Summer transfers/contracts 2023

[blueheaven]

16 hours ago, Templar Saint said:

That assumes the players you are talking about were of interest to Saints.

The last manager signed an abundance of midfield players, many on long contracts that we still have at the club.

We also need a pathway for our young players to get into the first team.  Signing more players prevents this.

Macca the Manager has said the squad was too big and that he wants it reduced so perhaps another reason players the fans wanted have not been considered.

 

By my counting we've lost 12 players since the end of the season (possibly going up to 13 if Hallberg goes, and 14 if Bair goes) so I don't think there's any danger of the squad not being considerably smaller for the coming season. If Macca's true to his word (saying today that Max, Ferguson, Steven and Parker will all be considered for stepping up over pre-season) then that pathway is there now for those who are good enough to step into it.

But we definitely need new signings too and I think there have to be three or four brought in who are as good as or better than our regular starters, or we could be in trouble again next season. Some of the players who have departed will have been among our big earners (Muzz, Spoony, MOH, Murphy and possibly Eetu) so surely there's got to be a decent bit of budget freed up there for the manager to play with).

Macca says in his most recent Courier interview that centre-half, goalkeeper and wide player are the main areas he's looking to sign players in and I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

[pezza70]

Have we been linked with anyone from down south regarding loans?

I’ve read Macca said he isn’t concerned about our budget but can he attract the quality we need?

[RandomGuy]

 

[Cagey]

10 hours ago, blueheaven said:

By my counting we've lost 12 players since the end of the season (possibly going up to 13 if Hallberg goes, and 14 if Bair goes) so I don't think there's any danger of the squad not being considerably smaller for the coming season. If Macca's true to his word (saying today that Max, Ferguson, Steven and Parker will all be considered for stepping up over pre-season) then that pathway is there now for those who are good enough to step into it.

But we definitely need new signings too and I think there have to be three or four brought in who are as good as or better than our regular starters, or we could be in trouble again next season. Some of the players who have departed will have been among our big earners (Muzz, Spoony, MOH, Murphy and possibly Eetu) so surely there's got to be a decent bit of budget freed up there for the manager to play with).

Macca says in his most recent Courier interview that centre-half, goalkeeper and wide player are the main areas he's looking to sign players in and I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

At least he is of the same opinion as us that we  need centre half ,goalkeeper " hopefully as back up"and wide player , minimum.

We need back up at full backs as well , unless he thinks there are guys that can cover those positions.

[Aitchy]

Seen some mentions on social media about Macca not having contacts or the stature to attract decent players to the club, which I don’t agree with.

Macca, Liam Craig and Alex Cleland have all played in England and Scotland and all will have built up some good contacts throughout their careers which they will be able to tap into regarding the potential availability of players and said players abilities.

Judging by Maccas press appearances, he can talk a good game and I am sure he will be able to sell his vision of the club to any potential signings.

We do have the potential sale of the club hanging over us, but I would be surprised if that had any impact on players joining us. We are in a good position financially and have always had a reputation as being a club that looks after players well. Clubs like Saints, Motherwell, Killie and Ross County are all fishing in the same pool. A lot of players are based on the west coast and if offered a similar deal by Motherwell or Killie then they are always likely to choose them so that they don’t have to do so much travelling. County pay over the top to attract players due to their location. Out of the players that have gone to similar sized clubs recently, the only one I m really fussed about is Deas who has evidently been offered a good deal by Killie who seemed to be splashing the cash. 

Ideally we will see a couple of new signings in place soon to give the squad a bit of freshness and hopefully boost the morale/pre season excitement amongst the support.

[Radford 72]

I think we are in a quite a precarious position squad wise.

I want to see a younger squad and our own players given a chance as that's largely always been the basis of what has been successful for us but there's no doubt it presents a risk with the current overall balance of the group.

Eric Nicolson posted a squad of 21 players in a piece the other day but Parker and Steven aren't going to step up right now and Bair isn't in the plans so that's you back down to 18 already. Crawford shouldn't be in the plans and Booth has a lot to do to regain trust. Is Gallacher good enough? Is Kane fit? Are three games enough to judge Ballantyne off? What do you do regards the number one goalkeeper? Can Ferguson and Kucheriavyi contribute? Are Considine's legs still there?

If you then ask yourselves, how many players in the squad can you really back and trust for a whole season...

I'm not even sure we could field a team.

[blueheaven]

12 hours ago, Aitchy said:

Seen some mentions on social media about Macca not having contacts or the stature to attract decent players to the club, which I don’t agree with.

