BlueJ Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Its easy to pick up on one point Markinch, The post says more about the poster than my error. I badly edited a para about the proportion of goals as I'd lost myself half way through it! The point was valid though. The reduction in goals conceded didn't fall that much in proportion to the reduction in goals scored. It was far too high a price to pay to try and make us harder to beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cagey Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 If you're going to quote the stats at least get it right, we clearly conceded less goals last season as your post shows. Bluej is spot on with his summery & the reason why the support is dropping. You picked him up on the goals conceded. I didn`t notice that I was thinking he was meaning goal difference which dramatically shows the difference in both seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Totally agree with your principle Andrew. Where are the 'football is a business' people in the boardroom now? There are a number of factors that determine attendances but I think it's more than co-incidence our average attendance dropped from 4717 in 09/10 to 3841 last season. The customers have spoken yet it looks like they're going to be sold more of what they've shown they don't want. That's not very good business imho. It's great they've tackled issues like the catering and programme but they are really side shows. It's what happens on the pitch that matters most. Totally agree with the jist of your post BlueJ. One thing I'm not sure on is whether our switch to anti football totally caused the decline in attendance - I'm pretty sure season tic sales were down last year even after that great season, so people were turning away even before the season (and our crap football) begun. It's unfortunate Del seems to want us to play this way - it did look like he tried to set the team out in a more attacking way yesterday, but we seem to have lost that creative spark. Not helped by a super deep midfield made up of four central players, mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markinch Saint Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 The post says more about the poster than my error. I badly edited a para about the proportion of goals as I'd lost myself half way through it! The point was valid though. The reduction in goals conceded didn't fall that much in proportion to the reduction in goals scored. It was far too high a price to pay to try and make us harder to beat. I was just pointing out that you'd made an error in your post, I was pretty sure you meant goal difference rather than goals conceded, however some might read it and take it as fact that last season we conceded more. I actually agree with you on some points and I also enjoyed the first season back in SPL much more than last season. Didn't mean to cause offence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byebyedundee Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Okay I watched the whole game on Live stream and it was clear that some of our boys were not up to scratch.. For me Enks was our MOM... Mooner was our worst player Calum was solid and really looked a bit of class Morris was steady Murray was strong Sheridan & Haber need a winger Wright was steady Anderson was 99% good then one lack of concentration cost us Robertson was steady Miller should of started instead of Mooner The rest was forgetable Basically were just not MATCH FIT YET and really lacking a winger things that Del noticed and will hopefully address.... We need that wee man to torment the opposing defence give Higgins a go and come on Sandaza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancientsaint Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Soon as we get Sandaza in in place of Sheridan the better -time after time Haber knocked the ball down only to find Sheridan wasnt there -Glad Finnigan gave a good account too in the time he was on -chased and harried and worked more than Cilla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Glad Finnigan gave a good account too in the time he was on -chased and harried and worked more than Cilla. That he did. We're thinking what's he here for? Hope he takes his chance when he gets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Center Half Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Okay I watched the whole game on Live stream and it was clear that some of our boys were not up to scratch.. For me Enks was our MOM... Mooner was our worst player Calum was solid and really looked a bit of class Morris was steady Murray was strong Sheridan & Haber need a winger Wright was steady Anderson was 99% good then one lack of concentration cost us Robertson was steady Miller should of started instead of Mooner The rest was forgetable Basically were just not MATCH FIT YET and really lacking a winger things that Del noticed and will hopefully address.... We need that wee man to torment the opposing defence give Higgins a go and come on Sandaza Agreed by IMO Mooner was steady out of position,Robertson was woeful out of position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford 72 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 I feared this would happen when the fixture list was announced. Panic stations after 2 games when we're in exactly the same place that 99% of you would have expected to be - one point. Positives were Callum Davidson bombing forward, Wright looking ok and Enks in fine form. The front two looked ok and Haber beat the new gers defender everytime they went up. Our finishing was poor bUT i really believe we are only one attacking midfielder away from being a good side. Fil Morias is the type of player we are missing. I must be a more cheery soul than you as I didn't fear the sort of reaction we've seen. I assumed lots of the stuff being discussed would only start coming up at the end of September if we had problems, not before July is even out! Can't understand why folk have such a negative outlook at this stage of the season, both on here and in the stands. We've seen it all before though, you just need to look at the threads from three years ago. That of course doesn't mean it'll turn out to be a success again but how can we