ex-montrosesaintee Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 That is complete nonsense. A new standard in pot calling kettle black fazman1977, Barty1884 and Kevin James Is On Stilts 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergiefootball Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 A new standard in pot calling kettle black Nice to hear from you Montrose i see your still feeding off the Ritchie Brittain thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MySpazz Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) I am yet to discover a football club with a good one mind you ---------------------------------------------------------- Try AFC Wimbledon. Edited July 17, 2013 by MySpazz ex-montrosesaintee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The ghost of Jim Morton Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Right folks.. How about this. Saints charter a plane. In this case a 110 seat plane. They then tell the charter company WHERE, WHEN and HOW LONG they need said plane for. Charter company then find an available plane ( most likely that plane will NOT be in Edinburgh and in this case I believe the plane actually came from Scandanavia as the chairman said on the flight that it was the plane used by the Swedish national team). Once they have a plane, they start tallying up the cost. First cost will be actual hire of plane, then we have fuel ( and that will include fuel used getting he plane empty to Edinburgh, then to Norway , then back to Edinburgh and then back to where ever it is based). Next we have landing fees at both ends, parking fees for the time the plane will sit idle in Trondheim, cabin crew and the cost associated with that. Taxes most likely at both ends. Cleaning of the plane will aslo have to be costed in to the price. Also there will be insurance costs to be factored in At this point the charter company will now have a figure of actual cost of the plane. There is more though.... The charter company will now also organise transfers at the Norwegian end to and from the airport. Hotel rooms will then also be costed in as will the cost of travel manager who will be Saints point of contact over the trip. By this point, the charter company will now have a cost. On top of this cost, the charter company will then add their wedge and will arrive at the total cost should the plane travel full. This cost will be quoted to Saints. In the case of this trip , around £120,000 in total. Saints then divide this total by 110 and arrive at a cost per person of £1100 Should only the official party of 50 use this plane then it will still cost a fortune ( less 60 hotel room, a lesser amount of fuel due to less weight etc etc). It will be a fortune though and maybe at a guess ( and I am guessing a bit here) say £90,000. Hiring of the plane will be same as will landing fees crew and the like.. Working on £90,000 with only 50 travelling would actually cost the club £1800 per person. Now the club have to work out how much they can reasonably charge to make sure the other 60 seats are filled and the cost to the club is lessened. Obviously if they charge the correct price of £1100 the chances are they will not fill the plane so they come to a price of £850 ( which given the 60 seats were all sold would seem to be a sellable price) So now, they have 60 people travelling at £850 which raises £51,000. This taken from the total cost of £120,000 leaves Saints with a bill of around £70,000 rather than £90,000. This will mean the final cost for saints per staff member will be £1400... Edited July 17, 2013 by The ghost of Jim Morton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MySpazz Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) I've got a mate who owns a company called Sporting Options. I will ask him what the deal is and why Saints would have been charged so much. My guess, from speaking with him about trips he has done for Rangers' fans is that the cost is inflated because you are asking a plane company to deliver a plane to an airport where they wouldn't normally be flying in or out of - e.g Edi or Gla then going to a destination which is also off the beaten track - meaning they can't easily do a couple or three more journey's while the team does its thing. We seem to have gotten a SAS plane, which will be able to service a few routes in and around dropping our party off. All up the cost is prohibitive due to the time of year, the pick up and drop off...in those simplistic terms. It has to be said: St Johnstone are new to this club travel "lark" and i don't think they really know what they are doing!!! Not properly. The team ought to have flown regular service with kit etc sent on ahead via man in van. As musicians do.... Edited July 17, 2013 by MySpazz fergiefootball and St. Paddy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerthSeany Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 1 thing to note is there was no direct route from Scotland to Trondheim. I flew Ryanair cheap from Liverpool to Oslo then to Trondheim. Could you imagine the baggage football clubs carry? Not something your average flight holds. Plus the plaine from Oslo to trondheim wasnt exactly a 747! U wouldn't ever fit big loads of luggage on that domestic flight. Pretty much impossible logistically imo for saints to book public flights for players & staff with weight limits etc. The price of the supporters on a charter thats a different conversion. But for a playing squad there was no alternative option. Ps. Kev ur missing out not being here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Bar Toilet Attendant Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Right folks.. How about this. Saints charter a plane. In this case a 110 seat plane. They then tell the charter company WHERE, WHEN and HOW LONG they need said plane for. Charter company then find an available plane ( most likely that plane will NOT be in Edinburgh and in this case I believe the plane actually came from Scandanavia as the chairman said on the flight that it was the plane used by the Swedish national team). Once they have a plane, they start tallying up the cost. First cost will be actual hire of plane, then we have fuel ( and that will include fuel used getting he plane empty to Edinburgh, then to Norway , then back to Edinburgh and then back to where ever it is based). Next we have landing fees at both ends, parking fees for the time the plane will sit idle in Trondheim, cabin crew and the cost associated with that. Taxes most likely at both ends. Cleaning of the plane will aslo have to be costed in to the price. Also there will be insurance costs to be factored in At this point the charter company will now have a figure of actual cost of the plane. There is more though.... The charter company will now also organise