Macca, Liam Craig and Alex Cleland have all played in England and Scotland and all will have built up some good contacts throughout their careers which they will be able to tap into regarding the potential availability of players and said players abilities.

I hope that's correct. Gus MacPherson is hopefully well connected in the game too. But have to say I expected Callum Davidson to have really good contacts, having played and coached at both club and international level and worked with loads of different people, but he seemed to really struggle in that area and I felt it was telling how often he went back to Millwall for loan players. I can only pray that Macca's ideas and ambitions in the transfer market stretch a bit further than Davidson's did.

 

12 hours ago, Aitchy said:

We are in a good position financially and have always had a reputation as being a club that looks after players well.

Would be interesting to know if we still have that reputation after the way things have gone here for a few players over the last couple of seasons.

We've always been reluctant to compete financially with the clubs around us but what we were able to offer players was success and stability. Players on the outside looking in would have seen Saints as a place where players stick around a for long time, and even return after spells away, and a place where it's possible to play top six football and even get a chance to play in Europe. Sadly a lot of that has all been lost now and I find it much harder to see why anyone would pick us over Killie or Motherwell.

Love how upbeat Macca is and we're going to need that, but I do suspect this is going to be a really difficult first transfer window for him.

[pezza70]

My biggest fear is that we might rush in and panic towards the end of the window and we are left paying overs for players who we generally wouldn’t look at for our squad.

is the glass half full or half empty right now?

[Radford 72]

I think a big issue for Davidson was trust. He trusted Gary Rowett, not just in terms of loans but also guys we signed. Even players like Bryson, Butterfield, Solomon-Otabor had played under him. And whether people like the fact or not, there was an unhealthy relationship between Davidson and his agent, Allan Preston, when it came to bringing players to Saints.

Contacts are vital for a club like Saints who don't have an extensive scouting or recruitment network and you'd hope it was given consideration before appointing MacLean. It was always something Geoff Brown saw as a priority.

I also can't see any way our reputation hasn't been tarnished by the last 2 years. Paying inflated fees for players, paying bigger wages, settling up contracts and a big turnover of players. You go from being a club that rogues wouldn't waste their time with to ripe pickings.

How we did conduct our business isn't too distant a memory though so hopefully we gain move back towards that model.

[Radford 72]

1 minute ago, pezza70 said:

Is the glass half full or half empty right now?

I think we need to be honest and say we don't know. Being totally defeatist and negative doesn't achieve anything when we are still in the dark but equally it's never wrong to question things and not just bury your head in the sand.

I guess we need to try and be optimistic that there is a plan in place that can be delivered.

[SaintJet]

I don't see any reason to panic just now. We needed to trim the squad and I'm happy about the way that has gone so far. 

My biggest concern is replacing stalwarts like Spoony, Muz  and MOH when they were in the prime of their form. They were were never going to last for ever but have been great servants to us and this type of calibre player isn't going to be easy to find. I'm still hopeful Halberg will return but I wont lose sleep if he doesn't; he's a big unit and I feel he's going to be a bit injury prone towards the last part of his career.

We need to establish an identity and Macca has the oppertunity to make his mark so it will be interesting to see how he sets us up.

Asssuming MItchell isn't coming back we need to unearth another big centre back who can fit in quickly.

[Pat McGroin]

40 minutes ago, Radford 72 said:

I think a big issue for Davidson was trust. He trusted Gary Rowett, not just in terms of loans but also guys we signed. Even players like Bryson, Butterfield, Solomon-Otabor had played under him. And whether people like the fact or not, there was an unhealthy relationship between Davidson and his agent, Allan Preston, when it came to bringing players to Saints.

Contacts are vital for a club like Saints who don't have an extensive scouting or recruitment network and you'd hope it was given consideration before appointing MacLean. It was always something Geoff Brown saw as a priority.

I also can't see any way our reputation hasn't been tarnished by the last 2 years. Paying inflated fees for players, paying bigger wages, settling up contracts and a big turnover of players. You go from being a club that rogues wouldn't waste their time with to ripe pickings.

How we did conduct our business isn't too distant a memory though so hopefully we gain move back towards that model.

I would hope that having Stan Harris back involved might see us operating more traditionally. 
 

Felt like Steve Brown loosened the reins far too much after the cup double. 

I’d like to see us running a tight ship again and Macca is certainly making the right noises in the that department. 

[blueheaven]

I always get the impression Saints' approach to the summer transfer window is to hold off for as long as possible, let our competitors max out their budgets and then pick up whoever's left still needing a move. We've pretty much got away with it over the years (I think partly because Tommy ran with such a stable squad that we often only needed one or two additions in each window) - but it also means we often seem to see our first choice targets going elsewhere.