judge anything on two games, especially when one was against Rangers, when the manager has signed nearly a whole new team of players? You just need to read interviews with McInnes to see he wants to play with two strikers and he's trying hard to sign a winger, yet there's this doom that he's delighted we only scored twenty goals last season and is setting out to do that again. He's stressed over and over how unhappy he was with the goalscoring issues and how he'd try to sort them and took the brave decision of releasing every striker that was out of contract. Surely he deserves far more of an opportunity than he's getting to solve what was a major problem, as there isn't some magic fix, or if there is, I'm sure he'd be delighted to hear about it. Yesterday was like the vast, vast majority of games I've seen us play against the Old Firm. Sticking in the match but then a bit of quality of a lapse from us and they have the lead and it's really game over. That's not a problem specific to McInnes or even Saints, every club outside the Old Firm is pretty much the same. Of course there were worrying signs, Anderson falling asleep at the goals, Robertson struggling and Moon likewise but I don't see why folk so often appear to chose to put so much emphasis on those things. Some of the new signings must be wondering what they've let themselves in for with the reaction towards the end of the match yesterday. I've touched on it before in Pie & Bovril but unfortunately I think McInnes has done too much damage in the eyes of some last season and he won't win them over again. It's probably best for all parties if another club comes in for him sooner rather than later and he probably should have gone to Brentford, as his players (who are good players IMO) would then have been given a clean slate by the support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 I've touched on it before in Pie & Bovril but unfortunately I think McInnes has done too much damage in the eyes of some last season and he won't win them over again. It's probably best for all parties if another club comes in for him sooner rather than later and he probably should have gone to Brentford, as his players (who are good players IMO) would then have been given a clean slate by the support. No one is beyond redemption. You, me, 101 or Derek McInnes. Last season was disappointing and this one, so far, two games only or not, is showing depressing signs of a continuation. How Derek can talk on the one hand about the lack of goals, looking for more at the top end, etc and then talk about survival and being hard to beat is a bit beyond me. If he turns it around I will be pleased to congratulate him. My worry is he might not manage it because he doesn't seem to be able to break up his favourite midfielders or to play them in their correct positions. Millar Morris Davidson + a winger will still have very little creativity. I'm not suggesting we go all St Mirren-like and proclaim we're going to make the top six, but this cagey, risk averse attitude which seems to be underpinning things is a shame. I do believe we are capable of pushing on. I think we've got the players to do it. I think we're going the wrong way about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford 72 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 No one is beyond redemption. So if McInnes had gone to Brentford and a new man had been appointed, you are telling me the opening two performances would have generated the reaction they have done? Couldn't believe it when the booing started before the end of the match yesterday. That to me suggests that the manager has lost the backing of the support and that will hold the whole club back. It's shame, as personally I wouldn't be wanting to make any judgements until after we play Kilmarnock on the first day of October, just before we have a break of two weeks because of Scotland playing. Do you think the booing yesterday is more likely to make McInnes and the players go out with a real sense of freedom against Dunfermline, or terrified to make a mistake and lose a goal? I see nothing wrong with the way the manager approaches a season generally. He sets the players a private points tally they believe will see them safe and challenge them to reach it as quickly as possible. Once or if that is achieved, the aims and targets are reassessed. The first priority should always be survival and then we can talk about the next step or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint D Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 You just need to read interviews with McInnes to see he wants to play with two strikers and he's trying hard to sign a winger, yet there's this doom that he's delighted we only scored twenty goals last season and is setting out to do that again. He's stressed over and over how unhappy he was with the goalscoring issues and how he'd try to sort them and took the brave decision of releasing every striker that was out of contract. Surely he deserves far more of an opportunity than he's getting to solve what was a major problem, as there isn't some magic fix, or if there is, I'm sure he'd be delighted to Do you really think if we sign a winger we'll suddenly turn into an attacking side? The way we've played the first two games with the slow, negative sideways and backwards approach will only get us one thing and that's not many goals. If that's us trying to score more goals than last season well I don't know what hope we have. I'm not surprised there were boos. Two down with still twenty minutes left and Jody is pi@@ing about in the middle of the park before making another killer pass back to Ando. FFS Haber was making intelligent runs all day coming short at times and sometimes in a great position on the edge of offside just begging for a through ball. We hardly gave him the ball all day. We didn't try to go forward even at two nil down. It was embarrassing! Do you expect fans who have just renewed season tickets excited about the season ahead or people who paid the daft price to get in to be happy at us just sitting there doing nothing positive at two nil down? I don't care who we're playing. What a shocking attitude to have. Not interested in trying to get a goal back. Remind me why should we be satisfied