Theo Bair

[pezza70]

Another two goals tonight which now sees him in double figures for the season.

So I’m wondering was there a player inside him or along, or did we not coach it out of him or was our system in place not conclusive to get the best out of him?

The person who scouted him for us must be feeling like his reputation is back on the rise again as Theo really struggled with us.

 

[Saintdunc]

43 minutes ago, pezza70 said:

Another two goals tonight which now sees him in double figures for the season.

So I’m wondering was there a player inside him or along, or did we not coach it out of him or was our system in place not conclusive to get the best out of him?

The person who scouted him for us must be feeling like his reputation is back on the rise again as Theo really struggled with us.

 

Majority on here still think he is not a baller. Think that he has proved since leaving that he is.

He is not the only one, in the last 2 and a bit seasons, who have lost their way. Players who were already here, plus those who were recruited, and unceremoniously cast adrift. 

Our coaching team are responsible for this. 

 

[dave mc]

1 hour ago, Saintdunc said:

Majority on here still think he is not a baller. Think that he has proved since leaving that he is.

He is not the only one, in the last 2 and a bit seasons, who have lost their way. Players who were already here, plus those who were recruited, and unceremoniously cast adrift. 

Our coaching team are responsible for this. 

 

Who else are you talking about? 

[Setting Son]

Seemingly was superb in training but couldn’t win a header jumping on his own in a game . Some players take longer to adapt to the Scottish game . Myself, I was saying how can he adapt to the Scottish game when he doesn’t get a run in the team . A sub appeareance on 80 minutes 🥶 every game 

[blueheaven]

Personally I felt he looked miles out of his depth at Saints, in fact more so than any other player I've ever seen. He just didn't look like he knew what to do or where to go. He seemed to need constant instruction from other players around him, to the extent that it distracted the rest of the team and felt like going down to 10 men when he came off the bench. When he did come on he often barely even got a touch of the ball. He didn't even seem able to use his size to his advantage as he was so poor in the air and was easily nudged off the ball. It still amazes me that Motherwell gave him a two-year contract. There's no way they did that on the basis of watching how he played for Saints.

Hats off to him - he's clearly worked incredibly hard and he's found himself at a team that plays in a way that suits him. No doubt better coaching has had a huge amount to do with it. The coaching at Saints has clearly been awful over the last few years and we saw many players' performance levels go quickly backwards after arriving here (remember when we used to be a club that actually made players better instead of worse?).

But I don't believe for a second that he's suddenly become an incredible player. My feeling is he's a very limited player who is going through a spell of fantastic form and is high on confidence, and well done to him for that, but I'll be very surprised if it lasts and he becomes someone who is a prolific goalscorer in multiple seasons. I think it'll be really interesting to see what he does next.

[Setting Son]

Perceptions and narratives. You hear players saying when they join clubs it just happens for them or sometimes it doesn’t . We had a knack of picking a player with the right attitude, looking for a different challenge and it clicking for them . Everyone wanted Theo to work but it just didn’t . Everyone wished him all the best but no one thought he’d be scoring for fun . Obviously now everyone blames saints for hindering his progress when it’s as simple as not working out for him . 

[blueheaven]

8 hours ago, dave mc said:

Who else are you talking about? 

If we're talking about players who were signed and went backwards, or were quickly cast aside after signing, or were already here and went quickly downhill, I think you can just about take your pick from any of the departures of the last couple of seasons. Luke Jephcott, Eetu Vertainen, John Mahon, Charlie Gilmour, Michael O'Halloran, David Wotherspoon, Callum Hendry, Jacob Butterfield, Ali Crawford, Jahmal Hector-Ingram, Nadir Ciftci, Alex Mitchell, Guy Melamed ... probably others I've forgotten about. Huge sums of money wasted, terrible recruitment strategy, awful coaching.

[Setting Son]

11 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

If we're talking about players who were signed and went backwards, or were quickly cast aside after signing, or were already here and went quickly downhill, I think you can just about take your pick from any of the departures of the last couple of seasons. Luke Jephcott, Eetu Vertainen, John Mahon, Charlie Gilmour, Michael O'Halloran, David Wotherspoon, Callum Hendry, Jacob Butterfield, Ali Crawford, Jahmal Hector-Ingram, Nadir Ciftci, Alex Mitchell, Guy Melamed ... probably others I've forgotten about. Huge sums of money wasted, terrible recruitment strategy, awful coaching.

Some of these players in the champions league now 

[PerthSaint01]

11 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

If we're talking about players who were signed and went backwards, or were quickly cast aside after signing, or were already here and went quickly downhill, I think you can just about take your pick from any of the departures of the last couple of seasons. Luke Jephcott, Eetu Vertainen, John Mahon, Charlie Gilmour, Michael O'Halloran, David Wotherspoon, Callum Hendry, Jacob Butterfield, Ali Crawford, Jahmal Hector-Ingram, Nadir Ciftci, Alex Mitchell, Guy Melamed ... probably others I've forgotten about. Huge sums of money wasted, terrible recruitment strategy, awful coaching.