I know the counter argument is that it's who you have at the end of the window that counts, but is it really? I think there's an argument that not getting key signings in early enough has damaged our League Cup campaigns and also harmed us in Europe (I still think we could have got past Galatasaray or LASK if only we'd managed to sign just one bloody good striker in time for those games - and think how much we'd have earned from that).

I wouldn't say I'm panicking but it's undeniable that Dundee and Killie are looking so much more pro-active than us at the moment. Dundee have made four completely different types of signing in Shaughnessy, Reilly, Tiffoney and Portales (an experienced defender who was captain of a top-six Premiership club; a promising youngster from the lower leagues; one of the stand-out performers from last season's Championship; a completely unknown quantity from abroad). I think if Saints had done that same kind of business the fans would be really excited right now and we'd be seeing a big boost in season ticket sales as a result. Bear in mind our manager has been in his job for longer than Dundee's, we're a wealthier club than Dundee, and we're also an established top-flight club whereas they're just coming up from the league below.

Go back to January 2022 and out of nowhere we were suddenly able to make 9 or 10 signings (most of whom were a bit rubbish, granted). But it just feels like we only ever really go for it in the transfer market when we're desperate and it's a last resort. Why not be more proactive and try to build something from a position of more comfort?

 

[rik2304]

We're always slow out of the traps. And apart from Murray Davidson, footballers always follow the money. 

Case in point is Danny Swanson. Kept following the money and regretting it and didn't learn.

[rik2304]

I'm also not too bothered about who we might have missed so far.

 

We know what Kennedy can do but there has to be questions asked about his fitness now. 

I was initially bothered about Tiffoney but he looked good in an awful league. Time will tell if Dundee have pulled off a coup or not.

[Cagey]

It's a bit of concern when Dundee , Killie and County who finished below us even though we were absolute dog shit , are signing players that lots of us would have had in our team. We probably weren't in for any of them for a reason that Macca hasn't explained.

[Linky]

Hibs signed a new GK, I wonder if they think Marshall is past it and he might be looking to move on? Although, a ready made GK & coach position might've worked well for him, but that won't be happening now.

[RandomGuy]

 

[Saint Stevo]

If Macdonald comes in, I'm only hoping it's as back up to Sinclair. An experienced head in that role would do no harm, but that's it. 

[Linky]

MacDonald is fine as cheap back up, that saves wages for other roles, but why not double this up with GK coach and save a wage?

[GMac]

5 minutes ago, Linky said:

MacDonald is fine as cheap back up, that saves wages for other roles, but why not double this up with GK coach and save a wage?

Maybe that is the intention.   I just hope we steer clear of Rowett/Biscuits  cast offs.

[Stumpy1949]

1 hour ago, GMac said:

Maybe that is the intention.   I just hope we steer clear of Rowett/Biscuits  cast offs.

We have just signed a new GK coach in Craig Hinchcliffe. 

[RandomGuy]

54 minutes ago, Stumpy1949 said:

We have just signed a new GK coach in Craig Hinchcliffe. 

Hinchcliffe is "Head of Goalkeeping".

Every chance Hinchcliffe does training for every level while MacDonald is dedicated 1st team goalkeeping coach, i guess.

[That_Dave]

6 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I know the counter argument is that it's who you have at the end of the window that counts, but is it really? I think there's an argument that not getting key signings in early enough has damaged our League Cup campaigns and also harmed us in Europe (I still think we could have got past Galatasaray or LASK if only we'd managed to sign just one bloody good striker in time for those games - and think how much we'd have earned from that).

To be fair, the Kerr and McCann sagas messed up that transfer window. If they both stayed what we needed was very different to if they both went. It being resolved so late was a problem, but the bigger issue is the whole summer we didn't really know what the core of the squad would be come transfer deadline day. Had we know they were going, and for what price, earlier I think our incoming transfers would be very different.

I think this links to why so many players came in during January that season. We couldn't use the budget in the summer, and tried to spend it and build a new culture in the middle of the season. That run in November/December is what really did for us, as it dragged us into a relegation battle so we couldn't keep the investment until the summer.

I'm not sensing much danger of our best players being bought late on this year, so hopefully we can get the transfers sorted much earlier. I think the late sales of Kerr and McCann are why the squad is still slightly unbalanced, but hopefully we can address that this summer and move on from that issue.

[rik2304]

McDonald would be a solid back up/competition for Sinclair.