rickardo Posted August 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Lets hope your right ,but one cannot see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCallum Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Absolute joke, but well done for getting a nice heated debate going. I agree with whoever mentioned the Gretna effect - fair enough they are 4 points ahead already. One small thing some people need to consider is there are THIRTY THREE games left. To call for Owens head at this stage is unreal and completely unfair. We will not win this league by playing pretty football. We will win this league by grinding out results week in week out. The difference in reaction from a 0-0 and a 1-0 from Saints fans is unbelievable. As BH said, if we had got the break we needed in the 2 draws, we would be up with Gretna and world beaters, when really the performances would have been similar, only difference being that break to get the goal. As it happens, we didn't manage to get a win on those occasions. While we dwell on these missed opportunities, Gretna are busy steamrolling this league. If you ask me, they are not taking the title from us without one massive fight. At the start of last season, after a few draws and sitting mid table, St Mirren came to McD to play a confident Saints side sitting near the top of the league. We were outplayed that day and St Mirren never looked back. Patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickardo Posted August 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 So when is the right time to "call for his head " when its to late and were chasing a pipe dream yet again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc7969 Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 It is to soon to call for his head. But, if he does not show he is learning by dropping, changing players who are not performing then there will be more calls. We keep hearing how popular he is with the players, sometimes as manager you have to kick butt. He needs to do that now and get the players to play on the ground not the punt. That will show our skills and create chances we should be capable of taking. Long unbeaten runs mean nothing, if they are only draws. wins win the prizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Paul Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 It is to soon to call for his head. But, if he does not show he is learning by dropping, changing players who are not performing then there will be more calls. We keep hearing how popular he is with the players, sometimes as manager you have to kick butt. He needs to do that now and get the players to play on the ground not the punt. That will show our skills and create chances we should be capable of taking. Long unbeaten runs mean nothing, if they are only draws. wins win the prizes. Excellent point. All managers have their favourite players in a team, but the sign of a good manager is knowing when to drop them for the good of the team. It also comes from having a good squad, which in certain areas of the park we do, so Coyle needs to stand back and have a look at the players who are not performing to the standard required and look at how to change things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCallum Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Whilst I agree about Saturday, we could as easily have lost on the opening day as won. We should've been dead and buried after 20 minutes! Yes, Radford you are right, we could easily have lost to Clyde. The draw was probably a fair result in the end. I'm just generally trying to say that we could easily be up there with Gretna just now, if the breaks had gone our way, especially against Hamilton, so there is no need to hit the panic button, like some folk seem to be suggesting. These kind of breaks tend to even themselves out over the season and there is plenty of time left. So when is the right time to "call for his head " when its to late and were chasing a pipe dream yet again Maybe if we had lost all of our opening games 4-0, you may have had a decent shout, but having been unbeaten in the league without losing a goal, it is far too early to call for his head. This is all an over reaction to Gretna setting the pace, which was expected. They will drop points and over the season we have to be there to take advantage of that. The league is not over yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Theres no point in sacking Coyle at all really, even if we were to finish mid- table because we won't get any better standard of manager. By all accounts, Lawrie was an excellent player with Falkirk but hasn't impressed here at all, Coyle will have to revert to Mensing at right back if his poor form continues much longer because we have nothing down the right hand side of the pitch. He should have made sure that Weir didn't play in the first game v Clyde as well because he's lucky he didn't cost us a goal because he was so dar off the pace. Can a team which started the season with Weir, Sheridan and Lawrie win the league anyway, Coyle is obviously severley limited in his budget for players, and having said he wanted to make another 2 signings then only making one isn't ideal. Hopefully since Dobbie is away we can sign another player who can kick start the attack. Who would we get if we sacked Coyle anyway? Theres plenty of other clubs to choose rather than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazel1884 Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Hopefully since Dobbie is away we can sign another player who can kick start the attack. Dobbie could have done that. He is a quality player, and probably the best striker of a baw at the club. However, his physical condition was another matter but i still reckon given a run of games he would have been a different option for us! It's a shame things aren't working out for him. If he had played against Hamilton, i bet he would have scored - or is it only down at Hamilton he scores against them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 I think the fact that we even expect promotion this season is ridiculous, and to put this much pressure on a manager who has done little wrong so far, is to say the least, very, very daft. I believe Coyle is wrong with his tactics, I think he should employ a 4-4-2, I also believe Lawrie should be dropped. But then again, I also thought signing Sheridan would turn out to be a mistake, that's why i'm not a manager! I think we have to place a certain element of trust in a man who has guided us to a year without defeat at McD. I share the frustrations of every supporter on here, I would love to see instant success, I would love to believe Gretna won't romp the league. Nonetheless, Gretna WILL romp the league, and it's unfair (to say the least) to expect ANY manager to compete with them. I know it sounds unbearably pessimistic, but i'm looking to next season, and hoping we can do something then (after Gretna take their amongst the top 6 in the SPL). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainstand Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Coyle just hasn't played all his cards yet. There will be more signings before next Thursday. LOAN or FULL signings??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nairn Saint Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Just come back from holiday (never let herself sort your holiday dates) to find we're undefeated and still in the cups! I obviously can't comment on the performances but would say this level of criticism is a tad harsh..