Would argue many of these were just shite signings anyway, not many of them had fans going “wow, that’s some signing” and then being a disappointment.

[blueheaven]

58 minutes ago, PerthSaint01 said:

Would argue many of these were just shite signings anyway, not many of them had fans going “wow, that’s some signing” and then being a disappointment.

I totally agree, but it all feeds into the same point. We signed a lot of players who weren't good enough, and as a result those players ended up being quickly frozen out whilst tied to expensive contracts. Other players started out well but very quickly went backwards. Just a huge waste of the club's money.

[PerthSaint01]

Aye totally. Feel like you can get behind a signing and actually if it doesn’t work out you’re not too fussed as long as at the time of signing there’s rationale behind it.

Examples for me are likes of Jephcott and Mahon who both at the time appeared good signings.

Whereas from the moment they were announced the likes of Crawford and MacPherson made little to no sense.

[SaintJet]

3 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

I totally agree, but it all feeds into the same point. We signed a lot of players who weren't good enough, and as a result those players ended up being quickly frozen out whilst tied to expensive contracts. Other players started out well but very quickly went backwards. Just a huge waste of the club's money.

Your right of course but that's a very simplistic view to take. Every manager or head of recruitment look at player, evaluate and give them a contract hoping they work out and the success ratio for everyone must be 50% or lower - perhaps a good bit lower.

Our recruitment last couple of seasons was just plain awful and a lot of it looked like a scatter gun approach. It added insult to injury because CD seemed to be given an open cheque book when Tommy couldn't get a packet of Rich Tea for the Canteen!

[garydavidson]

What is interesting with Bair is someone at Motherwell clearly saw something that no Saints fan saw on the pitch and the management team never saw in training, Motherwell couldn't have seen that? He was always praised for his work at training and being an incredible athlete.

In interviews he has said that not playing enough for Saints was a huge issue and perhaps he wasn't getting the guidance: 

"it's the whole reason I came to Motherwell in the first place, the gaffer told me what he was going to do and and he's doing it so the least I could do is repay him with a couple goals, so I'm happy that I'm getting to do that as well."

He has also mentioned working in depth with the video team at Motherwell.

When all things are considered he was scouted by someone for Saints who saw potential. Motherwell have also done the same so the only thing it can point to was the management set up at the time of Davidson and Macca.

[blueheaven]

45 minutes ago, garydavidson said:

What is interesting with Bair is someone at Motherwell clearly saw something that no Saints fan saw on the pitch and the management team never saw in training, Motherwell couldn't have seen that? He was always praised for his work at training and being an incredible athlete.

Apparently he scored quite a few goals in closed doors games. Wonder if one of those was against Motherwell and that was when he caught their eye? Still, it would be an amazing show of faith to give him a two-year deal off the back of that.

 

51 minutes ago, SaintJet said:

Our recruitment last couple of seasons was just plain awful and a lot of it looked like a scatter gun approach. It added insult to injury because CD seemed to be given an open cheque book when Tommy couldn't get a packet of Rich Tea for the Canteen!

I think that point about Tommy Wright getting nothing is what makes all of this doubly infuriating. Just imagine what he might have done in the summer of 2014 if he'd been allowed to follow up on our cup success and prepare for Europe by spending the sort of money we eventually went on to spend on Bair, Mahon, Crawford etc.

Also for all we talk about clubs like Kilmarnock outspending us and being able to bring in someone like Van Veen, they're seeing their spending pay off with their league position, while we settle in for a third successive relegation battle.

[Cagey]

2 hours ago, blueheaven said:

Personally I felt he looked miles out of his depth at Saints, in fact more so than any other player I've ever seen. He just didn't look like he knew what to do or where to go. He seemed to need constant instruction from other players around him, to the extent that it distracted the rest of the team and felt like going down to 10 men when he came off the bench. When he did come on he often barely even got a touch of the ball. He didn't even seem able to use his size to his advantage as he was so poor in the air and was easily nudged off the ball. It still amazes me that Motherwell gave him a two-year contract. There's no way they did that on the basis of watching how he played for Saints.

Hats off to him - he's clearly worked incredibly hard and he's found himself at a team that plays in a way that suits him. No doubt better coaching has had a huge amount to do with it. The coaching at Saints has clearly been awful over the last few years and we saw many players' performance levels go quickly backwards after arriving here (remember when we used to be a club that actually made players better instead of worse?).

But I don't believe for a second that he's suddenly become an incredible player. My feeling is he's a very limited player who is going through a spell of fantastic form and is high on confidence, and well done to him for that, but I'll be very surprised if it lasts and he becomes someone who is a prolific goalscorer in multiple seasons. I think it'll be really interesting to see what he does next.

Perhaps it was being told what to do and where to go that affected him. He seems to have freedom at Well. The run he made from near the halfway line to score the second at the weekend was sublime.

The way he has taken his penalties has shown a guy with confidence.

It may be the way Motherwell play as Van Veen was not a big scorer before or after Well.