with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainstand Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 No one is beyond redemption. You, me, 101 or Derek McInnes. Last season was disappointing and this one, so far, two games only or not, is showing depressing signs of a continuation. How Derek can talk on the one hand about the lack of goals, looking for more at the top end, etc and then talk about survival and being hard to beat is a bit beyond me. If he turns it around I will be pleased to congratulate him. My worry is he might not manage it because he doesn't seem to be able to break up his favourite midfielders or to play them in their correct positions. Millar Morris Davidson + a winger will still have very little creativity. I'm not suggesting we go all St Mirren-like and proclaim we're going to make the top six, but this cagey, risk averse attitude which seems to be underpinning things is a shame. I do believe we are capable of pushing on. I think we've got the players to do it. I think we're going the wrong way about it. How anyone can start making judgements on this season after an away match to Aberdeen (in which we got a point) and a defeat at home to Rangers is beyond me. it is about time a number of fans(and use the word advisedly) started getting behind the team and stopped playing football manager with their constant analysis of tactics. As Strachan said "tactics don't win or lose a match it is the players that do" Start making judgements on the season after the first 11 games then you will be able to see how we are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint D Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 How anyone can start making judgements on this season after an away match to Aberdeen (in which we got a point) and a defeat at home to Rangers is beyond me. it is about time a number of fans(and use the word advisedly) started getting behind the team and stopped playing football manager with their constant analysis of tactics. As Strachan said "tactics don't win or lose a match it is the players that do" Start making judgements on the season after the first 11 games then you will be able to see how we are doing. It's pretty easy to make a judgement. Just watch the games. It's not like we're trying to get forward and score but aren't good enough to do it. It's that we're just not trying to attack. We don't look interested in the opposition goal. Maybe the rules have been changed and the most fannying about in midfield and passing it round the defence wins the points. We'd be champions already if that was the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 How anyone can start making judgements on this season after an away match to Aberdeen (in which we got a point) and a defeat at home to Rangers is beyond me. it is about time a number of fans(and use the word advisedly) started getting behind the team and stopped playing football manager with their constant analysis of tactics. As Strachan said "tactics don't win or lose a match it is the players that do" Start making judgements on the season after the first 11 games then you will be able to see how we are doing. New season. Same approach. Indicators not positive. Hope it changes. Nothing wrong with that view. I am paying a lot of money in hard times to follow the club home and away and I am perfectly entitled to analyse or criticise. It's part of the game. I never boo or shout at matches. I cheer when we score, but that is now a rarity which looks less likely with each game we play thanks to HOW we are CHOOSING to play. Nothing wrong with that view either. Post after post about how we are negative, sideways, backwards, etc from many different posters. It doesn't take much to figure out where our keep possession play will get us. It's not really tactics either, I don't profess to know a lot about tactics, it's just common sense. It's also common sense that, playing this way, fans (advisedly or otherwise) will continue to disappear like snow off a dyke. That's a shame. It could be different and I hope it changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 You just need to read interviews with McInnes to see he wants to play with two strikers and he's trying hard to sign a winger, yet there's this doom that he's delighted we only scored twenty goals last season and is setting out to do that again. He's stressed over and over how unhappy he was with the goalscoring issues and how he'd try to sort them and took the brave decision of releasing every striker that was out of contract. Surely he deserves far more of an opportunity than he's getting to solve what was a major problem, as there isn't some magic fix, or if there is, I'm sure he'd be delighted to hear about it. Again, you are correct, but changing all the strikers, and credit to him for that, isn't going to make one bit of difference if we continue to play the same way with pretty much the same, negative midfield. You can be sure, more or less, that our midfield will be Morris, Millar, Davidson + 1 other. That's the problem. Last week Aberdeen put a constant stream of balls into our box from out wide playing with the wind. We had put none in in the first half. None that caused the kind of mayhem theirs did. It's pretty easy to make a judgement. Just watch the games. It's not like we're trying to get forward and score but aren't good enough to do it. It's that we're just not trying to attack. We don't look interested in the opposition goal. Maybe the rules have been changed and the most fannying about in midfield and passing it round the defence wins the points. We'd be champions already if that was the case. Jodying about. Millar'd it. Whatever way you look at it, something's not working and those two are usually at the heart of it. They can only keep possession for so long, eventually they will lose it, no matter how good they are. They are, clearly, not bad players. Are they being managed or coached properly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainstand Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 New season. Same approach. Indicators not positive. Hope it changes. Nothing wrong with that view. I am paying a lot of money in hard times to follow the club home and away and I am perfectly entitled to analyse or criticise. It's part of the game. I never boo or shout at matches. I cheer when we score, but that is now a rarity which looks less likely with each game we play thanks to HOW we are CHOOSING to play. Nothing wrong with that view either. Post after post about how we are negative, sideways, backwards, etc from many different posters. It doesn't take much to figure out where our keep possession play will get us. It's not really tactics either, I don't profess to know a lot about tactics, it's just common sense. It's also common sense that, playing this way, fans (advisedly or otherwise) will continue to disappear like snow off a dyke. That's a shame. It could be different and I hope it changes. I actually thought we were left with very few choices but to pass across midfield a lot yesterday due to the way Rangers played. They pressed the player with the ball and had for long spells had a bank of 4 defenders and a 5 accross midfield. 