transfers at the Norwegian end to and from the airport. Hotel rooms will then also be costed in as will the cost of travel manager who will be Saints point of contact over the trip. By this point, the charter company will now have a cost. On top of this cost, the charter company will then add their wedge and will arrive at the total cost should the plane travel full. This cost will be quoted to Saints. In the case of this trip , around £120,000 in total. Saints then divide this total by 110 and arrive at a cost per person of £1100 Should only the official party of 50 use this plane then it will still cost a fortune ( less 60 hotel room, a lesser amount of fuel due to less weight etc etc). It will be a fortune though and maybe at a guess ( and I am guessing a bit here) say £90,000. Hiring of the plane will be same as will landing fees crew and the like.. Working on £90,000 with only 50 travelling would actually cost the club £1800 per person. Now the club have to work out how much they can reasonably charge to make sure the other 60 seats are filled and the cost to the club is lessened. Obviously if they charge the correct price of £1100 the chances are they will not fill the plane so they come to a price of £850 ( which given the 60 seats were all sold would seem to be a sellable price) So now, they have 60 people travelling at £850 which raises £51,000. This taken from the total cost of £120,000 leaves Saints with a bill of around £70,000 rather than £90,000. This will mean the final cost for saints per staff member will be £1400... Saints also get £80K from Uefa plus a Home attendance of maybe 6000. I also expect cos it's a Europa League game they sell an awful lot of home programmes too. I'm just surprised how the club can be out of pocket but I am not an accountant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Bar Toilet Attendant Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Just a thought, maybe Saints & Hibs could have chartered a 747 and cut their costs plus take a lot more fans as well?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Love to have seen Vine survive a flight with a couple of hundred steaming saints fans. garydavidson and MySpazz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergiefootball Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Aberdeen -Trondhiem direct skyscanners. 1 thing to note is there was no direct route from Scotland to Trondheim. I flew Ryanair cheap from Liverpool to Oslo then to Trondheim. Could you imagine the baggage football clubs carry? Not something your average flight holds. Plus the plaine from Oslo to trondheim wasnt exactly a 747! U wouldn't ever fit big loads of luggage on that domestic flight. Pretty much impossible logistically imo for saints to book public flights for players & staff with weight limits etc. The price of the supporters on a charter thats a different conversion. But for a playing squad there was no alternative option. Ps. Kev ur missing out not being here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The ghost of Jim Morton Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Saints also get £80K from Uefa plus a Home attendance of maybe 6000. I also expect cos it's a Europa League game they sell an awful lot of home programmes too. I'm just surprised how the club can be out of pocket but I am not an accountant. On the ( and I have been told it is ) £90,000 I would assume they have to pay tax but like you I am no accountant so I don't know for sure. The one thing I am certain of is the Chairman said to the FFG that the club trip was gonna leave the club out of pocket and that the club WERE subsidising fans seats to the tune of about £250... Edited to add.. I also forgot that while over there, the official party including the team, will have to eat and have other expenses . Even 50 big mac meals will set them back £500. One suspects there food bill in their hotel will add another £5k to their costs.. It all mounts up.. Edited July 17, 2013 by The ghost of Jim Morton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Nice to hear from you Montrose i see your still feeding off the Ritchie Brittain thing. Not mentioned it for weeks. Rather looking forward to our own campaign starting tomorrow! 'mon the Saints!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergiefootball Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Still got that silly picture that boosted your ego. Not mentioned it for weeks. Rather looking forward to our own campaign starting tomorrow! 'mon the Saints!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 On the ( and I have been told it is ) £90,000 I would assume they have to pay tax but like you I am no accountant so I don't know for sure. The one thing I am certain of is the Chairman said to the FFG that the club trip was gonna leave the club out of pocket and that the club WERE subsidising fans seats to the tune of about £250... Edited to add.. I also forgot that while over there, the official party including the team, will have to eat and have other expenses . Even 50 big mac meals will set them back £500. One suspects there food bill in their hotel will add another £5k to their costs.. It all mounts up.. Didn't we finish third and get more income for our lofty position that we wouldn't have had for being sixth the year before? We may not make money out of our Europa League campaign, but we only got there by being third, so I see it as a whole package where our income from league placing is somewhere like £80k better per place. £250k improvement no? Approximations and assumptions apart, this season's campaign should not be a loss maker if our board continue the conservative approach of the previous directors. Then again, the bonus of third may have offset losses our poor crowds contributed to. Who knows? The board knows, and they're the ones whose job it is to know and act. Maybe we should let them get on with it instead of dissecting and second-guessing everything? Without ALL the facts we can look a bit daft commenting on this or that. Except Ghostie, whose posts are informed through his insider knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Still got that silly picture that boosted your ego. :D Never noticed that. Only meant as a bit of fun, sorry if it offended. 