themselves to arguments against it). By saying they didn't like Salmond, it became impossible to argue with them, as you found. If Salmond didn't exist they'd have blamed Sturgeon. My own parents voted no too on basic prejudices. I didn't feel it was worth upsetting them by arguing. I didn't argue with them really, just explained why I was voting yes and the potential benefits of it which they seemed quite receptive to. They had this ridiculous idea that Salmond would become some kind of dictator and we would end up like Nazi Germay/North Korea. That seems to have swept a lot of people under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintee4life Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 I'm not sure I understand your argument at all. You seem pretty unsatisfied with how the country is run from Westminster, yet you voted to maintain that? It just doesn't make sense to me to be honest.did I say I was unsatisfied? I think they're doing a goodenough job of clearing up the mess they were left with.Debt has to be paid back like it or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candalan Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Anyone who voted no has absolutely no right to complain about any of the verbal diarrhoea emanating from the shithole of westminster! And by the way there is plenty! I find it very hard to comprehend why people happily accept what London says, and the billions they spend on their own pet projects e.g. HS2, Trident, Crossrail, Aircraft carriers with no planes, etc.etc.etc. which have no benefit to the country they live in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancientsaint Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Its started already and I recall a quote from a History class "Let them eat cake"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 did I say I was unsatisfied? I think they're doing a goodenough job of clearing up the mess they were left with.Debt has to be paid back like it or not Effectively yes, you did say you were unsatisfied. You've had a good old moan about immigrants and "scroungers" and the country's "handout culture", yet all of what you've moaned about is happening with a UK government. You certainly don't come across as someone who's satisfied. Why is it that you don't respond to people's points when they mention the costs of corporate scrounging and tax dodging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintee4life Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Effectively yes, you did say you were unsatisfied. You've had a good old moan about immigrants and "scroungers" and the country's "handout culture", yet all of what you've moaned about is happening with a UK government. You certainly don't come across as someone who's satisfied. Why is it that you don't respond to people's points when they mention the costs of corporate scrounging and tax dodging?wasn't satisfied under the labour government remember it was them who made the mess. As for me not answering it's probably because I don't have the answer. Maybe something to do with having good accountants and exploiting loopholes that are already there. A good accountant is worth their weight in gold. You should maybe try becoming one then I could maybe employ you.......if you were goodenough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brogan Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) Good accountants are worth their weight in gold. Edited October 1, 2014 by Brogan blueheaven and Smarmy Arab 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 wasn't satisfied under the labour government remember it was them who made the mess. As for me not answering it's probably because I don't have the answer. Maybe something to do with having good accountants and exploiting loopholes that are already there. A good accountant is worth their weight in gold. You should maybe try becoming one then I could maybe employ you.......if you were goodenough You don't have an answer to whether or not you think something is OK?? That's odd - you seem so opinionated about everything else, but you have no opinion on companies who dodge tax, no opinion on corporate swindlers, no opinion on MPs fiddling their expenses? Thanks for the kind job offer by the way, but I'm not especially interested in either becoming an accountant or working for you. Brogan, Kyle, HertsSaintee and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Good accountants are worth their weight in gold. Put that away Brogan. That TOTALLY shows all those pesky benefits pinchers and scoundrals - you know, the poorest people in our society - in a reasonably good light next to our Nation's elite. We can't be having that. blueheaven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancientsaint Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Brilliant news today ---William Hague is standing down as an MP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garydavidson Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Brilliant news today ---William Hague is standing down as an MP The damanage has already been done. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-secretarys-statement-on-syria-arms-embargo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Brilliant news today ---William Hague is standing down as an MP Probably turn up next week decarling he's joined UKIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brogan Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Q: What was missing from the lives of the following people: the couple found dead after a 10-mile walk to a foodbank the man who killed himself when he was unable to pay rent the girl who committed suicide when she couldn't find a job? A: A good accountant. HertsSaintee, sixties saintee and blueheaven 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelosi Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Great reply Saintee4life...why don't you come back with a measured response rather than turn it personal!...Just in case you don't get it...I'm not a socialist, but do believe if the government wish to catch people that they believe are benefit scroungers , then they should also be looking and acting at both ends of the scale regarding Tax and expenses...they wouldn't even have to look very far! Again another socialist view. Why don't you become an mp? lmsaintee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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