2 players were going towards the player with the ball every time so they had to switch the angle of play and try and draw the rangers midfield out, I am one of those that think that you don;t always have to go forward there is nothing wrong with going accross the field or back, as long as we are keeping posession. I know what you are saying and respect that not everyone likes that style of play. If anything we need to pass the ball quicker when playing accross midfield. Give it time and I think you will be a happy bunny come the end of the last third. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint D Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Jodying about. Millar'd it. Whatever way you look at it, something's not working and those two are usually at the heart of it. They can only keep possession for so long, eventually they will lose it, no matter how good they are. They are, clearly, not bad players. Are they being managed or coached properly? You're right and I don't know. Both good players but Millar always turns back like it's habit. What about his first touches? One a great overhead clearance when we were 35 yards from their goal in a good position? What was that? Jody's different. He's either told to play this way or decides to take it upon himself. He's not always been this negative and slow. Remember his debut at Dens? Starts the move and gets into the box to score with a header. In the role he plays now we are shortchanging ourselves I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 To be fair, Jody is getting pelters for faffing about with theball before passing it to Ando, but that's because he had the ability to keep the ball and LOOK for a pass, unlike Muzz and Robertson who just gave it straight to Rangers players. I agree that Rangers overpowered our midfield 4 expertly. It wasn't very pretty, but very effective. 5 v 4 with the spare man closing down the ball quickly. Naismith was irritatingly good at dropping deep and intercepting the passes, much as I hate his cheating wee puss. Credit to Rangers for expecting our narrow 4-4-2 and stopping it working. Robertson was really really poor, Muzz was well below par, and I think Moon deserves some credit for trying to move about to get possession back and to break down their midfield, but ultimately he wasn't up to the task. Morris had no options, and made few mistakes. I don't think it's doom and gloom. I think this side still has great potential. Against a less excellently organised midfield it will be a much better story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broon Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 , Muzz was well below par I actually thought Davidson got in some brilliant positions in the match but was unbelievably reluctant to have a shot. If he would take more risks he'd be a brilliant player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 I actually thought Davidson got in some brilliant positions in the match but was unbelievably reluctant to have a shot. If he would take more risks he'd be a brilliant player. I got the impression that that knock in the first half was a sore one, and he never quite recovered fully from it. Every player is entitled to have a below par performance in my opinion, provided they demonstrate what par is. Robertson's par so far has been bloody useless, which worries me much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryangordon86 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Robertson's par so far has been bloody useless, which worries me much more. We are 2 (TWO!) games into the season. I'm absolutely stunned that you even feel fit to comment on a new player after such a short period. Surely all new players deserve 10 games minimum to bed into a new club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEccles621 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 We are 2 (TWO!) games into the season. I'm absolutely stunned that you even feel fit to comment on a new player after such a short period. Surely all new players deserve 10 games minimum to bed into a new club? Couldn't agree more. Yes - he did have a poor game on saturday - but for chrissake, give him (and everyone else) a chance! I do feel that Del has put together a really strong looking squad this year. With the addition of a winger - and a bit of time for everyone to gel properly - we'll be better than last season - and comfortably mid-table at worst. Keep the faith - COYS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintee4life Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 The problem for Robertson is that the not so wonderboy is playing in his position and he gets shoved out wide. How the hell did Davidson miss that chance in the 1st half? Criminal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Cheers folks, in amongst all the negative crap on here I make a very positive statement about the team, expecting much better things to come, and make one negative comment about "Robertson's par so far" and you all start the stoning. I thought he was a good signing, but in his first two games he has been woefully behind the quality of the other players. I hope he gets better, and am perfectly willing to withold further judgement until he has had a fair chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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