'mon the Saints!! Edited July 17, 2013 by montrosesaintee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Didn't we finish third and get more income for our lofty position that we wouldn't have had for being sixth the year before? We may not make money out of our Europa League campaign, but we only got there by being third, so I see it as a whole package where our income from league placing is somewhere like £80k better per place. £250k improvement no? Approximations and assumptions apart, this season's campaign should not be a loss maker if our board continue the conservative approach of the previous directors. Then again, the bonus of third may have offset losses our poor crowds contributed to. Who knows? The board knows, and they're the ones whose job it is to know and act. Maybe we should let them get on with it instead of dissecting and second-guessing everything? Without ALL the facts we can look a bit daft commenting on this or that. Except Ghostie, whose posts are informed through his insider knowledge. Do you get the impression that TW is happier to play ball with the tight budget than Lomas was? Not sure if that's good or bad? Does the club need people pulling both ways to strike a balance that leads to achievement? Will a compliant manager lead to a drop in success, whilst becoming comfortable financially? I still think TW is hopeful of getting Abeid in on loan, so has been cautious with the budget, but time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barty1884 Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Which part? The part where I openly admit I had assumed wrongly? Or the part where I was speculating? On speculation, Crusaders knew they had secured Europe 6 weeks prior to us qualifying? It's entirely plausible they booked a company far enough in advance to secure a lower price. Not saying that is the case, it's mere speculation.....you know....hence the word "perhaps" in my comment. Always nice chatting with your fergie A new standard in pot calling kettle black Nice to hear from you Montrose i see your still feeding off the Ritchie Brittain thing. How nice of you to completely avoid my question fergie pray tell what part was complete nonsense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MySpazz Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Do you get the impression that TW is happier to play ball with the tight budget than Lomas was? Not sure if that's good or bad? Does the club need people pulling both ways to strike a balance that leads to achievement? Will a compliant manager lead to a drop in success, whilst becoming comfortable financially? ------------------------------- TW is older wiser than SL...... time will tell - they do things differently. TW might make a few mistakes, but he has that experience not to repeat them (I'd hope!). SL is about to be found out at Millwall! ex-montrosesaintee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angussaint Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Surely the Europe game is an ideal opportunity to get new punters through the door, a top quality side who have played Champions League football for several years, but many people swaying will be massively out off by £24 a head. I don't know what the club can do to get more bums on seats but they can't expect people to cough up that when times are tough. I sort of agree with MM on this one, £24 for the home leg of Europa league game is really steep a full £6 pound dearer than the same round as last year. As money is also tight in my household only one of us (between myself & my partner) will be able to afford to go to this match, I too have travel too & from Perth & then up & back from the game to consider. As for the justification that if Rosenborg proceed to the group stages, that ticket prices will rise upwards of £50, I think that this totally wrong having been to a few Champions league games following my English team I support, I can categorically advise that I have NEVER paid £50 for a ticket, I also checked on Hibs website (as they're in the same round as us) & they are quoting £18 for return leg, plus an early bird deal to buy a ticket for £15 in the weeks prior to the game, I unfortunately think that Steve Brown and the board is seeing this as an opportunity to cream more money off supporters. MySpazz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 ------------------------------- TW is older wiser than SL...... time will tell - they do things differently. TW might make a few mistakes, but he has that experience not to repeat them (I'd hope!). SL is about to be found out at Millwall! Forgot about that! Be watching how his new team gets on. angussaint 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergiefootball Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 How nice of you to completely avoid my question fergie pray tell what part was complete nonsense? Iv said all im saying on your post. I wont put any silly faces up is that ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MySpazz Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 can categorically advise that I have NEVER paid £50 for a ticket, I also checked on Hibs website (as they're in the same round as us) & they are quoting £18 for return leg, plus an early bird deal to buy a ticket for £15 in the weeks prior to the game, I unfortunately think that Steve Brown and the board is seeing this as an opportunity to cream more money off supporters. ============================= Angussaint has a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerthSeany Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Cheers for that Mr Brown. Why announce the over inflated cost of the home leg when it may be dead and buried?? If the club come back say for example 3-1 down, massive chance for us to take the tie at home, so why increase the price?? Surely this would put people off coming along!! Its not really that bad a price increase. I know its gone up. Its £18 per person in Norway for the match ticket, no matter your age. Less for an adult but more if ur taking children to a game! Saints are trying to attract q supporter for life is with th family prices. Which is sensible? Youngsters through now who hopefully come for the rest of their life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Special One Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Is the family stand plan actually going how saints want it to? (Getting kids in now, hopefully keep coming for years to come) or is it just the case now where adults are "dragging" their uninterested kids along simply to get in cheaper. Perhaps a new and different approach should be sought after to get the intended benefit? Also nice to see the club finally coming through with their student gate offer which was mentioned in previous seasons. Think it was definitely needed to encourage that age range to keep going to games whenever they were home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergiefootball Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 How nice of you to completely avoid my question fergie pray tell what part was complete nonsense? All of it was ...pure ifs and buts + speculation like most posts on here....people spouting cos they err ..spout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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