[Cagey]

3 hours ago, Setting Son said:

Seemingly was superb in training but couldn’t win a header jumping on his own in a game . Some players take longer to adapt to the Scottish game . Myself, I was saying how can he adapt to the Scottish game when he doesn’t get a run in the team . A sub appeareance on 80 minutes 🥶 every game 

It's quoted that he played 20 odd games or something for Saints but they were mostly 10/20 mins to try and save a game. 

[R.B.B:- Adz]

I can’t help but think many of you are dabbling in a bit of self-deception - others are just talking total pish!

We are absolutely kidding ourselves if we are saying that Theo Bair wasn’t a missed opportunity. He was scouted, bought for six figures, barely played, made to feel like a cult-joke and then tossed overboard.

He was playing and scoring in the MLS. He’s now playing regularly and scoring at Motherwell. But somehow Theo Bair is the problem. Aye right, ok then!

10 goals and 3 assists in as few as 18 starts in the Scottish Premiership is no mean feat for a guy who some on here are claiming looked like a guy who had never seen a football before! Utter cobblers!

[Lt. Col Kojak Slaphead II]

33 minutes ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

I can’t help but think many of you are dabbling in a bit of self-deception - others are just talking total pish!

We are absolutely kidding ourselves if we are saying that Theo Bair wasn’t a missed opportunity. He was scouted, bought for six figures, barely played, made to feel like a cult-joke and then tossed overboard.

He was playing and scoring in the MLS. He’s now playing regularly and scoring at Motherwell. But somehow Theo Bair is the problem. Aye right, ok then!

10 goals and 3 assists in as few as 18 starts in the Scottish Premiership is no mean feat for a guy who some on here are claiming looked like a guy who had never seen a football before! Utter cobblers!

Whilst I don't disagree with a lot of what you have said there, the mention of a six figure fee is way off the mark.  Was not even close to that amount we paid for him. 

[R.B.B:- Adz]

10 minutes ago, Lt. Col Kojak Slaphead II said:

Whilst I don't disagree with a lot of what you have said there, the mention of a six figure fee is way off the mark.  Was not even close to that amount we paid for him. 

£70,000(about half of which was upfront) and with add ons I heard.

[The Real Saints]

1 hour ago, Lt. Col Kojak Slaphead II said:

Whilst I don't disagree with a lot of what you have said there, the mention of a six figure fee is way off the mark.  Was not even close to that amount we paid for him. 

I thought the six figure fee was well-publicised in the media at the time. Not sure it’s too far-fetched considering we offered a six figure fee for Jordan White. 

[blueheaven]

15 minutes ago, The Real Saints said:

I thought the six figure fee was well-publicised in the media at the time. Not sure it’s too far-fetched considering we offered a six figure fee for Jordan White. 

It was reported as $135,000 (in Canadian dollars, I'm assuming), plus add-ons. That converts to about £80,000. 

[blueheaven]

2 hours ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

I can’t help but think many of you are dabbling in a bit of self-deception - others are just talking total pish!

We are absolutely kidding ourselves if we are saying that Theo Bair wasn’t a missed opportunity. He was scouted, bought for six figures, barely played, made to feel like a cult-joke and then tossed overboard.

He was playing and scoring in the MLS. He’s now playing regularly and scoring at Motherwell. But somehow Theo Bair is the problem. Aye right, ok then!

10 goals and 3 assists in as few as 18 starts in the Scottish Premiership is no mean feat for a guy who some on here are claiming looked like a guy who had never seen a football before! Utter cobblers!

I don't think anyone's denying that with some better coaching he could have done better here than he did (he's far from alone in that). But I think it's a bit of a stretch to try to suggest he was doing anything of much note before we signed him. Before he came to Saints he'd been playing in the Norwegian lower leagues where he scored 4 goals in 18 games and only managed a full 90 minutes once. Prior to that he was mainly being used as a sub for Vancouver in the MLS and had scored 3 goals in 39 appearances. The last few months have been the first period of his career in which he could be considered prolific.

 

 

[RandomGuy]

2 hours ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

He was playing and scoring in the MLS.

Was he?

Over the 2 years before he signed he played around 350 minutes of MLS football and scored 1 goal.

He'd been playing in the Norwegian 2nd tier when he signed for us.

Bairs career with us was likely doomed when he was left to rot in the first 6 months of being here. Moments never went for him and he never performed well enough to warrant more in comparison to other strikers, really.

Fair play to him for what he's doing at Motherwell.

[Lt. Col Kojak Slaphead II]

40 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

It was reported as $135,000 (in Canadian dollars, I'm assuming), plus add-ons. That converts to about £80,000. 

Half that figure in pounds and take a wee bit more off it. 

[R.B.B:- Adz]

27 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Was he?

Over the 2 years before he signed he played around 350 minutes of MLS football and scored 1 goal.

He'd been playing in the Norwegian 2nd tier when he signed for us.

Bairs career with us was likely doomed when he was left to rot in the first 6 months of being here. Moments never went for him and he never performed well enough to warrant more in comparison to other strikers, really.

Fair play to him for what he's doing at Motherwell.

Ok you’re right, he’s terrible, we’re no complicit in his poor performances 🙄