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cider Saint Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Interesting subject to be discussing this early in the season ! I've had my doubts about Coyle for a while now.....I think he is a charismatic manager who the players and fans like for his passion for the game but tactically there is something not quite right. He insists on playing the 3-5-2 formation despite the fact it just doesn't seem to bear fruit - the wing-backs don't seem to have an understanding of what is needed and the midfield is non-existant in this formation (not helped by our inability to play football and constantly lump the ball up the park!). He's also made some seriously crap signings (Lawrie, Campbell, Scrabble, Dobbie). However, talk of replacing him is premature. I think the answer is to give him another, more experienced coach who he can bounce ideas off and add a more creative dimension to the team. Coyle and Weir are both young coaches and perhaps an old head will offset this. He also needs to change the system to a 4-4-2 simply because the players we have here suit that formation. Imagine if he were to get a good, young wide-player like Willie McLaren and play a team along the lines of: Halliwell Mensing McManus James © Stanic Sheridan Young McLaren Hardie Scotland MacDonald That would be arguably the strongest team in the 1st div, with players like Kev, Rusty, Sheerin, Milne, Jackson all standing by. It would probably be more attacking as well, putting pressure on teams who know we'll have more of the ball in most games. I think patience is needed but some little changes do need to made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Its frustrating to be dropping these crucial early points through our old failings and we appear to have a tendancy to be more defensive than our principles suggest, but OC's positives far outweigh his negatives so I would agree that calling for his head is not warranted. He is still the first manager since Sturrock to have given the feeling that we could be building something here. More time needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Madrid Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Would be the most ridiculous sacking in Saints history - except for Mr Totten. Totten had to go, It was one of Geoff's best decisions ever I hope when he retires Geoff does a book on his time at Saints and can put to rest the Totten myth. Alex is a great man and a great man motivator. You just have to look at our cup results when he was in charge at Saints and Falkirk, but as a manager of a full time team in the premier league , no way. I knew a player in that team and some of the things that happened are beyond belief. If you agreed with him you were in the team otherwise you were out. We ended up with a split dressing room and Geoff knew it Look at the amount of money that he was able to spend and where did it get us. If say Sturrock or Clark had had that much to spend we could have won the CIS cup or finished even higher Alex Totten should be remembered as the manager who helped turn this club around but don't say getting rid of him was the worst decision ever Back on topic Coyle is also turning the club around but like many I am also frustrated by his tactics. But with no home league losses in over a year and the defence looking solid we would be mad to show him the door now. Remember unlike John Connelly he was Geoff's choice so that will give him longer. However if we are not in the last 16 of the CIS cup by this time tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aitchy Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Totally agree with Cider Saints comments about getting in an experienced coach/assistant manager. For at least the past 3-5 year we have had the same background staff and we all know we havent exactly been succesful in that time, no concidence some might argue. Personally i feel that Jim Weir is a waste of space. Im justifying my opinion on this behind what employees and players of the club have told me about the standards of the mans coaching and people skills. Yes he was a great player for us, but surely there cannot be any room for sentiment in football. I just feel that some new coaches would give the club a buzz, and hopefully improve the team, in the regards that they could bounce ideas off Coyle. I dont think its time Coyle was punted, we have had far too many managers in the past 10 years, we need to give him at least another year. Yes the performance on Saturday wasnt great, but as others are saying we are still undefeated. The expectation levels amongst the fans are unrealsitic, we have no automatic right to be in the SPL, the amount of boos at half time on Saturday were a disgrace. Overall i feel that Coyle will eventually be a success, but some new coaches and more patience on the fans part would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chansey Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 This thread is ridiculous! fair enough we are not top af the table, and haven't played that great, but there have only been three league games played, there is plenty time to mount a challenge. On this point i feel no further need to comment. However, i feel OC deserves some credit this summer, he has set himself out in bringing in some quality players (ie. McBreen) and unfortunatley for us he has been unsuccessful, but atleast he has not made any panic buys, who would just sit in the stand and take home a wage that we would no longer beable to offer to other potential signings. He has also brought in Young on a months long deal, rather than instanly offering him a long one. Although he seems he could be a decent player for us, he could well have been a flop, had he been offered a long deal, every on here would be rightly p**sed off. But yet he has been given very little credit for these actions.......a teams fans can be just as importantant as the players on the pitch, and at present saints fans seem a very depressing bunch! So come on guys get behind everyone at the club, and maybe we can turn these very average performances into something that can get us back where we belong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calinho Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 May aswell bump this thread since its gonna be hot tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nairn Saint Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 I'd rather be a Saintee than a Sheep!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee john Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 I agree, coyle to go. oot the starting 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbo Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 OK. We've been pretty poor thus far. But we are still unbeaten in the league and doing okay in both cups. Let's be optimistic here for once. We are playing $#!+ but still grinding out "acceptable" results. On another day Clyde and Hamilton could have sneaked the three points and Elgin might have been given that dubious penalty they were looking for and bumped us out of a potential money making cup tie. We'll look a little closer after the first quarter when we have played Gretna, Thistle and Livi and worry then if there is no improvement. There is a distinct lack of positive feedback at the moment. Let's be realistic here, where did we expect to be at this stage of the season. Unbeaten in the league and still in both cup competitions, albeit that we're turning in poor performances, has to be considered OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Maskrey Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 I'd be more worried if we weren't creating chances. From the games I've seen so far, its been the case that if we'd scored one goal early on we would likely go on and score a few more. Sometimes you just need that little bit of luck in front of goal. Keep The Faith!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 I am tottaly pissed off with theese perfomances and think its down to shit tactics ,coyle in my eyes is lost,sack him now Do you still feel this way now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Blair Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 He probably does!If you are daft enought to post it in the first place.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slf Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 rikardo is a big fan and he was feelin down.lay off him as at one time he would have took out his frustration in another way than just battering the keyboard to death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickardo Posted September 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 Okay i was maybe a tad hasty, but im big enough to admit it mr ray blair whoever you are (arse),away the saints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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